Bravery bonus and F2P/Premium

[Calebro]

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to just open elites, or even hard, on my premium account, but what's left for vips then? Couple days earlier access to content? Hah!

Maybe you missed the part where I never once asked for the ability to open on elite. Not once. Not under any circumstances. All I've asked for was hard.
So that leaves you with elite openings, 500 TP per month with double points at times, earlier access to new quests, not having to purchase any of those new quests, and not having to purchase any new races or classes.

So why is it such a problem if premium players get to open hard? Why does this bother you so much?

[Phidius]

You can attempt to justify it any way that you want to, but you're simply wrong.
Premium soloists are excluded. There is nothing else to say on the matter.

Except what Phidius said on page 2..

the subscription-model was an alleged failure, so it doesn't make sense to cater to them at the perceived cost to the new F2P crowd.

Not sure you understood what I was saying - ViP is the "alleged" failure (pay $10-15 per month to play the game) while Premium (F2P who buy something from the store) is the new crowd.

Back on topic: If I have to wait around for some kind soul to join my group to enable me to open all of my "virgin" quests on elite, the reality is that I simply won't be able to maintain a streak... unless I decide to stop playing the game and switch to a "stand around in a public instance all day" play style.

I get enough of that PUGging raids - it's not worth it for a relatively minor benefit.

Therefore, if I cannot open quests on Hard/Elite, as a Premium Player I simply won't get any benefit from the Bravery bonus.

If Turbine's goal is to exclude/discourage F2P/Premium players from taking advantage of this new feature, that's their business. It wouldn't surprise me at all if they made such a bone-headed decision - there's plenty of precedent for that in the last 5 years.

[Aaxeyu]

Eh no. Selling things in the store IS turbines buissness.

This.

Premium should have access to exactly the same things as VIP, the only difference being that premium need to pay a big lump sum instead of a small periodic payment.

All this talk that VIPs should be treated better than premiums who have bought everything is just silly. For turbine it's much better to get a big sum of money today than getting a small sum spread out over years.
If there is imbalance between the cost/value of premium vs VIP it's the prices that should change, not giving options that are only availible to one party. It's bad for buissness.

[Phidius]

...So why is it such a problem if premium players get to open hard? Why does this bother you so much?

My guess is that it's because ViP isn't such a great deal after all, but going to Premium and buying all the races/classes/packs/etc... is a huge investment. Plus it would be "wasting" the money spent on the ViP subscription up to this point. By denying benefits to Premium Players, the ViP feel like they're getting a better deal.

At least, that's how I would feel if I had stayed a ViP. It's not unique to DDO, either - my wife will sometimes try to make herself feel better by making me more miserable than she is. It's human nature, after all.

[Truga]

Maybe you missed the part where I never once asked for the ability to open on elite. Not once. Not under any circumstances. All I've asked for was hard.
So that leaves you with elite openings, 500 TP per month with double points at times, earlier access to new quests, not having to purchase any of those new quests, and not having to purchase any new races or classes.

So why is it such a problem if premium players get to open hard? Why does this bother you so much?

Because, I wouldn't pay $120 a year to be a VIP to only open elite. As I said, everything else is fluff at best.

[Phidius]

Because, I wouldn't pay $120 a year to be a VIP to only open elite. As I said, everything else is fluff at best.

Then you'd be saving money by switching to Premium. You don't want to save money?

[Calebro]

Because, I wouldn't pay $120 a year to be a VIP to only open elite. As I said, everything else is fluff at best.

Then why are you doing it?
If everything else is fluff, and the only perk is opening elite, why are you paying $120/year now?
The only thing that would change is that you'd be able to open 1 tier higher than a f2p/preemie, instead of 2 tiers. If that's such a miniscule incentive to you, then why are you paying for it now?

Don't take your frustrations out on everyone else.

[Truga]

Then you'd be saving money by switching to Premium. You don't want to save money?

I want to save money. I'm already premium, because at the moment opening elite doesn't do anything for me other than farming favor a bit faster. I might consider going VIP if elite had the xp bonus it has on lama.

Turbine wants to make money off me though! They don't want me to save money while playing DDO!

[gloopygloop]

People readily forget that Turbine is running a business, not a charity. F2P is only an entry point. I personally see absolutely nothing wrong with this model. It promotes purchasing a feature of the game that is not required at all.

As long as that feature were actually available for purchase, I'd agree entirely.

After all, we don't have to pay 95 TP each time we put something in/take something out of the Shared Bank. Turbine could do the same thing for Hard or Elite unlock. But instead, they decided to get greedy and went with an option to purchase that is barely worthwhile even with Llama-land points.

[andbr22]

ok I am starting to understand system, so to get bonus you CAN'T run quest on normal (very much in vip favor).

This tickle me a bit, that streak can be "recharged" only by new quest. Why it cannot be recharged by all completions as long as you dont get -25%for overleveling quest (3 levels above).
For me it won't change a thing - sure maybe I will join xp farm group of 4-6 GH quests, 1-2 vale quests, 1 RR quest (so I don't get much of streak). But for sure I won't find / create these groups for example Amarath (or other most difficult content: "Elite EtK need opener" - sounds cool doesn't it?)

[Uska]

I've also suggested earlier that TRs could be given this benefit instead of account type; such as heroes (34 pt builds) can open up to hard difficulty, legends (36 pt builds) can open all difficulties. I think that would work for everyone, f2p or p2p if your leveling a TR toon you have access to it.

I like giving people an option to gain opening on hard but elite should stay only VIP

[Uska]

That wouldn't solve the problem for premium players at all, unless they decided to TR.
I'l be perfectly honest.... I couldn't care less about the f2p players. They haven't spent a single penny to help support the game, so I haven't spent a single thought caring whether they feel butt hurt about something. But premium players are getting screwed by this new "bonus" the way it is now.
Changing the opening system to allow hard opens by premium players would fix this issue, while keeping the VIPs slightly ahead.
I think this is the way to go.

This sounds fair

[Razcar]

Then why are you doing it?
If everything else is fluff, and the only perk is opening elite, why are you paying $120/year now?
The only thing that would change is that you'd be able to open 1 tier higher than a f2p/preemie, instead of 2 tiers. If that's such a miniscule incentive to you, then why are you paying for it now?

Don't take your frustrations out on everyone else.

If Turbine are going to keep the Subscription model around it has to have some point to it. If Premium = VIP with the miniscule difference of Hard/Elite opening, like you want, then there is no point. Instead, VIP actually needs more advantages, or if they would do like you say, other advantages. Or they should just get rid of it.

[Dendrix]

But some people are excluded.
You don't seem to be considering that many people which would otherwise be taking advantage of this new feature will not be able to because they're running solo.

Don't run solo.
Or go VIP. Being able to open on hard/elite 1st time is a VIP feature.

[Phidius]

If Turbine are going to keep the Subscription model around it has to have some point to it. If Premium = VIP with the miniscule difference of Hard/Elite opening, like you want, then there is no point. Instead, VIP actually needs more advantages, or if they would do like you say, other advantages. Or they should just get rid of it.

You mean, like the ability to play the entire game for $15 for one month instead of spending > $100?

I think ViP is the model for those with a short-game-attention span - those people who buy a game, play the hell out of it, then leave and never look back.

Those who are invested in the game should seriously consider "buying" it instead of renting it.

[Razcar]

You mean, like the ability to play the entire game for $15 for one month instead of spending > $100?

I think ViP is the model for those with a short-game-attention span - those people who buy a game, play the hell out of it, then leave and never look back.

Those who are invested in the game should seriously consider "buying" it instead of renting it.

First, I think the vast majority of the one-month players are going F2P, not sub. With that exception, I don't know who the typical VIP customer is - and it seems to me that Turbine doesn't either. I'm a subscriber and I have paid maybe $350 all in all the last two years. You would think Turbine would want me to keep paying that much, but it seems instead that they prefer me to pay less - $100 once and then a fiver or two spread out. Weird reasoning, if you ask me.

Second, and personally, I think VIP should be "better" than Premium. I think the cost, and quality of the product should go F2P < Premium < VIP. Paying $120 a year, plus a little TP, should give more than paying $120 once, plus a little TP.

I saw that Turbine are looking for a new marketing manager. Much needed I say, they need to sort out what it is they are selling.

[MartinusWyllt]

... "Hey can a VIP group with me so I can open elite, I don't want to loose my bravery bonus." *puke* While it's quite obvious the outspoken majority of the forum may be VIPs in favor of this change and want to feel some return for their paid subscription, I'd wager that the vast majority of players both in numbers and revenue are premium....

You lose nothing you have now by ignoring this bonus mechanism. I honestly thought it was a joke when I saw the first post with the "bravery" bonus.

To reiterate: you lose nothing continuing as you already are. You can't lose a bonus you never had. If you want that bonus at your leisure then you'll resubscribe. For you and everyone else speculating about Turbine's business...yes, you'd have to wager, we can see no actual revenue numbers, so speculating what is "best" for Turbine is no wiser than spitting into the wind. What you (and everyone else positing what is best for Turbine's business) are really saying is what you want best for you.

[valharan01]

You can attempt to justify it any way that you want to, but you're simply wrong.
Premium soloists are excluded. There is nothing else to say on the matter.

You are excluding yourself by not paying a monthly subscription. You do not pay monthly you do not get the option to open it yourself. I love the idea and am glad that it is more convenient for VIP but not impossible to access for Premium. Deal with a little extra hassle to get the same rewards as a VIP or just pony up the cash and pay monthly. You have a choice it just is not one you "like".

This new mechanic makes me want to keep my subscription even more, mission accomplished Turbine and thank you for a nice perk for paying monthly. There is nothing else to say on the matter.

[FastTaco]

Why do VIP's defend Elite unlock ability so much, there are MANY other ways VIP's could get perks... but are not implented at all.

VIP's could theoretically have:
5-10% Increased Plat from selling trash loot
+1 or +2 to Loot
+5% VIP XP bonus
Slightly increased raid loot/tome drop rates
Etc...

I wouldn't mind if VIP players got small bonuses like this, but when premium players spend money they should get the same gameplay options. VIP get everything for small payments over time, premium players invest up front.

Whats the difference?

There really isn't one except the method of payment, and the title given to these payment methods. Infact a premium player who buys everything upfront is putting themselves at much more risk, how do they know they will continue to enjoy the game down the road after purchasing?

Premium Costs
Only 2 additional character slots(6 total, 4 less then VIP) - 1190
shared bank(not including additional slots) - 1495
Major Packs - 8895
All Packs - 14395
Races&Classes(Not including Drow/FVS) - 3785

Total - 15365 - 20865 TP's or about $150-200.

[MartinusWyllt]

...
I wouldn't mind if VIP players got small bonuses like this, but when premium players spend money they should get the same gameplay options..

You have the same gameplay options, just not as conveniently available.

Comparing everything you have to buy as premium to have all the VIP content is, I suggest, doing premium wrong.