Bravery bonus and F2P/Premium

[BOgre]

Ignorant, really?

Yes, I should be valued higher. All VIP's should.

Agree with last point.

Yup, that statement is ignorant. Not like "man, you're ignant!" But like, you are uninformed, misguided, and wrong.

Unfortunately, Turbine can't blanket 'respect' on Premium players (I'm one) because there is a such a wide window of what constitutes Premium. Should a Premie who's bought one $5 TP bundle get the same 'respect' as a Premie who's bought the whole game, races, classes, banks, etc.? With VIPs it's a much easier choice, but still not clear cut, in that a VIP can be so for only 3 months, but at least he or she will only be getting the VIP perks for as along as they remain a subscriber, whereas a Premie remains a premie, with all the advantages of Premium, FOREVER, even with just that initial $5 purchase. One would have to know how many premies keep buying, for how long, how much they spend/month or year, and do the math from there to see if giving 'respect' to ALL premies balances out with the perks...
I for one intended to only buy that first $5 pack, in order to unlock char slots, Auctions, and plat cap, but have since spent $100, and I'm 8 months in. That's more than a VIP would have spent by now, so by most VIP's own logic I should be getting ALL the perks of a paying customer. Now, granted, my spending will start to drop off now that I there are only a few things left for me to buy, so when should my perks start to fall off??
That's the trouble with this kind of biz model. It's not equal, so there just can't be equality. VIPs will always feel entitled based on their subscription, Premiums will always feel the same way based on their $s spent. F2Ps will always feel left out and hard done by despite playing for free...

[Hokiewa]

Yup, that statement is ignorant. Not like "man, you're ignant!" But like, you are uninformed, misguided, and wrong.

Then your "but have since spent $100, and I'm 8 months in. That's more than a VIP would have spent by now, so by most VIP's own logic I should be getting ALL the perks of a paying customer." is of course also ignorant. $105 ≠ $120 which is of course what VIPs pay if they do not sign up for a package deal.

Just saying.

[Sparkyb1981]

Then your "but have since spent $100, and I'm 8 months in. That's more than a VIP would have spent by now, so by most VIP's own logic I should be getting ALL the perks of a paying customer." is of course also ignorant. $105 =/= $120 which is of course what VIPs pay if they do not sign up for a package deal.

Just saying.

my quote was not meant to sound ignorant. But it seems from this thread that Premium players are not satisfied with a free game.

[Hokiewa]

my quote was not meant to sound ignorant. But it seems from this thread that Premium players are not satisfied with a free game.

I wasn't referring to you though.

[FastTaco]

Why are people complaining that Premium players deserve this too. NO! I am a VIP, and would hate to see a non-VIP get similar perks. It's called "V.I.P." for a reason people.

I hope you can make a better argument then that, seriously?

If I gave my crappy car a very good name, would you buy it?

All VIP is is a name for a payment method. It doesn't actually make you an important person, sorry if that hurts your feelings... but many premium players pay just as much!

It was the F2P/Premium models that saved the game anyway, ah well.

[Chai]

Thats all VIP is in this case, a name for a payment method. It doesn't actually make you an important person, sorry if that hurts your feelings... but many premium players pay just as much!

Pay regularly on a schedule to support the game, and benefit by it. Its a tier level system, where people can make the informed decision based on what they do and do not disire out of what is offered. Opening on elite first is the best VIP perk IMO and giving that one up would create a situation where theres really no reason to be VIP.

If I gave my crappy car a very good name, would you buy it?

After weighing the pros and cons of each, paying for the crappy one and then demanding the features of the good one is absurd. Want VIP benefits? Go VIP.

[Calebro]

my quote was not meant to sound ignorant. But it seems from this thread that Premium players are not satisfied with a free game.

That's because Premium players aren't playing a free game.
Free to Play players are playing a free game.
Premium players are those that have spent money on the game, many of whom spend more than some VIPs do. That's where the ignorance comes into play.

[gloopygloop]

my quote was not meant to sound ignorant. But it seems from this thread that Premium players are not satisfied with a free game.

It seems from this thread that a fair number of people in this thread don't understand what "Premium" means if they keep calling it "free".

[darksol23]

You cannot lose something you never had in the first place. When this bonus arrives you can still avail yourself of it, it will just take more effort than it will take a subscriber. This is part of what a premium player has chosen.

No it is not. No premium players I know of went premium with the understanding they would have to do more "work" to achieve the same result in-game as a subscriber.

It already is like this. How far can you get if your payment model is free? Is there any favor rewards you are denied? Are they class/race =>gameplay choices you are denied? How about if you spent $6.50 and are now "premium"? Should that entitle you to open on hard/elite?

Game Content != Game Mechanics

[Gremmlynn]

Why are people complaining that Premium players deserve this too. NO! I am a VIP, and would hate to see a non-VIP get similar perks. It's called "V.I.P." for a reason people. Most were playing long before F2P and it's about time we get a good bonus. The whole idea is too encourage more people to become VIP, seeing its many advantages. That's great you spent $5 and want all the perks that someone that pays month after month has earned.

Yes, they are called VIP for a reason. Turbine wanted to make them feel special.

And no, spending $5 on the games once shouldn't allow premium plan customers the ability to open elite. But paying ?,000 TP once should unless Turbine wants to push players more towards VIP.

[Aaxeyu]

my quote was not meant to sound ignorant. But it seems from this thread that Premium players are not satisfied with a free game.

How can that not sound ignorant? You don't even know what being a premium player means!

[Calebro]

I'll even amend my earlier request for F2P = normal, Prem = hard, VIP = elite.

Make it available for players to purchase the ability to open quests on Hard. Most of the premium players would buy it. It still leaves Elite for the VIPs, just like my earlier suggestion, while also making the Bravery Bonus available to premium players and the occasional F2P.
But this way Turbine can make a few more dollars off of it and the VIPs can keep their elitist attitude.
Pun completely intended.

[FastTaco]

Pay regularly on a schedule to support the game, and benefit by it. Its a tier level system, where people can make the informed decision based on what they do and do not disire out of what is offered. Opening on elite first is the best VIP perk IMO and giving that one up would create a situation where theres really no reason to be VIP.

As sooty said previously, its not a small 'perk' or benefit but rather a core-game mechanic that is given to VIP. It affects character progression and leveling, more so if the bravery bonus goes on live in its current form.

I named what would be in my opinion appropriate 'perks' in my earlier post, which I believe many would VIP would love. Small bonuses to XP, plat, loot, etc... all sound like a great perk and does not affect premium players as much... imho.

From a marketing standpoint, advertising these kinds of bonuses would get more people interesting in VIP aswell.

[BOgre]

Then your "but have since spent $100, and I'm 8 months in. That's more than a VIP would have spent by now, so by most VIP's own logic I should be getting ALL the perks of a paying customer." is of course also ignorant. $105 ≠ $120 which is of course what VIPs pay IF they do not sign up for a package deal.

Just saying.

VIP=3months/$30 or $10/month
me=8months/$100 or $12.50/month

Your IF negates my ignorance

[MartinusWyllt]

You cannot lose something you never had in the first place. When this bonus arrives you can still avail yourself of it, it will just take more effort than it will take a subscriber. This is part of what a premium player has chosen.

No it is not. No premium players I know of went premium with the understanding they would have to do more "work" to achieve the same result in-game as a subscriber.

Which is exactly what I said, you have to do more "work" to achieve the same result="it will just take more effort"...in this case to maintain this stupid bonus. You can have this bonus exactly like any subscriber can have this bonus it will just take more "work".

[theboatman]

The new feature is available to anyone, even solo f2p characters.

Anyone can open hard or elite, all they have to do is buy an unlock from the store.

Complaining that Premium accounts can't benefit from the bonus because they cannot unlock elite by default is like saying that Premiums get the short end of XP pots from the store, since VIP's get 'free' points every month to buy their 'free' xp pots; there is still an opportunity cost, those that value it will pay the price.

As for buying store unlocks, I still think they are on the high side of appropriately priced, but I understand why they do it. But under no circumstance can I ever stand behind selling a blanket elite unlock of any sort in the store. DDO has a very reasonable subscription rate for those that choose to support it in that manner. There is no reason to remove one (if the only, as many people assert) of the perks of a subscription.

And while I feel for players that cannot subscribe due to billing issues, the only sort of store unlock that I could ever support to keep this game from slipping even farther into the pay to win category would be a character only hard unlock. Good for one life only. For most people, VIP ends up being less expensive if they are concerned about xp/hour and etc, but for those that may not play quite as often but are still very concerned about xp/hour and maximizing their play time, a hard character unlock for that life lets them take advantage of the Bravery bonus (although not at the highest tier an elite unlocker would.) without the potential abuse of folks farming favor faster/easier with a permanent unlock.

All the hard unlock would do is keep you from having to run normal first, which most people concerned with xp will do later anyway, and most importantly is removed when your favor is reset (ie upon TR) to prevent fast efficient favor farming on mules/alts/etc ie abuse of the favor system. Ultimately this type of unlock would be more expensive than a VIP account on the short term, but less expensive than individual hard/elite unlocks for each quest.

[BOgre]

the only sort of store unlock that I could ever support to keep this game from slipping even farther into the pay to win category would be a character only hard unlock. Good for one life only. For most people, VIP ends up being less expensive if they are concerned about xp/hour and etc, but for those that may not play quite as often but are still very concerned about xp/hour and maximizing their play time, a hard character unlock for that life lets them take advantage of the Bravery bonus (although not at the highest tier an elite unlocker would.) without the potential abuse of folks farming favor faster/easier with a permanent unlock.

All the hard unlock would do is keep you from having to run normal first, which most people concerned with xp will do later anyway, and most importantly is removed when your favor is reset (ie upon TR) to prevent fast efficient favor farming on mules/alts/etc ie abuse of the favor system. Ultimately this type of unlock would be more expensive than a VIP account on the short term, but less expensive than individual hard/elite unlocks for each quest.

sounds completely fair and equitable for all. /signed

[Caine33]

Been here since the beginning as a VIP and have seen these doom scenarios with every release.

Give the Premies a bone...let them unlock favor by TR - Hero gets Hard, Legend gets Elite.

Don't see an issue with this.

Noticed quite a few people equating being VIP to being Dumb...Not true, it's not dumb, just lazy. I actually went away on business for 6 months and forgot my account was still active

Based on what is being said by Premie players, Turbine should shut the whole VIP thing down, as it is a failed experiment (apparently...can't remember who said to quote, but did give a +1 for the chuckle). And by just giving away another VIP feature without replacing they might as well do that.

just my 2cents.

[gloopygloop]

The new feature is available to anyone, even solo f2p characters.

Anyone can open hard or elite, all they have to do is buy an unlock from the store.

Complaining that Premium accounts can't benefit from the bonus because they cannot unlock elite by default is like saying that Premiums get the short end of XP pots from the store, since VIP's get 'free' points every month to buy their 'free' xp pots; there is still an opportunity cost, those that value it will pay the price.

Actually, it would be like complaining that a Premium player had to pay TP 95 each time they wanted to use their Shared Bank.

DDO does have a reasonable subscription rate. And they also have a reasonable rate for the purchase of individual adventure packs. And they've been actively encouraging people to take advantage of the premium model.

I'd just like to see a reasonably priced account option ($15? $20? $25?) that allows people to open adventures on Hard or Elite as a Premium, paying customer. All I'm asking for is the ability to give Turbine more money. Allowing Premium players to buy something isn't hurting VIP players. Why do you care what other people choose to spend their money on?

[Hokiewa]

VIP=3months/$30 or $10/month
me=8months/$100 or $12.50/month

Your IF negates my ignorance

Again, it's not $10/month if you pay monthly. You can't invalidate my "IF" when you exclusively lumped every VIP into "I've spent more then them in an 8 month period." How hard is that to understand?