Bravery bonus and F2P/Premium

[Calebro]

Or here's another one for you.

Madfloyd since you wanted to help TRs get xp easier than having to run so many normal difficulties all the time why dont you allow all TRs (only TR), premium included, to be able to open on elite.

Great suggestion.

[IamSooty]

If a permanent hard/elite unlock was ever released, the situation would only compound. Sure Turbine would get a very short term payment from me to buy the amenity, but my free tp (from favor) intake would be even greater than it is now; I would literally never have to spend another real life unit of currency while still being able to purchase anything I wanted. Keeping it on a character only basis that did not persist through TR would allow me to benefit from faster/more efficient leveling, while still netting Turbine some real life dollars every now and then.

To chime in on this paragraph...

Here's a question to all Premium Players. Would any of you spend money you would not have otherwise spent to make use of this bravery bonus, namely, by subscribing just to get this bonus? Presumably, the answer is no, because if you really wanted to get more XP by paying money, XP pots are already in the store.

It stands to reason that if Turbine's intention here is not to make more money by making subscription better. It wouldn't work, given the irony I pointed out earlier, given all the reasons that have already been stated. In fact, the release notes seem to suggest that Turbine wants to make it easier for everyone to level up, not just VIPs. Does that seem incomprehensible, as if Turbine were shooting themselves in their own foot by making the game less grindy? No! That would be too quick a conclusion.

There is no simple correlation here, and I don't think anyone can predict whether people will play the game more or less given how fast they progress in the game. But if you push this idea to a logical extreme (I sure love this move...), I can tell you that if I levelled too slowly I won't be playing this game as much because I would be bored to death by the lack of progression, and if I levelled up way too fast I might probably end up not enjoying the early/mid-game content enough and get bored of the endgame content such that I also would play the game less. The key for Turbine is balance, which should be modelled around the average/median player experience and not around arbitrary player groups (e.g. VIPs vs Premium players).

If Turbine cares about real life dollars it will want to make better gameplay experience, instead of being cold and calculative. Thankfully, as I've said, the release notes seem to suggest that it is not their intention to be so.

[MartinusWyllt]

... it really SHOULD be available to everyone? Please?
Thanks.

You are still disingenuously suggesting that this is a VIP-only bonus. At the moment it would be VIP-convenient, but it is not VIP-only.

Selling account-wide hard/elite unlocks would be fine, or TR-only unlocks as suggested as this ultimately really only benefits TRs, right? I can get to 20 w/o Nx/H/E grinding just fine and still avoid quests I don't like.

But to continue to suggest that this is a VIP-only bonus is to misrepresent what the bonus is as stated so far and sounds like the whining you say subscribers are guilty of in this thread.

[Calebro]

You are still disingenuously suggesting that this is a VIP-only bonus. At the moment it would be VIP-convenient, but it is not VIP-only.

Reading within context FTW, dude.
The quote by a Dev that was contained within the post you quoted specifically mentions a blurb about playing solo. Premium soloists are excluded from the Bravery Bonus.
Hence, it is a VIP only perk, although it wasn't meant to be.

[MrkGrismer]

If the bravery bonus is meant to help TRs then I really think it should be 1 TR unlocks open on hard and 2 TR unlocks open on elite. Perhaps with an added favor requirement (or a favor unlock).

Of course, I haven't TR'd any characters yet so from me this is kind of 'blah, blah, blah'.

[Gremmlynn]

This is an inherent problem with the current model. The best I see to avoid this is to put a minimum level on the premium unlocks. If we had to level veteran characters to atleast level 8 before any quests were unlocked on higher difficulties it would deter any 100 favor->delete->repeat farming using the premium unlocks.

Why would anyone who is so desperate to save money buy an expensive favor unlock to do it when 2 boxing a second account with the required quests already unlocked on elite is free? Also, if they did buy the unlock wouldn't Turbine still be coming out ahead on the deal?

[IamSooty]

You are still disingenuously suggesting that this is a VIP-only bonus. At the moment it would be VIP-convenient, but it is not VIP-only.

Selling account-wide hard/elite unlocks would be fine, or TR-only unlocks as suggested as this ultimately really only benefits TRs, right? I can get to 20 w/o Nx/H/E grinding just fine and still avoid quests I don't like.

But to continue to suggest that this is a VIP-only bonus is to misrepresent what the bonus is as stated so far and sounds like the whining you say subscribers are guilty of in this thread.

Take it easy over this 'misrepresentation'! No one's forcing you to read all phrases that refer to bravery bonus as being a VIP perk as "Bravery Bonus is VIPs only!". Let me help you with this, everytime you read something about "VIP-only bonus", pretend that they're talking ONLY about the convenience of being to utilize the Bravery Bonus without having to find a hard/elite opener.

Or maybe I'm just whining about whining about whining about whining.

[FastTaco]

To chime in on this paragraph...

Here's a question to all Premium Players. Would any of you spend money you would not have otherwise spent to make use of this bravery bonus, namely, by subscribing just to get this bonus? Presumably, the answer is no, because if you really wanted to get more XP by paying money, XP pots are already in the store.

It stands to reason that if Turbine's intention here is not to make more money by making subscription better. It wouldn't work, given the irony I pointed out earlier, given all the reasons that have already been stated. In fact, the release notes seem to suggest that Turbine wants to make it easier for everyone to level up, not just VIPs. Does that seem incomprehensible, as if Turbine were shooting themselves in their own foot by making the game less grindy? No! That would be too quick a conclusion.

There is no simple correlation here, and I don't think anyone can predict whether people will play the game more or less given how fast they progress in the game. But if you push this idea to a logical extreme (I sure love this move...), I can tell you that if I levelled too slowly I won't be playing this game as much because I would be bored to death by the lack of progression, and if I levelled up way too fast I might probably end up not enjoying the early/mid-game content enough and get bored of the endgame content such that I also would play the game less. The key for Turbine is balance, which should be modelled around the average/median player experience and not around arbitrary player groups (e.g. VIPs vs Premium players).

If Turbine cares about real life dollars it will want to make better gameplay experience, instead of being cold and calculative. Thankfully, as I've said, the release notes seem to suggest that it is not their intention to be so.

Agreed, the problem is with 2+ TR'ed characters requiring over 4 million XP.

I think first live characters will level too quickly with this change, and so might characters on their first TR. What we needed was an XP balance per quest, a change to TR XP and instead we got a flat bonus across the board to XP which will do more harm then good.

I also see in the future many more 'Need Hard/Elite opener' LFM's.

[MartinusWyllt]

Reading within context FTW, dude.
The quote by a Dev that was contained within the post you quoted specifically mentions a blurb about playing solo. Premium soloists are excluded from the Bravery Bonus.
Hence, it is a VIP only perk, although it wasn't meant to be.

You can still open on elite by yourself if you're in a group with someone able to open on elite and they don't have to enter ==> yes, it is possible to have this bonus as a premium solo player, it just requires a little help from either your 2nd premium account or a friend....or just continue to play as you can right now.

Therefore still not VIP-only even if you're focused on solo play. It just requires a little help or a 2nd account. You could still bravery-bonus your way around the harbor just fine.

[FastTaco]

Why would anyone who is so desperate to save money buy an expensive favor unlock to do it when 2 boxing a second account with the required quests already unlocked on elite is free? Also, if they did buy the unlock wouldn't Turbine still be coming out ahead on the deal?

I'm not the one saying it would be a problem, I was replying with suggestions to those who think it may be to ease their minds and help this become a reality for premium players.

[Calebro]

OK, let me break it down for you.

And more ironic is that it was never conceived as a VIP perk.

irony
incongruity between what is expected to be and what actually is, or a situation or result showing such incongruity

So what MadFloyd, the designer of the Bravery Bonus, has just stated is that he did not create said bonus to be a VIP only perk. However, he prefaced that statement with a claim that it was ironic.
Read the definition of irony again, my friend.

You may not think that it is a VIP only perk, but even though he didn't intent it to be that way, the designer certainly does.
The designer's opinions on the matter trump yours.

[MartinusWyllt]

...
I also see in the future many more 'Need Hard/Elite opener' LFM's.

I don't know about you, but I see LFMs looking for elite openers all the time, that increased when opening on elite became a subscriber benefit.

[Aelonwy]

I'm premium, I've bought all races, all classes but one, and all adv packs but two... this bravery bonus that works best for VIP's doesn't bother me one iota.

IMHO:
1) Everyone (F2P, premium and VIP) will benefit from the new completion bonuses. I.E. 25% N, 40% H, 80% E versus previous (?) 25% N, 25% H, 50% E. Net benefit of 45% more XP to complete once on each difficulty above casual.
2) VIP's needed more benefits.
3) Premium and F2P can still benefit from the bravery bonus with a friendly VIP opener or just someone in the group who has previously completed that quest. (There ARE friendly VIP's out there.)

While it would be nice for premium to receive Open on Hard or at least a very high favor option for unlocking Open on Hard on their particular server... its not absolutely necessary.

Just my opinion.

[MartinusWyllt]

...
So what MadFloyd, the designer of the Bravery Bonus, has just stated is that he did not create said bonus to be a VIP only perk. However, he prefaced that statement with a claim that it was ironic....

The irony of the perception of the VIP-only perk is from people like you. It is not exclusive to subscribers. It does exclude your chosen playstyle which is not likely representative of all premium or f2p players. He knows it is not a VIP-only perk as he designed it not to be. You create the irony.

[Calebro]

He knows it is not a VIP-only perk as he designed it not to be. You create the irony.

I wasn't the one that called it ironic. He was.
If he knew what you claim he knows then he wouldn't have called it ironic.

The fact tha he called it ironic changes the statement from "I didn't create it as a VIP perk" to instead mean "I didn't create it to be a VIP perk, but it ended up being so anyway."
That's what the word ironic does to the statement. That's the irony that he spoke of.

[mahiro37]

$7.99 should not get you enough TP to buy an Hard/Elite unlock, we aren't suggesting it be given freely for being a premium player.

I was primarily mentioning it for the people that do not differentiate between those Premiums who have only bought a few points and those who have bought almost all of the content. The ones that feel that Premiums should get Hard unlock.

That's kind of the problem really. You have people who have bought a few points to try out a class and they are Premiums.

Then you have those who have been Premiums forever and have spent a whole lot of money on most of the content.

The former do not deserve the same perks as VIP whereas the latter certainly do.

[FastTaco]

I'm premium, I've bought all races, all classes but one, and all adv packs but two... this bravery bonus that works best for VIP's doesn't bother me one iota.

IMHO:
1) Everyone (F2P, premium and VIP) will benefit from the new completion bonuses. I.E. 25% N, 40% H, 80% E versus previous (?) 25% N, 25% H, 50% E. Net benefit of 45% more XP to complete once on each difficulty above casual.

This is a bad flat increase to XP across the board, first life and first TR characters will level too fast. I believe noone has suggested this was needed. The problem was with double TR.

2) VIP's needed more benefits.
3) Premium and F2P can still benefit from the bravery bonus with a friendly VIP opener or just someone in the group who has previously completed that quest. (There ARE friendly VIP's out there.)

There are many other benefits VIP's can receive that are not implemented, in the form of a small bonus to XP/Loot/Tomes/vendored trash Plat/etc.

While it would be nice for premium to receive Open on Hard or at least a very high favor option for unlocking Open on Hard on their particular server... its not absolutely necessary.

If Bravery Bonus goes live in its current form, then yes it is absolutley necessary... imho.

in red

[elricken]

So as I am someone who does alot of trs and likes to maximize my xp/min I'll stop buying tp packages on an irregular basis and instead buy a sub.

Fine with me, if they wanna encourage VIP I'm great with it. Freemium is a very good deal so I see no issue.

[Chai]

VIP=3months/$30 or $10/month
me=8months/$100 or $12.50/month

Your IF negates my ignorance

This assumes of course, that VIP doesnt spend money other than their sub.

In either case, more money paid in doesnt = specific benefits. Choosing a specific tier level payment method does.

As sooty said previously, its not a small 'perk' or benefit but rather a core-game mechanic that is given to VIP. It affects character progression and leveling, more so if the bravery bonus goes on live in its current form.

I named what would be in my opinion appropriate 'perks' in my earlier post, which I believe many would VIP would love. Small bonuses to XP, plat, loot, etc... all sound like a great perk and does not affect premium players as much... imho.

From a marketing standpoint, advertising these kinds of bonuses would get more people interesting in VIP aswell.

Here we have a tier level system, with advertised benefits. Players are allowed to make an informed decision between two different payment methods. People can do the research until the cows come home on what they like and dont like about each plan, but at the end of the day, players who want to be able to use any 'P2P" content have to choose a payment method. Choosing one, then asking for benefits only offered to the other one, simply isnt fair. Its obvious that those who chose premium feel they are benefitting from their choice, or they wouldnt have chosen premium in the first place. There are pros and cons, adequately outlined when that choice was made, and they chose. I also chose according to what I thought would benefit me as far as the best payment method and acquired perks, after weighing the pros and cons. I do not appreciate people trying to renegotiate what my perks should be, so they can take advantage of something that weighed heavily on my decision to choose VIP over premium. The perks were outlined when we made the choice. Want the benefits of VIP? Go VIP. Take the pros and the cons. Its only fair.

[MartinusWyllt]

...changes the statement from "I didn't create it as a VIP perk" to instead mean "I didn't create it to be a VIP perk, but it ended up being so anyway."
...

More like "I didn't create it to be a VIP perk, but enough players think of it like that just from the initial feedback that it ended up being like a VIP perk."

This satisfies irony. "I meant it like this but people think of it like that therefore it looks like I meant it to be like that."