Bravery bonus and F2P/Premium

[gloopygloop]

I bought 10 Elite-opener bells from the DDO store on my Llama-land account and tried out the new XP bonus.

Even though I ran 5 quests in a row, I still did not get any XP bonus. I was sad.

I haven't bug reported this yet, but I will do so tomorrow morning.

[Stormanne]

Not getting the bonus is losing something.

No, it is not. To lose something, you have to have had it first.

bo·nus
   [boh-nuhs] Show IPA
noun, plural -nus·es.
1.
something given or paid over and above what is due.
2.
a sum of money granted or given to an employee, a returned soldier, etc., in addition to regular pay, usually in appreciation for work done, length of service, accumulated favors, etc.
3.
something free, as an extra dividend, given by a corporation to a purchaser of its securities.
4.
a premium paid for a loan, contract, etc.
5.
something extra or additional given freely: Every purchaser of a pound of coffee received a box of cookies as a bonus.

[waterboytkd]

You're not losing anything. You're just not getting the "bonus". And a bonus is just that. You'll still get everything you got before, you just won't get the extra stuff without signing back up for VIP...which is as it should be.

Here's the thing: MadFloyd has said that this isn't supposed to be a VIP perk. It's supposed to be available to all players. Why? Because it's supposed to alleviate the grindiness of TRing. And not just VIPs TR.

Sure, we're not losing anything. But we're stuck with the old way. You know, the old way that's bad enough to warrant Turbine trying to give us a fix for it. Except, this new fix doesn't really work for non-VIPs, not without outside assistance. So, non-VIPs are still looking at the same bleak experience that is the legend TR. You know, that same bleak experience that has kept people from doing TRs because it's just not fun. Which is money not gained by Turbine.

[Morosy]

Here's the thing: MadFloyd has said that this isn't supposed to be a VIP perk. It's supposed to be available to all players. Why? Because it's supposed to alleviate the grindiness of TRing. And not just VIPs TR.

Sure, we're not losing anything. But we're stuck with the old way. You know, the old way that's bad enough to warrant Turbine trying to give us a fix for it. Except, this new fix doesn't really work for non-VIPs, not without outside assistance. So, non-VIPs are still looking at the same bleak experience that is the legend TR. You know, that same bleak experience that has kept people from doing TRs because it's just not fun. Which is money not gained by Turbine.

Has there been other mention of it by a dev other than what's in the release notes? Because looking just at the notes I'm not seeing it the way you guys see it.

Edit: Nvm, I wasn't seeing it because it was in the Trap Damage thread lol. But I see what you guys are saying now.

[Aaxeyu]

No, it is not. To lose something, you have to have had it first.

You're wrong. Take loss of profit as example.

[Xaxx]

Yea, that is what they should do. It will kinda screw premium players otherwise.

So its alright to put this through to screw vips then????

Its not alright to screw premiums.... who are one time investments... but its alright to screw the vips... who are a constant cashflow.

Does not compute.

[Aaxeyu]

So its alright to put this through to screw vips then????

Its not alright to screw premiums.... who are one time investments... but its alright to screw the vips... who are a constant cashflow.

Does not compute.

At what point does VIPs get screwed exactly?

[protokon]

A simple fix would be to allow single TR's (hero) to open hard and lower difficulties. double TR's (Legends) to open all quests up to elite. win-win for everyone I think.

[gloopygloop]

At what point does VIPs get screwed exactly?

I understand his post perfectly. I hear the exact same thing from my 3 year old and my 5 year old all the time. If I give something to my daughter, then my son claims that he's being punished. If I give something to my son, then my daughter complains that I'm not being fair.

Edit: after reading what I posted, I realize that this could sound like an insult, but it really isn't. I really do have a 3 year old daughter and a 5 year old son and they really do say exactly that when I give something to one of them and I don't give it to the other.

[SaIamander]

A simple fix would be to allow single TR's (hero) to open hard and lower difficulties. double TR's (Legends) to open all quests up to elite. win-win for everyone I think.

/signed

[jjflanigan]

I understand his post perfectly. I hear the exact same thing from my 3 year old and my 5 year old all the time. If I give something to my daughter, then my son claims that he's being punished. If I give something to my son, then my daughter complains that I'm not being fair.

Edit: after reading what I posted, I realize that this could sound like an insult, but it really isn't. I really do have a 3 year old daughter and a 5 year old son and they really do say exactly that when I give something to one of them and I don't give it to the other.

It's not at all like that. It would be like you charging your 5 year old son $10 a month to let him have extra ice cream. Then a while later you decide that your 3 year old daughter should get the extra ice cream without having to give you $10 a month, but you still keep charging your son the same fee for the same ice cream.

Right now the open on elite is a perk that VIPs already get. If you then allow the F2P people to have it, you actually are taking away something from the VIPS.

[mystafyi]

it bothers me that I wont be able to take advantage of it as of September when I take the premium plunge .

sorry but if you dont pay for the game you dont get the benefits.
thats like not paying taxes and collecting welfare, then complaining you dont get enough.

[Phidius]

It's not at all like that. It would be like you charging your 5 year old son $10 a month to let him have extra ice cream. Then a while later you decide that your 3 year old daughter should get the extra ice cream without having to give you $10 a month, but you still keep charging your son the same fee for the same ice cream.

Right now the open on elite is a perk that VIPs already get. If you then allow the F2P people to have it, you actually are taking away something from the VIPS.

All these analogies are making my head spin...

Just to be clear, your claim is that you're acting like a 5 year old?



Seriously, though, are you saying that all ViPs get over premium is the ability to open on Hard/Elite? You guys are way overpaying.

[jjflanigan]

All these analogies are making my head spin...

Just to be clear, your claim is that you're acting like a 5 year old?



Seriously, though, are you saying that all ViPs get over premium is the ability to open on Hard/Elite? You guys are way overpaying.

:P I was taking the analogy and correcting it for that specific instance. Not saying it's the only perk, but it is A perk included in the price as part of the balancing fact of the cost of VIP.

[Monkey_Archer]

sorry but if you dont pay for the game you dont get the benefits.
thats like not paying taxes and collecting welfare, then complaining you dont get enough.

Ive paid 3 years of subscription fees... I then paid for enough turbine points to essentially buy the game... now I'm offering to pay additional $20 in points for a relatively small feature for convenience...
Paying for the benefits is exactly what im trying to do here

[Stillwaters]

OMFG seriously??!??!!

How hard is it to put up a LFM for an elite opener - it is NOT difficult in the slightest to continue being FTP or PREM(adonna) and still get the bravery bonus..

You prems that want everything a VIP gets for less make me SICK!

you already have an option for elite open in the ddo store- its exactly what you are after.. you pay $ and get the bonus, you want it again, you pay again JUST LIKE VIP do EVERY MONTH!

IDC about the neg rep im gunna get for this - it needed to be said!

[Monkey_Archer]

A simple fix would be to allow single TR's (hero) to open hard and lower difficulties. double TR's (Legends) to open all quests up to elite. win-win for everyone I think.

That works... and would save me $20

[Thrudh]

Even as a premium player myself, I wouldn't recommend allowing a permanent unlock of hard/elite difficulties via the DDOStore. VIP needs some things to make it a worthwhile option when competing with Premium, and and such an addition to those benefits (without taking anything away from F2P or Premium, I might add) like the bravery bonus is, IMO, a good thing.

As long as it's expensive.... like 2000 TPs for global hard unlock and 5000 TPs for global elite unlock.... (or maybe 1500 and 4000)

I'm fine with it....

[Thrudh]

How is adding a perk to for VIPs a penalty for f2p?

Yeah, not getting a bonus is not the same as getting a penalty...

Still, I'd be okay with all TRs be able to open hard or global unlocks being sold in the store.

But all TRs shouldn't automatically get to open elite like VIPs.

[Phidius]

I prefer for TRs to automatically get auto-hard, and leave the Elite in the ViP camp.

They pay to be beta testers, after all, so they deserve something.

At the same time, the subscription-model was an alleged failure, so it doesn't make sense to cater to them at the perceived cost to the new F2P crowd.