Bravery bonus and F2P/Premium

[Thrudh]

The difference will be as follows.

Before the change-

Run N,H,E of quest A
Run N,H,E of quest B
Run N,H,E of quest C

Now-

Run N of quest A,B,C
Run H of quest A,B,C
Run E of quest A,B,C

Nope, if you run N of a quest the first time in, you can NEVER get the bravery bonus from it...

Bravery comes from entering a quest the FIRST time on hard or elite... After that you can run it normal without changing your bravery streak

[Thrudh]

Not getting the bonus is losing something.

No it isn't.

You gain with the 40%/80%.

Even if you never get a bravery bonus, you still level faster than before. You lose nothing. You gain.

VIPs gain more.

That said, I'm okay with some method of letting premium get unlocks... they just shouldn't be handed elite unlocks for free though.

[Monkey_Archer]

I think it comes down to simple economics... Buying the game with TP as a premium player is roughly equivalent to 1-2 years of a subscription (depending on how much content/feature you want).
So, the question is: are there more premium players willing to buy elite unlock then the number of VIPs that are staying VIP for 1-2 years solely for the ability to elite unlock. Im going to guess yes

[Rumbaar]

I've always said there needed more incentives to go VIP, it seems they are addressing that gap. I'm a pure Premium player, and will never go VIP. If it gets to a point where I have to pay a monthly fee I'll just stop playing.

But I do have an alt premium account I have setup to be my elite opener. Which only cost me $50 to setup. TP bonus and mulk adventure pack discounts. Also most times they don't need to have the pack to be an elite opener, one run via guest passes is a enough [3BC, Necro 1-3, etc]

I think it comes down to simple economics... Buying the game with TP as a premium player is roughly equivalent to 1-2 years of a subscription (depending on how much content/feature you want).

You can get most if not all of the game via premium for less than 1 year of subscription.

[Xaxx]

At what point does VIPs get screwed exactly?

Well if taking something thats exclusivly vip and giving it to f2p/premium in any form isnt screwing vips..... then I dont see how not giving f2p/premium something that is exclusivly vip as screwing premium. Oh you dont like your own logic returned to ya?

If this was to go ahead... it would simply fall under the *vips get everything for a monthly fee*... it would no longer be under *be a vip and get two special things... unlocks and 3 days head start on the new content*.... wow you wanna give vips 3 day head start as the vip perk.... wow... what a nice thing for you to want to do for vips.

[Full_Bleed]

I call Bait and Switch.


It's like this:

Your cable company comes to you and says, "For all the channels it's $50 a month. For just the channels you want, you can pay us $500 for the year."

You decide to pay the $500 for the year.

Then, 3 months later, the company adds a single new channel. You want that channel. So the Cable Company says, "Sure, you can have that channel if you pay us $50 a month to get all the channels."

They say this as if the $500 you've put into their service has no value.

And to make things worse, the customer service rep tells you, "Well, if you want to pay $5 for 1 hour of viewing the channel you want (buying the Elite Unlock from the DDO store), we can do that."

I'd leave a cable company that did that to me.

And I think most of you would, too.

[Calebro]

I haven't read much of this thread beyond that OP and the first few responses, so forgive me if this has been suggested already.

We have three tiers of payment options (account types). Free, Premium, VIP.
We have three tiers of quest difficulties. Normal, Hard, Elite.
Why do we only have two tiers of opening options?

Free should be able to open Normal.
Premium should be able to open Hard.
VIP should be able to open Elite.

This solves the problem of the new Bravery system only being available to VIPs, while also keeping them a little ahead of the Premium players, just like they should be.
Everyone wins.
Make it so.

[EpiKagEMO]

I agree that its not fair. for those who want to do n/h/e for players wanting more challenge and wasnt sure about his potential at that certain quest.

I'm premium myself, but
Wouldnt this make favor farming way easier for premiums?<--w/o vip friend/vip guildies
i would like elite openers for premiums.

If they did this.. they would have to make each difficulty a tier of favor except casual.
ie. casual-non-stacking 2 favor with normal, normal-4 hard-4 elite-4
adding altogether=12
or something like that...

the game is becoming more p2p for more. f2p for less.

[protokon]

I haven't read much of this thread beyond that OP and the first few responses, so forgive me if this has been suggested already.

We have three tiers of payment options (account types). Free, Premium, VIP.
We have three tiers of quest difficulties. Normal, Hard, Elite.
Why do we only have two tiers of opening options?

Free should be able to open Normal.
Premium should be able to open Hard.
VIP should be able to open Elite.

This solves the problem of the new Bravery system only being available to VIPs, while also keeping them a little ahead of the Premium players, just like they should be.
Everyone wins.
Make it so.

I've also suggested earlier that TRs could be given this benefit instead of account type; such as heroes (34 pt builds) can open up to hard difficulty, legends (36 pt builds) can open all difficulties. I think that would work for everyone, f2p or p2p if your leveling a TR toon you have access to it.

[Aaxeyu]

I
This solves the problem of the new Bravery system only being available to VIPs, while also keeping them a little ahead of the Premium players, just like they should be.

Why?
Many premiums pay more than VIPs. And for turbine it's ALOT better to get a lump sum instead of the sum spread out over 1-3 years.

EDIT: And even if VIPs should be a head of premiums, it really shouldn't be in something that can significantly effect your gameplay experience. Your account type should be a financial desicion, not a gameplay desicion.

[Calebro]

I've also suggested earlier that TRs could be given this benefit instead of account type; such as heroes (34 pt builds) can open up to hard difficulty, legends (36 pt builds) can open all difficulties. I think that would work for everyone, f2p or p2p if your leveling a TR toon you have access to it.

That wouldn't solve the problem for premium players at all, unless they decided to TR.
I'l be perfectly honest.... I couldn't care less about the f2p players. They haven't spent a single penny to help support the game, so I haven't spent a single thought caring whether they feel butt hurt about something. But premium players are getting screwed by this new "bonus" the way it is now.
Changing the opening system to allow hard opens by premium players would fix this issue, while keeping the VIPs slightly ahead.
I think this is the way to go.

[Aaxeyu]

No it isn't.

You gain with the 40%/80%.

Even if you never get a bravery bonus, you still level faster than before. You lose nothing. You gain.

VIPs gain more.

You are taking my quote out of context.

[protokon]

That wouldn't solve the problem for premium players at all, unless they decided to TR.
I'l be perfectly honest.... I couldn't care less about the f2p players. They haven't spent a single penny to help support the game, so I haven't spent a single thought caring whether they feel butt hurt about something. But premium players are getting screwed by this new "bonus" the way it is now.
Changing the opening system to allow hard opens by premium players would fix this issue, while keeping the VIPs slightly ahead.
I think this is the way to go.

My mindset isn't about keeping VIP's ahead of premiums (I've been VIP since i started the game in 07). If you have TRed your character, I think you are experienced enough and earned the right to be able to open harder difficulties, especially since chances are your character is twinked from his first life (most of the time anyways). It's the whole idea of making TRing more challenging with an incentive to run harder content - except that you cant run the harder content without being able to open it, hence the whole argument here. I honestly think this would work great for everyone, while leaving VIP's full access to elite on non-tred characters as an extra perk.

[Stillwaters]

If you have TRed your character, I think you are experienced enough and earned the right to be able to open harder difficulties, especially since chances are your character is twinked from his first life

Sadly, this is becoming more and more untrue - i've ran several pugs recently that leads me to believe the easy xp, and guild runs, get many new players to TR within their first few weeks of play... Experienced, no!! even with TR its the PLAYER SKILL>GEAR>BUILD

I was P2P when IQ was the Noob quarter and ppl ran out of quests limping (sometimes blind and cursed) to a nearby tavern, i paid for turbines to unlock the game and im STILL VIP.. Y? 'cause of elite open... Give that boon away and ill grind my turbines thru favor runs and Turbine wont get another cent from me.

[protokon]

Sadly, this is becoming more and more untrue - i've ran several pugs recently that leads me to believe the easy xp, and guild runs, get many new players to TR within their first few weeks of play... Experienced, no!! even with TR its the PLAYER SKILL>GEAR>BUILD

I was P2P when IQ was the Noob quarter and ppl ran out of quests limping (sometimes blind and cursed) to a nearby tavern, i paid for turbines to unlock the game and im STILL VIP.. Y? 'cause of elite open... Give that boon away and ill grind my turbines thru favor runs and Turbine wont get another cent from me.

100% agree that with the availability of hearts in the store (coupled with a few really, really pathetic epic dungeons that make token farming easy) more and more inexperienced players are TRing - my point was more that the character has capped and reincarnated to experience the game a second time, so has earned the option of opening harder difficulties (and harder again with a second TR).

people who TR should have the right to open harder difficulties, regardless of whether they can handle it or not (lol).

As madfloydd said, Die harder!!!

[Stillwaters]

Many ppl above have already said this but---

1/ Its not hard to put up a lfm for an elite opener, if you want to solo, that fine, just put that in lfm too so i dont get miffed you dropped me after you get inside

2/ If you really cant be bothered talking to ANYONE to use the above method(kind of sad in a MMO), get a 2nd account and build your own elite opener its not hard.

3/ Grind a ton of favor points for free and use them to buy store elite-open one-shot items.

4/ ..... Become a VIP

[Kmnh]

I like the proposed solution of letting TRs open hard and double TRs open elite. You can't do a double TR without putting some good time and money into the game.

[Ashbinder]

A new bonus has been created that awards players for running quests consecutively on hard and elite difficulties. This Bravery Bonus is a 5% bonus (10% bonus on Elite) that will "stack" up to five times, or until a player runs a quest on Normal difficulty.
XP Rewards for first time completion on normal, hard, and elite are now 25%, 40% and 80% respectively.

I don't see where it says that you have to do the quest on Hard or Elite before Normal to get the bonus.

Shouldn't a maximum exp return hypothetically be:

N x1: (+25% first run bonus)
H x5: (+40% first run bonus, +5% bravery second, +10% third, +15% fourth, +20% fifth)
E x1: (+80% first run bonus +30% bravery)

Since hard has dungeon scaling and elite doesn't, multiple hard runs would be faster than elites, maximizing exp/min assuming it takes you less time than equivalent normal runs.

If I missed the part where it was stated you had to enter on hard or elite first in order to gain the bravery bonus could someone point it out for me?

[mystafyi]

Since hard has dungeon scaling and elite doesn't

elite also scales...

[Truga]

Even as a premium player myself, I wouldn't recommend allowing a permanent unlock of hard/elite difficulties via the DDOStore. VIP needs some things to make it a worthwhile option when competing with Premium, and and such an addition to those benefits (without taking anything away from F2P or Premium, I might add) like the bravery bonus is, IMO, a good thing.

This.