Update 40 Preview 1: Raid Loot Feedback Thread

[Captain_Wizbang]

Thank you for being open to feedback.

She's got moxie, and listens. Wow.


As for this....Armor & dex bonus? And the Nullmagic guard at level is very weak sauce. The PRR should be insightful, and try to consider other options, for melees vs the cleric this is aimed at.


Nullcloth Armor Heavy Armor

• Nullmagic Guard (on being struck, has a chance to silence your foe)
• PRR +52
• Fortification 208%
• Will Saves +16
• Magical Null (15% penalty to spell failure)
• Green Augment Slot
• Yellow Augment Slot

[Cantor]

The staff of shadows needs to be relooked

Many said it as well but 18-20/x3 base profile would be alot better. The OG sword of shadows also had a bigger base damage dice (5d6 back then I think) but that got changed sometime since

Thanks

This was a nerf to deadly weapons. it was 5d6 they changed it to 2.5(2d6). That was pretty much when they introduced multipliers for weapons base w.

[ChromeX]

The clouded dreams also gives +10% exceptional spell lore. 10% stacking lore is a lot. Sorcerers would love this one.


I wonder if anthem augments count for the Elyd Charm, though.

maybe ...the penalties still suck ... and it would have to stack with this as well or its food.

http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Legenda...les%27_Regalia

[barecm]

Using Lynnabels Napkin math:
Chaosbow:
5[1d8+3] 20/x4(elasticity) does [5 * 7.5 = 37.5] non crit and[37.5 * 4 =150] crits
1 miss = 0, 18 hits = 675, 1 crit = 150, total = 825.
Ranged Alacrity 25%

Legendary Hunter of Wilds
7[1d6+2] 19-20/x4(elasticity) does [7 * 5.5 = 38.5] non crit and [38.5 *4 =154] crits
1 miss= 0, 17 hits= 654.5, 2 crits = 308 total = 962.5
Bow Ranged Alacrity: 0%
Epic Blinding speed: 22%

both have 9d6 chaos damage.
Legendary Hunter of wilds has 15d10 on crits and Keen.
Chaosbow has Improved Destruction

Personally I feel chaosbow could use a little more.

Also to meantion both bows penalize lawful toons.

I just don't see the Chaosbow as a lvl 29 raid-worthy item. The ranged alacrity needs to change to 5% insightful or whatever bonus that will stack. A 3% bump over EBS feat is not raid item worthy. These stats are pretty similar to other non-raid bows already in game. Two augment slots don't do it for me either. Nothing new, special or exciting about this whatsoever. Retread attributes from other, lower level non-raid items.

[Recared]

Another solution is to not name it Staff of Shadow. Sword of Shadow was too iconic to have its name somehow injustly treated through such a staff...

If going to buff it, I would suggest making it 19-20 x4 (!) or 17-20 x3, or 18-20 x3 but with +20 weapon (2d6 + 6). Even at 18-20 x3 it would be maybe the best quartersaff, but non competitive with other weapon/melee build fighting styles.

PS: I think the large, vast majority of players are very happy with all of your work and attention to us players, it's just this time numbers mixed with such a name were not right

Edit: at the large weapon parameter I proposed, it may be competitive.

Edit 2: After further thinking, this could well be a) 18-20x4 (1d6 + 6), b) 16-20x3 (1d6 + 6) or c) 18-20x3 (2d6 +6) (+20 enhance). This would make it extraordinary (and NOT even absolute best). Haven't seen staff builds for long time, they deserve a bone.

[Delosari]

I have not seen any intelligence items. Could I suggest a +8, +9 insightful intelligence item?

Also which are the numbers on the Cloak of the Mountain? (particularly spell focus mastery)

Finally, as a suggestion... I know it is a ddo taboo to mention spell points regeneration items but you have traditionally put some in raids. Maybe you could include one of the previous mechanisms in some caster items.

[SerPounce]

Finally, as a suggestion... I know it is a ddo taboo to mention spell points regeneration items but you have traditionally put some in raids. Maybe you could include one of the previous mechanisms in some caster items.

True, iconic DDO items of the past really should include a version of the Torc. Maybe an orb?

[Chacka_DDO]

Ouch! Very harsh words, seriously. Feedback like that is unusably nonconstructive. However, you did happen to be right about one thing - I did make a serious napkin math mistake in my previous posts. I'm sure this mistake will totally blow over, though, and no one will ever hold it against me beyond this thread... right? :P

The relationships between the two weapons don't follow a non-intersecting curve, there is a breaking point at which the weapons do pass each other at certain damage/seeker and bonus crit threat relationships (somewhere in the +2 range +4 mult area when damage is roughly double the seeker value). If anything, though, you guys are convincing me to nerf the Elemental Bloom quarterstaff. If the existence of Elemental Bloom is inhibiting our ability to make raid loot, the problem is the original weapon, not our new weapon.

This is kind of the hole that DDO weaponry has been dug into over the last 12 years, and digging ourselves out of it will take a lot of time. I'm willing to die on the hill of "don't repeat past DDO mistakes," even if you guys hate me forever for it.

If you quote only one line out of the context it is not a fair behavior I see you do great work at many points and as I said, I seriously and honestly appreciate your work!
But even if you are great artists and designers and all, It seemingly doesn't mean that you are great at math too and therefore to hire someone with this profession in ADDITION to your team might be a great help for you.
Sometimes it need to tell the truth and it is not possible to be polite because exactly this IS constructive at this point.

If it comes to math some developers proved themselves several times as not competent enough because some things especially when it comes to probability calculation are that much out of any realism that it is quite obvious that no one really did the math for it.
But when it comes to dropping rates you can of course always say it is WAI.
And the same for the nerf of Unarmed Strike, you can of course always claim that this nerf is need even if you have no real idea how it affects monks in different levels.
And also here the release of Duality, the Moral Compass with 7[1d6+6] shows clearly that the one who did this had no idea what consequences it has for a monk and obviously he did no math at all.
Now you are going to nerf all monks with U40 at a core feature of the class just only because you still cannot admit that you even now don't comprehend that even 7[1d6+3] is too much because a monk has more weapon dices as usual.
But the answer for this problem is not to remove this special feature from the monk class and in a missleaded try for egalitarianism.
You just cannot give monks the same weapons as for other classes but of course you remain silent after your annoncement.
But to remain silent is NOT a sign that you know what you do and we have to trust that everything is WAI and well thought out!

The most hilarious example of this behavior was that SSG claimed on one patch note, now the raise timer doesn't reset anymore when one leashes back to his soul stone.
Fine, I thought, now I tell them in which quest this is still not working as they claimed.
Just to mention it, I really wanted to be helpful here and it is work to do a bug report...
Then I receive a mail after several bug reports that this is allegedly WAI and I should stop to write such bug reports (maybe reading them disturbed someone at drinking his morning tea...)
I send a mail back this cannot be because SSG just announced in a patch note, that this is not WAI... the answer was silence.
After I made this public on the forum Cordovan suddenly claimed it was just a mistake in the patch note.
But now the best part...
I still wanted to be constructive and helpful so I thought fine, then I investigate two things, the soul stone problem and the problem with Epic Destiny buffs, with a surprising result...
After I made the investigation it is quite clear that this phenomenon of presenting raise timers is bound to apparently the same reason that makes your Epic Destiny buffs sometimes fade when you use a portal in a quest!
And this is a way older issue in DDO and is in no way intended.
And this is a quite clear proof that some developers just claim something is WAI just only because they think a player cannot prove that it is not.
But I proved it and even if it has no consequences for the involved SSG employees, everyone who reads this knows the wrong attitude of some SSG employees and see it may be a bit more critical if they claim the next time something is allegedly WAI!
And also here, remaining silent about this is clearly a misconception of the try to be polite and friendly, sometimes the truth needs to be told and this IS constructive because otherwise most likely nothing changes!

[noobodyfool]

how bout a docent? and a bastard sword that doesnt look just like Legendary Wave of Despair?

[Yamani]

how bout a docent? and a bastard sword that doesnt look just like Legendary Wave of Despair?

Read the theme, it's that design for a reason.

[Cordovan]

I've been keeping a low profile in terms of moderation, but some folks need to chill with insulting members of the team, please. It's never appropriate to harass or insult each other or team members.

[Thar]

I agree for this bow. I am reading a lot of folks saying how awesome it will be, and others not so much. I am on the not so much side. 3% speed increase (yes, proper archers have haste feat) is not worth the effort. Make it a 5% insightful bonus or something that stacks. Elasticity is fine. Imp destruction is nice but no wow factor either. Chaotic damage is pedestrian. Standard damage for a lvl 29 item; raid or non raid.

What will fix this is turning 25% ranged alacrity into a 5% insightful bonus. If you are going to add 2 augments, please make some lvl 29 worthy augments to put in there! Augments seem to have fallen off a long time ago... we need some new imaginative choices here. I am not advocating an increased crit range (as I think that idea made things out of control for a while), but there needs to be something with more flash or creativity.

As is, this is a poorly thought out, rather bland addition that does not really give you anything new or exciting. I get the feeling that whomever was working on this kind of mailed it in.... not much effort on this one.

i'd change the destruction to 9d6 good damage helping break dr at the same time and alaracty to a legendary vorpal or legendary paralyzing or shiradi colors effect some like effect that's different. it should be better than hunter of the wilds because a) it's a longbow and b) it's a raid weapon. The ravenloft bow is meh even compared to the other ravenloft bows. Need something to compete with the shuriken builds although one weapon isn't going to fix that.

[Odysseus2011]

how bout a docent?

Warforged are basically extinct at this point so It doesn’t really matter

[noobodyfool]

Read the theme, it's that design for a reason.

be similar in theme and different in slot, or similar in slot and different in theme ill take the 2nd one

[noobodyfool]

Warforged are basically extinct at this point so It doesn’t really matter

hi friend but i still like them

[red_kain]

Another idea on the Staff of shadow, instead of buffing the crit range as SSG seems wary of, why not buff the base damage dice, SoS *had* that. 5w(1d10+6) 20x3 is a nice compromise maybe?

[AMADHA]

This thread is for feedback on both the new raid loot coming with Update 40. For full release notes on this Preview push please look here.

Chaosbow Longbow
Damage Dice: 5[1d8+3]

• 9d6 Chaotic Damage (Lawful characters will take a neg level)
• Improved Destruction
• Elasticity (+1 Mult on 19-20)
• Ranged Alacrity 25%
• Red Augment Slot
• Orange Augment Slot

It's interesting that the only bow in the list does Chaotic damage and gives lawful characters a neg level but there is not a complementary bow that does Lawful damage that neg levels a chaotic character. That's balance (bias?) for you.

[Pinksaki]

This thread is for feedback on both the new raid loot coming with Update 40. For full release notes on this Preview push please look here.

Theme: Time Travel! These are alternate timeline versions of raid and quest items you know and love. They'll be similar in theme and different in slot, or similar in slot and different in theme. You'll understand what I mean when you start looking at them.

Power Levels: These are all Raid level items! They are minimum level 29. They'll match the numbers of The Curse of Strahd and Baba Lysaga. All Crit Profiles are standard, or Standard + keen, with the exception of The Staff of Shadows.

You can find all of these items on the "Loot Guy" in the Test Dojo on Lamannia. Note: some of these differ slightly from what you will see on Lamannia as a couple last minute tweaks have been made to design that did not make it into this preview. When in doubt, what is listed in this thread is the intended item. Please make note of any differences in case they are bugs that we are unaware of (which is always possible).

WEAPONS:

The Staff of Shadows Quarterstaff
Damage Dice: 5[1d6+6]
+1 Base Multiplier

• Material: Adamantine
• Red Augment Slot
• Orange Augment Slot

Brilliant Crescent Sickle
Damage Dice: 5[1d6+3]

• 9d6 Lawful Damage (Chaotic characters will take a neg level)
• Limb Chopper
• Keen V
• Material: Adamantine
• Red Augment Slot
• Orange Augment Slot
• Set Bonus: When both Brilliant Crescents are equipped, you have +20% Offhand Strike Chance

Chaosbow Longbow
Damage Dice: 5[1d8+3]

• 9d6 Chaotic Damage (Lawful characters will take a neg level)
• Improved Destruction
• Elasticity (+1 Mult on 19-20)
• Ranged Alacrity 25%
• Red Augment Slot
• Orange Augment Slot

Hellstroke Heavy Mace Heavy Mace
Damage Dice: 5[1d6+3]

• Maiming 9
• Impact V
• Doublestrike 23%
• Material: Cold Iron
• Red Augment Slot
• Orange Augment Slot

Tornado Handaxe
Damage Dice: 5[1d6+3]

• 9d6 Sonic Damage on hit
• Legendary Telekinetic (DC 90 Knockdown)
• Legendary Slicing Winds
• Legendary Sirocco (DC 90 Blind)
• Red Augment Slot
• Orange Augment Slot

Timeshard Shortsword
Damage Dice: 5[1d6+3]

• Doublestrike 23%
• Identity Crisis (Salt proc on-hit)
• Legendary Paralyzing (DC 90)
• Freedom of Movement
• Red Augment Slot
• Orange Augment Slot

Nightshard Scimitar
Damage Dice: 5[1d6+3]

• Identity Crisis (Salt proc on-hit)
• Keen V
• Utter Disintegration
• Material: Byeshk
• Red Augment Slot
• Orange Augment Slot

Staff of Irian Quarterstaff
Damage Dice: 5[1d6+6]

• Deific Focus III
• Fire/Light Spell Power 208
• Fire/Light Spell Lore 30%
• If Quarterstaves are your favored weapon, whenever you expend a charge of Turn Undead, you become Favored by Irian, increasing your Fire and Light Spell Critical Damage by 5% (Quality Bonus) for 20 seconds.
• If Quarterstaves are your favored weapon, while you are projecting an Aura of Menace, you can absorb 20 spells per rest.
• Brazen Brilliance (from the Sunsword)
• Red Augment Slot
• Orange Augment Slot

Lightning Coil Light Mace
Damage Dice: 5[1d6+3]

• Every few seconds, this weapon charges you with more lingering electricity that increases lightning spell power/spell lore. When you cast a lightning spell, it consumes all stacks. Each stack provides 10 Exceptional Lightning Spell Power, and 5% exceptional Lightning Spell Lore, max stack size 3.
• Lightning Spell Power 208
• Lightning Spell Lore 30%
• Evocation Spell DC +8
• Red Augment Slot
• Orange Augment Slot

ARMOR:

Mail of the Mroranon Medium Armor

• Strength +20
• PRR +52
• Fortification 208%
• Your Rage provides you with Energy Drain immunity for its duration.
• Green Augment Slot
• Yellow Augment Slot

Nullcloth Armor Heavy Armor

• Nullmagic Guard (on being struck, has a chance to silence your foe)
• PRR +52
• Fortification 208%
• Will Saves +16
• Magical Null (15% penalty to spell failure)
• Green Augment Slot
• Yellow Augment Slot

ACCESSORIES:

Gauntlets of the Stormreaver Gloves

• Big huge Lightning Strike on Vorpal hits to your target
• Protection +16
• Insightful Sheltering +26
• Lightning Absorption +76
• Green Augment Slot
• Yellow Augment Slot

Ring of the Silver Tongue Ring

• Improved Deception
• Insightful Deception Att/Dmg
• Assassinate
• Insightful Assassinate
• Green Augment Slot
• Blue Augment Slot

Clouded Dreams Ring

• Exceptional Potency +20
• Exceptional Spell Lore +10%
• Insightful Spell Focus Mastery +4
• Improved Nightmare Guard (DC 100)
• Mind Drain (-5% Max Spell Points)
• -4 Will Saves
• Green Augment Slot
• Yellow Augment Slot

Trinket of Freewill Trinket

• Mind Control Immunity
• Magical Resistance Rating +52
• Spell Resistance +46
• Insightful Wisdom +9
• Green Augment Slot
• Blue Augment Slot

Elyd Charm Necklace

• Anthem
• Charisma +20
• Insightful Devotion +104
• When you have 3 or more sources of Anthem, this grants exceptional 30 sonic spell power and 15% sonic spell lore
• Green Augment Slot
• Yellow Augment Slot

Bracers of the Mountain Bracers

• Physical Resistance Rating +52
• Insightful Physical Resistance Rating +25
  
• Insightful Spell Penetration
• Petrification Immunity
• Set Bonus: While wearing this and the Cloak of the Mountain, grants exceptional 30 Acid Spell Power and 15% Acid Spell Lore, and when struck you sometimes cast Stoneskin on yourself.
• Green Augment Slot
• Blue Augment Slot

Cloak of the Mountain Cloak

• Insightful Charisma +9
• Spell Focus Mastery
• Spell Penetration
• Spellcast on the Run feat
• Set Bonus: While wearing this and the Bracers of the Mountain, grants exceptional 30 Acid Spell Power and 15% Acid Spell Lore, and when struck you sometimes cast Stoneskin on yourself.
• Green Augment Slot
• Yellow Augment Slot

Wind Howler Mask Helmet

• Insightful Dexterity +9
• Relentless Fury
• Doubleshot 12%
• Tendon Slice, 16 seconds
• Green Augment Slot
• Yellow Augment Slot

OTHER WEAPONS:

These weapons will also be included in Update 40, although their acquisition method will be a little different than most methods. More details to come when the rest of the Update is a little further along. You can expect to have to run raid-level content to access these.

The Reflection of Blackrazor Greatsword
Damage Dice: 7[2d6+6] (+2W from Keen)

• Soul Devouring: On hit, applies a stack of Soul Scar - Reduces AC, Fortification, and Will Saves by 1, stacks 20 times. On hit, Blackrazor can attempt to devour the Soul of a non-boss monster (DC 100 Phantasmal Killer vs Will negates, no effect vs mobs at 5,000 or more HP). When you kill a target, this adds a stack of Devoured Soul to you, max 20, which provides a profane bonus of 1 to Damage and Melee power per stack. On Block or unequip, consumed souls are released. Souls last for 20 seconds.
• Keen V
• Entropic (Bane damage on hit)
• Vampirism 4d2
• Mind Control Immunity
• Red Augment Slot
• Orange Augment Slot

Soulrazor Longsword
Damage Dice: 7[1d8+3] (+2W from Keen)

• Soul Devouring: On hit, applies a stack of Soul Scar - Reduces AC, Fortification, and Will Saves by 1, stacks 20 times. On hit, Blackrazor can attempt to devour the Soul of a non-boss monster (DC 100 Phantasmal Killer vs Will negates, no effect vs mobs at 5,000 or more HP). When you kill a target, this adds a stack of Devoured Soul to you, max 20, which provides a profane bonus of 1 to Damage and Melee power per stack. On Block or unequip, consumed souls are released. Souls last for 20 seconds.
• Keen V
• Entropic (Bane damage on hit)
• Vampirism 4d2
• Mind Control Immunity
• Red Augment Slot
• Orange Augment Slot

The Reflection of Whelm Warhammer
Damage Dice: 5[1d8+3]

• Overwhelming Shockwave: This reverberates with incredible power, and on a Vorpal strike releases a shockwave that does extreme damage to surrounding enemies. It also dazes your target (like Guardbreaking)
• +1 Crit Multiplier on a 19-20
• Bonesplitter
• Giant Bane
• Red Augment Slot
• Orange Augment Slot

Overwhelming Impact Throwing Hammer
Damage Dice: 5[1d4+3]

• Overwhelming Shockwave: This reverberates with incredible power, and on a Vorpal strike releases a shockwave that does extreme damage to surrounding enemies. It also dazes your target (like Guardbreaking)
• +1 Crit Multiplier on a 19-20
• Bonesplitter
• Giant Bane
• Red Augment Slot
• Orange Augment Slot

The Reflection of Wave Quarterstaff
Damage Dice: 5[1d6+6]

• The Crash of the Waves: On Harmful Spellcast, you have a small chance of locking an enemy in a frozen block of ice. DC 100.
• Frozen Storm Lore: Ice/Electric/Sonic Spell Lore +30%
• Frozen Storm Power: Ice/Electric/Sonic Spell Power 208
• Swirling Ice Shield: 3 Charges/3 per day
• Greater Water Elemental Form: While in Water Elemental Form (Druid and Sorcerer both count for this), you benefit from 50 Exceptional Cold Spell Power, 20% Exceptional Cold Spell Lore, and you have 5 additional maximum/current Cold Spell caster levels
• Water Breathing
• Red Augment Slot
• Orange Augment Slot

Sphere of Waves Orb
Damage Dice: 5[1d6+6]

• The Crash of the Waves: On Harmful Spellcast, you have a small chance of locking an enemy in a frozen block of ice. DC 100.
• Frozen Storm Lore: Ice/Electric Spell Lore +30%
• Frozen Storm Power: Ice/Electric Spell Power 208
• Cold Resist 78
• Red Augment Slot
• Orange Augment Slot

Reflection of Angdrelve Greatsword
Damage Dice: 5[2d6+6]

• Chance to cause confusion on-hit, also does 9d6 chaos damage to confused targets - lawful characters take a neg level
• 9d6 Acid Damage on-hit
• 5 Constitution Damage on-hit
• Legendary Slay Living proc (DC 100)
• Red Augment Slot
• Orange Augment Slot

Soul's Sorrow Bastard Sword
Damage Dice: 5[1d10+3]

• Chance to cause confusion on-hit, also does 9d6 chaos damage to confused targets - lawful characters take a neg level
• 9d6 Acid Damage on-hit
• 5 Constitution Damage on-hit
• Legendary Slay Living proc (DC 100)
• Red Augment Slot
• Orange Augment Slot

The Reflection of the Frostblade Scimitar
Damage Dice: 5[1d6+3]

• Legendary Freezing Ice proc (DC 100)
• 9d6 Frost Damage on-hit
• 9d10 Evil Outsider Bane
• Material: Silver
• Red Augment Slot
• Orange Augment Slot

Thanks for reading, and please let us know what you think!


IMPORTANT TO NOTE

• The Loot guy in the Test Dojo will sell you any of these items for platinum, but also has a copy of the "Raid Rune Turn In" barter box. In Preview 1 there is currently no way to gain the "Time Runes" required to trade in for the items using that barter box. Simply use the shop instead.
• Character Copies to Lamannia are not available for Preview 1.

How many updates are you going to roll out without offering up some new named repeaters?

[Chacka_DDO]

You guys are pushing that very effectively, don't worry. You've made your point very much heard

We'll talk it over, because we do want each weapon in this raid to feel special.

I think my crude calculation shows that this quarterstaff is not really underpowered if you have a real character it means that most likely the crit profile of this staff changes and this means that the crit profile difference between the Elemental Bloom and this new staff is much smaller but the big base damage of the new staff remains!

It was just a bit alarming for me that your own calculation said that the new Staff of Shadows does double the damage of the Elemental Bloom and you were ok with that assumption.
My initial guess was that the Elemental Bloom is better than the new Staff of Shadows but I was also wrong.
But a bit of math can help here to make a slightly better estimation.
The Elemental Bloom is much better as you thought in comparison but still noticeably weaker than the new Staff of Shadows.

Seemingly we tend to underestimate the power of the weapon dices, it is a huge difference if a weapon is 5[1d6] or 5[1d6+6]!
My assessment is that the new Staff of Shadows is with "only" one more crit multiplier in correlation with the increased weapon dice now noticeable stronger than the Elemental Bloom in the right hands.

Just the issue remains that you want to make players feel that this new weapon is special but they should feel it if they use it.
And in general, it is a very good attitude that you want to make every item feel different and special.
But don't go the cheap way and buy this with more raw power, it needs creativity and not more power.
Just be aware that if you create a more powerful weapon you set new standards for the future.
Therefore similar power for new items as for the old is better even if this is hard to understand for payers.
I'm also a bit spoiled and used to expect more power with new items even if I know this is wrong because it harms DDO as a whole.
Make items different to make them interesting and not more powerful!

[Captain_Wizbang]

It's never appropriate to harass or insult team members.

Especially when the amount of shared dialogue the team is giving us. This is truly unprecedented with the depth of info you all are providing. Big thanks for allowing us to give feedback.

PS ty Oliveyew and you for the glowing eyes.