Update 40 Preview 1: Raid Loot Feedback Thread

[Grace_ana]

How many updates are you going to roll out without offering up some new named repeaters?

They just had one in the Disciples of Rage update. Update 38. It's a good one, too.

[jimcricket]

Seems very odd the bow has Elasticity but no improved critical range. No comments about the bow feedback yet. hmm reminds me of last update.

Please just give it improved crit range. people playing this style are using bows from so long ago now.

Change the chaos to something else, its over used.

[Emerslochingvyrr]

Seems very odd the bow has Elasticity but no improved critical range. No comments about the bow feedback yet. hmm reminds me of last update.

Please just give it improved crit range. people playing this style are using bows from so long ago now.

Change the chaos to something else, its over used.

+1

[Xyfiel]

The bow is based on the Chaosblade. Removing chaos from it makes no sense. If anything it should have more.

[Emerslochingvyrr]

The bow is based on the Chaosblade. Removing chaos from it makes no sense. If anything it should have more.

Also agreed because of the theme. They could have based it on something like Retribution/Divine Vemgeance(Palcher comeback! Though that had a mirror in RL)/Enduring Conviction(Silver Flame theme synergy) instead. What was really being implied was the continuation of the lawful nerf (which I presume is a relic of the continued moncher supremacy belief). It joins the group of other cool archery themed items that penalize being lawful/being monk (hunter of wilds, epic quiver of alacrity, etc) while there hasn't really been a great showing for the lawful archers (EE road watch bow I believe was the last lawful named bow (disregarding the aligned property).)

[Yamani]

A more realistic assumption is that you have more than +100 damage from such effects

Elemental Bloom 5[1d6]+100 and 17-20 x3
miss once (0)
you hit 15 times for 5*3.5+100 = 1762,5
you crit 4 times for (5*3.5+100)*3 = 1410
total of 3172

The Staff of Shadows 5[1d6+6]+100 and 19-20 x3
miss once = 0
you hit 17 times for 5*9.5+100 = 2507,5
you crit 2 times for (5*9.5+100)*3 =885
total of 3392,5

Correct me if i'm wrong but shouldn't Elemental bloom almost always be 8 points lower as its a base +7 enhancement weapon while staff of shadows will probably be a +15 enhancement weapon, if all other bonus's are the same?

[Capricorpus]

The Warlock thing is kind of a bonus, I guess :P They're technically sorta divine!

I see why someone might think that, but warlock isn't divine at all. In 3.5 the class was introduced in complete arcane, and in one of the editions the PHB explicitly refers to warlocks as being arcane spellcasters ("the spells of wizards, warlocks, sorcerers, and bards are commonly called arcane magic").

[Lynnabel]

I see why someone might think that, but warlock isn't divine at all. In 3.5 the class was introduced in complete arcane, and in 5 the PHB explicitly refers to warlocks as being arcane spellcasters ("the spells of wizards, warlocks, sorcerers, and bards are commonly called arcane magic").

Handbook aside, I personally consider them roughly midway between divine and arcane, in the same way that I consider Artificers midway between martial and arcane. They have a Patron rather than a Deity, and a Pact rather than a religion, but their power is still from an outside source. They may cast Arcane spells, but (especially Enlightened Spirits, who actually can use the Aura of Menace) are sorta divine enough for me to fudge them into the script :P

[Chacka_DDO]

Old devs used to put an expanded critical range on the staffs because it's a weapon with no innate critical profile. It is very different to add critical range to weapons with innate critical range (that expand it even more), than to weapons without innate critical range (with that you only put them at the level of the rest of the weapons) Old designers understood that. That is why the named sticks had an expanded critical range, because staffs needed it to compete with the weapons that already have it!

I think it is questionable if the old developers really understood anything better.
When I now think about it, it was maybe a mistake to bring out any weapon with any improved critical profile but this is just only an objective view.
Because different and interesting critical profiles are also interesting and fun for me I'm not sure if I want to miss them in DDO.
But the big problem is that if a weapon doesn't have this interesting property everyone tells you: "meh that weapon is not good enough" we see it here again with the U40 weapons.

As you can see with some crude math, a weapon doesn't need to have an improved critical profile to perform similarly to a weapon that is improved in another way.
But does this change the base problem?
You have named weapons and basically, everything else (random drop and Cannith Crafting) is outdated after you introduce such weapons who are much more powerful.
I think we have to live with the current situation but there is no need to enforce the problem.
If players now demand they want weapons with more weapon dices and an improved critical profile, in addition, the answer should be no!
Of course, players always ask for more power for new items but at the end, they play also for different items with similar power just only to have them and even if the difference is only a new cool look.

You can introduce new weapons who are not more powerful than the old weapons we already have with improved critical profiles.
Therefore the new Staff of Shadows should be similar strong as the Elemental Bloom but don't have to be more powerful just only because it is a newer weapon or because the source is a raid.

This reminds me of the saying that nothing is older than the news from yesterday...
Of course, everyone is excited that you have new even more powerful items with the next update even more if they are powerful enough so that every moron can see they are better than the previous items.
But after a week, the excitement is gone and this new item is just the boring and now already old standard again.
And the negative consequences for DDO that all old items are now obsolete and unattractive remains for years.

That the developers now set Cannith Crafting as the standard is a step in the right direction
Just with the new level 28 and 29 items, they broke once again this standard
I just hope this will be the final standard and they don't go to introduce items with 21 or more strength etc.
And I hope that Cannith Crafting gets another update so crafted level 30 items can match this new standard.
And I hope they update old items to the new standard so it is attractive again to open a chest in an old quest and not just only for feeding your sentient gem.
I think this is a way that leads to a high-quality DDO even if it appears maybe a bit tedious on the first glance.

[Assassination]

Go Lynnabel!!!!!!!!!! A fan of the new loot and your work.

[Chacka_DDO]

Correct me if i'm wrong but shouldn't Elemental bloom almost always be 8 points lower as its a base +7 enhancement weapon while staff of shadows will probably be a +15 enhancement weapon, if all other bonus's are the same?

You are correct and there many more factors which I did not consider
Some factors like Seeker effects turn the tide even more to Elemental Bloom and effects for more critical thread range (class enhancements) turn the tide more to the Staff of Shadows.
And at a certain point the improved critical profile of the Elemental Bloom will outweigh the better dices of the Staff of Shadows for sure, the question is only if you reach the needed damage bonus.
I'm sorry that I don't do the exact calculation for you but maybe someone else is more industrious than me.
For me, it was just about to do a bit more realistic calculation for a better estimation.

[Yamani]

You are correct and there many more factors which I did not consider
Some factors like Seeker effects turn the tide even more to Elemental Bloom and effects for more critical thread range (class enhancements) turn the tide more to the Staff of Shadows.
And at a certain point the improved critical profile of the Elemental Bloom will outweigh the better dices of the Staff of Shadows for sure, the question is only if you reach the needed damage bonus.
I'm sorry that I don't do the exact calculation for you but maybe someone else is more industrious than me.
For me, it was just about to do a bit more realistic calculation for a better estimation.

I mean if they are both +100 and +100 it's pointless math as they both cancel each other out. So really all that matters for enhancement bonus is the difference of 15 and 7. Heck you could just add +8 to the staff of shadows and that would give you the same exact number of 100/92. *Do note this just being the crude math of looking for the core difference between the 2 base weapons*

[Jetrule]

Several updates have tried unsuccessfully to make caster staves a good option versus going two handed as a caster. I think the two caster staves here may cross the threshold for some builds. Bravo.

Spell singers, and to a lesser extent fey pact warlocks have seen some similar attempts at gear boosting (lilting song). The one thing they need but dont have is a enhancement spell power bonus on a piece of gear to compete with other elements and positive/negative currently available that put those spell powers 200 ahead at end game. Can it not be worked into the new bard cloak?

[Gemini-Dragon357]

Both armors are really lackluster for being raid items.

1) Mail of the Mroranon Medium Armor
Strength +20
PRR +52
Fortification 208%
Your Rage provides you with Energy Drain immunity for its duration.

The Belt of Mroranon item that this is based off of has a Vitality bonus. Someone suggested a unique bonus to constitution while raging as a way to spiff this up. Barbs already have a ton of health so I'm not sure if an extra +6 or +8 Con is the way to go. Perhaps something health regeneration related: 24 healing every 10 seconds (Enhancement bonus) while raging. Barbs have a ton of healing amp at cap, so 24 gets amp'd pretty high up there. (Legendary Greensteel gives a 16 enhancement bonus with an unconscious range extension)

2) Nullcloth Armor Heavy Armor
Nullmagic Guard (on being struck, has a chance to silence your foe)
PRR +52
Fortification 208%
Will Saves +16
Magical Null (15% penalty to spell failure)

Thematically, to go along with the magical nullification effects, I would have expected the PRR to be MRR. There are more non-armor places, for melees, to get 50+ PRR than MRR at the moment. Several other people suggested changing Will Saves to Parrying +9, I think that is also a necessary change to make it raid worthy. Parrying is a must have enhancement and currently all parrying +9 items are armors. The only parrying +8 item that isn't an armor is Cerulean Guard boots. (There are some older pre-U29 items with Parrying VIII.)

3) Wind Howler Mask
Insightful Dexterity +9
Relentless Fury
Doubleshot 12%
Tendon Slice, 16 seconds

This doesn't remind me of the original Bracers at all. Legendary Shrieking Bolt would be cool. Or even an Expert Marksmanship: +5 exceptional bonus to attack and damage with ranged weapons.

[scipiojedi]

No new named kamas?

We haven't had a new named one since the Druid Chain came out...4 years ago?

[btolson]

You guys are pushing that very effectively, don't worry. You've made your point very much heard

We'll talk it over, because we do want each weapon in this raid to feel special.

Not to pile on, but basically: staff builds have always relied on qstaffs with heavily modified ranges just to cling to 2nd tier DPS. They've never been #1, even with those expanded crit profiles. Qstaffs are just -that- terribad. And enhancements alone have never come close to closing the gap.



I would be totally fine if you wanted to nerf every named Qstaff to be 20x2 and change t5 TA/Hensin to give +3 threat and +2 multiplier (all competence) to all qstaffs though.

On the plus side, it would mean lots of crappy named qstaffs become usable.

On the minus side, it means any current qstaff build that doesn't take t5 TA/Hensin would get rammed up the hoohaa. RIP holy sword stick builds. Do people still play those? Idk.


Basically you guys have to pick between closing the gap by buffing *just* those two trees, or by continuing to buff the ranges on qstaffs themselves. For TAs/Hensins it's a wash. For any other stick builds that may exist, it matters a lot.

[Grace_ana]

Gauntlets of the Stormreaver Gloves

• Big huge Lightning Strike on Vorpal hits to your target
• Protection +16
• Insightful Sheltering +26
• Lightning Absorption +76
• Green Augment Slot
• Yellow Augment Slot

On Lama it is electric resistance 76. not absorption. I assume that is correct since it raises my resistance that amount. You might want to correct this post

[btolson]

Also eBloom, with its final crit profile of 15x4, is almost dead even with Sireth and its 13x3 profile and 1d10 [W].

So essentially we are comparing U40 raid loot to U14 raid loot, and deciding the upgrade is marginal.

[janave]

You guys are pushing that very effectively, don't worry. You've made your point very much heard

We'll talk it over, because we do want each weapon in this raid to feel special.

Except the bow right? which is the last one left with nothing exceptional or special on it....

We arent playing bow builds because they are super successful, but because the archetype is popular.

Then, when i join a meta (or call it high reaper) group on my bow guy who happens to be my main, they ask me if i brought an LGS shuriken.

....then we keep getting bows worth sentinent exp.

[MasterKernel]

It's the Staff of Shadows - the timeshattered version of the Sword of Shadows, a weapon that leverages dice and crit and being adamantine to simply numerically outpace its competitors. Adding something to the staff would be a disservice to the original.

So… What about the Staff of the Shadow that we've already got in the game ? Because having 2 different items under the same name is not confusing at all.