Intimidate Useless

[Vallin]

Serious question on intim:

It seems that it would be nice to get an ACTUAL explanation of what intimidate is supposed to accomplish. People throw around the concept of 'WAI' as if they know what intended actually is.

Is intimidation supposed to be an easy button that you press and then turtle up while other people bring ruin and damage upon a mobs head with no risk of damage or attention? Is it some super ninja jedi mind trick like "You don't feel that 3000 point disintegrate that just drilled a hole in the back of your skull. Here, look at my fancy shield!"

Or is it supposed to be a more dynamic skill that can be used to actively switch mob behavior within a combat context - sometimes holding aggro only for a while?

So - what is 'intended' - and not 'what do we want it to be?'

Vallin.

[Phax]

We will be making bug fixes to U9 before it goes live.

[grodon9999]

We will be making bug fixes to U9 before it goes live.

Thank you, but can you please clarify if what was observed is indeed a bug?

[voodoogroves]

Thank you, but can you please clarify if what was observed is indeed a bug?

heh

that amused me ... and I have to spread some rep before I +1 you again, it seems ...

[Eladrin]

A successful use of the intimidate skill should now set your threat with the monster equal to the highest threat opponent plus a small buffer based on your (size modified) intimidate skill. You should also gain a short duration +50% threat multiplier to all attacks (melee, ranged, and spells) for a short period after successful intimidation that stacks with all other threat modifiers. If you are using a weapon and shield, the buffer and threat multiplier are doubled (and the threat modifier lasts longer).

Intimidate should also be triggering target reevaluation by the monster, and since you're on the top of the monster's threat list, it should turn to you. (Assuming it cares about such things. Most zombies, for instance, have completely random aggro.)

[Asketes]

We will be making bug fixes to U9 before it goes live.

A successful use of the intimidate skill should now set your threat with the monster equal to the highest threat opponent plus a small buffer based on your (size modified) intimidate skill. You should also gain a short duration +50% threat multiplier to all attacks (melee, ranged, and spells) for a short period after successful intimidation that stacks with all other threat modifiers. If you are using a weapon and shield, the buffer and threat multiplier are doubled (and the threat modifier lasts longer).

Intimidate should also be triggering target reevaluation by the monster, and since you're on the top of the monster's threat list, it should turn to you. (Assuming it cares about such things. Most zombies, for instance, have completely random aggro.)

tyvm for the update Phax & Eladrin!


awesome that you guys are keeping us informed

appreciate it

[Tirisha]

The thing is . . . if all this does is add a hate modifier . . . and your build can currently hold aggro now . . . then what is the point of training this at all?

My fighter is a stalwart hate tank (Link in my sig) who's intim tops at about 60 (could get more if I geared up, but now why bother). But between Epic Claw bonus, Stalwart set, and the hate gen from Stalwart II stance he right now can hold aggro over a 90 STR maxxed-barbarian using a Devil's Ruin ESoS.

Intim was great as it was, it was wonderful for stuff like controlling the orthons in VoD but now that's completely useless.

That fact that it needs to be a success to add hate sucks. If it added a flat percentage of hate generation based on your intim number (say an intim of 45 added 45% more hate) this might be remotely useful but as it's currently implemented in U9 it's worthless.

I guess its fine because my fighter could use the skill points somewhere else.

You're right it's not gonna help Hate tanks (I guess really terrible ones O.o) it's just gonna make intim tanks hate tanks. Don't bother with Damage Mitigation just max out your dps throw in a little hp here and call yourself a tank. I love having all my builds pigeon holed into what Turbine wants thank you turbine it was foolish of me too not make a dps tank in the first place considering that intim tanking is sooooo overpowered that many power gamers prefer a DPS hp sponge anyways.

[IronClan]

[edit] nm two more devs commented... not sure what to make of Eladrin's post... sounds like they turned intim into a hate tank or DPS build only skill, and said "sucks to be you DoS Palidins and S&B Salwarts, you can buy a heart of wood in the store to fix the mistake we turned your build into".

[grodon9999]

A successful use of the intimidate skill should now set your threat with the monster equal to the highest threat opponent plus a small buffer based on your (size modified) intimidate skill. You should also gain a short duration +50% threat multiplier to all attacks (melee, ranged, and spells) for a short period after successful intimidation that stacks with all other threat modifiers. If you are using a weapon and shield, the buffer and threat multiplier are doubled (and the threat modifier lasts longer).

Thank you, so sword and bored threat-tanking could be viable unless you're one of those gimps who put level-ups in CHR. 100% threat + 50% from stance and other junk should be fine (correct me if I'm wrong . . .).

I know several intimitank-FvS who are crying right now . . .

Intimidate should also be triggering target reevaluation by the monster, and since you're on the top of the monster's threat list, it should turn to you. (Assuming it cares about such things. Most zombies, for instance, have completely random aggro.)

So it is bugged, got it.

[LordDamax]

A successful use of the intimidate skill should now set your threat with the monster equal to the highest threat opponent plus a small buffer based on your (size modified) intimidate skill. You should also gain a short duration +50% threat multiplier to all attacks (melee, ranged, and spells) for a short period after successful intimidation that stacks with all other threat modifiers. If you are using a weapon and shield, the buffer and threat multiplier are doubled (and the threat modifier lasts longer).

Intimidate should also be triggering target reevaluation by the monster, and since you're on the top of the monster's threat list, it should turn to you. (Assuming it cares about such things. Most zombies, for instance, have completely random aggro.)

Zombies should always aggro on the char with the highest int. Makes sense to go after the largest, tastiest brain

[voodoogroves]

Thank you, so sword and bored threat-tanking could be viable unless you're one of those gimps who put level-ups in CHR. 100% threat + 50% from stance and other junk should be fine (correct me if I'm wrong . . .).

I know several intimitank-FvS who are crying right now . . .



So it is bugged, got it.

With the cool-down increased, intimidate as a means to increase threat is good. Shift-tanking though, that might be dead. You'll need to do DPS of some sort to hold aggro.

[lugoman]

Human 34 point (past life fighter) with 8 base Charisma

[SNIP]

76 unbuffed

1-yugo pot
4-gh clicky
1-ship buff(+2 cha)
___
82 self buffed w/good buffs*

1-potion of influence 90sec (+2 cha alc bonus)
3-potion of eagles's skill +3 120sec (+3 cha skills alc bonus)
2-bard skill song
___
88 situationally buffed (no need to do these)

5-skill boost 20 sec
___
93 ghetto buffed (no need to do this)

* 80 is all you need atm to non fail in the game . I think that number belongs to HoX elite iirc. 79 is the magic number for epic demon queen and everything else in the game, for the moment, is below this. Imo once you get a couple over 80 the rest is meaningless. You could also get another 2 more intim by taking bullheaded but again for me it was worthless.

Higher than no fail intim should be useful if they ever get the new system working correctly. It was never explained exactly, but it sounded like you get a bonus based on your intim score. Whether this means more hate or more time for the hate buffer after intiming - I dont know.

[grodon9999]

You're right it's not gonna help Hate tanks (I guess really terrible ones O.o) it's just gonna make intim tanks hate tanks. Don't bother with Damage Mitigation just max out your dps throw in a little hp here and call yourself a tank.

See . . . you don't have to do that. Mine's got 85 TWFing AC and when I'm done he'll break 90 with mid 700 HP. as he is now he can be held up in hard ToD with one healer casting scrolls with a heal needed when only if he roles a 1 on a disintegrate. Somebody else posted a Horc build similar to mine a few weeks ago on the forums.

The problem is Turbine's incredibly silly game design that makes AC no longer work in epics. Yet they'll then give bosses no true seeing and incredibly slow attack speeds . . .

I love having all my builds pigeon holed into what Turbine wants thank you turbine it was foolish of me too not make a dps tank in the first place considering that intim tanking is sooooo overpowered that many power gamers prefer a DPS hp sponge anyways.

It does seem like they want us playing nothing but half-orc monks and barbarians doesn't it?

Good intimitanks took a ton of work to build and equip and SHOULD be as useful as they are, especially since they are niche builds ideal for only a few quests/raids.

[Asketes]

the OP really needs to put Phax and Eladrin's post in post #1

[Drfirewater79]

Fantastic. Better be a bug or else I'm not sure what I'm going to do with a character I spent dozens of hours planning and months gearing.

Get it right, Turbine.

AC and Intimidate builds are useless now .. but high dps and intimidate builds are just as useless as they where before.

SO the option is have a intimidate that doesnt work and a AC that is useless cause the mobs dont go after you OR have high dps and intimidate so mobs never miss hitting you and have casters pull aggro anyway cause now SORCS do 10k+ damage per hit.

They should just delete this whole update and try again. Nothing good comes from this at all ... the 6 hours i spent on lama made me seriously think about never playing 80% of my characters ever again. LRs arent cheap ... and i sure as hell dont plan to spend 50$ every two months because TURBINE cant figure out how to balance there game properly.


---------------
AFTER READING ELADRINS POST

glad to see its been fixed or being fixed .. now if only we can hear how elemental attuning for WIZARDS who dont have the completely overpowered PREs are being handled ... since firewall doesnt work in 80% of the end game content and now i cannot spec in two elements unless i want to give up my PRE completely i wonder how balance is gonna work out for everyone else (especially dex build monks which i tested for nearly 6 hours yesterday making me want to not play my monk any more when this goes live.)

[Uska]

A successful use of the intimidate skill should now set your threat with the monster equal to the highest threat opponent plus a small buffer based on your (size modified) intimidate skill. You should also gain a short duration +50% threat multiplier to all attacks (melee, ranged, and spells) for a short period after successful intimidation that stacks with all other threat modifiers. If you are using a weapon and shield, the buffer and threat multiplier are doubled (and the threat modifier lasts longer).

Intimidate should also be triggering target reevaluation by the monster, and since you're on the top of the monster's threat list, it should turn to you. (Assuming it cares about such things. Most zombies, for instance, have completely random aggro.)

Thank you sir.

[Sanadil]

I submitted my bug report via the link in Thoon's signature.

[Sanadil]

the OP really needs to put Phax and Eladrin's post in post #1

Done

[Asketes]

Done

ty ty

[Coldin]

Nice to hear from Eladrin how it should work, which indeed makes this currently bugged. I bug reported yesterday as well.


((I wonder if anyone checked diplomacy and if that is working correctly.))