Intimidate Useless

[Sanadil]

Video (Includes an body pull and someone doing damage before intim goes off):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PshlCqRhfjw

So I'm sitting with a 70 intim atm. Did a few things.

First:

Let a caster take aggro of a mob. Then I intim'd attempting to take the mob off. Its supposed to put me to the highest threat level, and give some bonus as yet undetermined, based on my intim score.

So take a wild guess what the mob did.

Nothing, absolutely nothing, it stuck like glue on the caster, no matter what I did. If I hit the mob, intimed it like 5 more times...with my 15 second cool down, no turning on me.

Second:

I started by intiming the mob, did so 5 times before letting the caster go at it. How long did it take for the caster to pull the mob off me? 1 Hit.

Third:

I started by intiming, then hitting the mob. Did so 5 times before letting the caster go at it. How long did it take for the caster to pull the mob off me? 2 Hits.


70 Intim, not fully buffed, but doesn't seem like the number matters at all now. Once the caster gained aggro, there was no way I was getting it off them, no matter what I did.

Porting devils and orthons, still will randomly switch aggro, it seems the whole threat list gets reset still, after they port.

As it stands right now, intim does nothing, and you might as well shelve any character you have that uses it.

UPDATE 1:

A successful use of the intimidate skill should now set your threat with the monster equal to the highest threat opponent plus a small buffer based on your (size modified) intimidate skill. You should also gain a short duration +50% threat multiplier to all attacks (melee, ranged, and spells) for a short period after successful intimidation that stacks with all other threat modifiers. If you are using a weapon and shield, the buffer and threat multiplier are doubled (and the threat modifier lasts longer).

Intimidate should also be triggering target reevaluation by the monster, and since you're on the top of the monster's threat list, it should turn to you. (Assuming it cares about such things. Most zombies, for instance, have completely random aggro.)

We will be making bug fixes to U9 before it goes live.

UPDATE 2:

We think we've found the problem - the buffer wasn't applying correctly. (In fact, it was zero if the opposing creature was equal or greater in size to you.)


You buffer should be equal to your size modified intimidate score, multiplied by two if you're using a shield. This counts as "melee" threat, so effects that amplify melee threat apply.

A monster that has been intimidated will not reevaluate targets on its own for at least five seconds. (If someone forces reevaluation, then it will occur as expected.) Monsters that select targets randomly should still target the intimidator.

Intimidate applies one of the following effects after the threat modification occurs:

Intimidating Presence
You have successfully used the intimidate skill, and gain a 50% bonus to the threat generated by your melee attacks, missile attacks, and spells, making monsters more likely to attack you for a short time. (6 seconds)

Intimidating Presence (Shield)
You have successfully used the intimidate skill, and gain a 100% bonus to the threat generated by your melee attacks, missile attacks, and spells, making monsters more likely to attack you for a short time. (12 seconds)

UPDATE 3:

Eladrin, after intimidate sets you to the top of the DPS list, do you remain there? That is, let's say the barbarian has 150 hate when you hit intimidate. You go to 150 + buffer. If the barbarian stops attacking, you retain aggro with your 150 + buffer, or do you drop back to your previous hate? Or does it degrade? Can you use just intimidate to hold the aggro of a monster this is no longer being attacked? [/COLOR]

The hate does not degrade.

UPDATE 4:

Could it have really been just the buffer? From testing, Intimidate did not grab aggro at all. If it was just the buffer, I would expect to still have the top threat for that monster.

You would end up tied with the other player, and the monster would stick with their original target.

Try it against kobolds, and it'll work (though the buffer will still be much smaller than it should be).

Yes, thanks for the clarification. I understand the goal appears to be to make S&B a viable strategy, but what does this do to shield-blocking characters? Are we going to be able to maintain aggro without dealing damage?

If your allies are attacking the monster, it'll be difficult to retain aggro while standing there shield-blocking, unless your DPS are taking some of the burden of threat management onto themselves. (Which we find desirable, by the way!)

If you intimidate a monster and people aren't attacking it, it will stay on you indefinitely now. (You're actually on top of the threat list instead of just being temporarily on top.) This could be useful in some situations.

If you intimidate a monster and then the former target uses diplomacy, your coordination will be paid off with a significantly larger threat buffer. DPS can also use Bluff to enable sneak attacks and reduce their personal threat contribution.

Odds are, however, that if you intimidate a monster and then attack while you have your threat multipliers active you'll have the best chance of holding the monster for an extended period of time.

Not sure if damage is really a 1:1 ratio to threat.

By default, damage is a 1:1 ratio to threat.

Does that mean the modified intimidate not only remains useful against Lailat but will also work on Arraetrikos?

Rarely, some monsters are scripted to occasionally select a second target for certain actions. Intimidate will not prevent these "off main target" attacks.

The hate does not degrade.

Isn't that Khyber's motto?

[Sanadil]

Video will be following this shortly.

Found that even if someone just body pulls a mob, no hitting, and you intim, it won't pull the mob off them.

[Burtle]

Hmm... now why am I NOT surprised

[Dragavon]

Sounds like a bug to me

[TheDearLeader]

Video will be following this shortly.

Found that even if someone just body pulls a mob, no hitting, and you intim, it won't pull the mob off them.

Can we get a test on Melee Hate?

I'm on Lammania now as Kiarnan, 20 Fighter, if you want my assistance.

[quityourjobs]

intim does nothing, and you might as well shelve any character you have that uses it.

Don't overreact or anything...

We think we've found the problem - the buffer wasn't applying correctly. (In fact, it was zero if the opposing creature was equal or greater in size to you.)


You buffer should be equal to your size modified intimidate score, multiplied by two if you're using a shield. This counts as "melee" threat, so effects that amplify melee threat apply.

A monster that has been intimidated will not reevaluate targets on its own for at least five seconds. (If someone forces reevaluation, then it will occur as expected.) Monsters that select targets randomly should still target the intimidator.

Intimidate applies one of the following effects after the threat modification occurs:

Intimidating Presence
You have successfully used the intimidate skill, and gain a 50% bonus to the threat generated by your melee attacks, missile attacks, and spells, making monsters more likely to attack you for a short time. (6 seconds)

Intimidating Presence (Shield)
You have successfully used the intimidate skill, and gain a 100% bonus to the threat generated by your melee attacks, missile attacks, and spells, making monsters more likely to attack you for a short time. (12 seconds)

Obviously it was a bug. But that didn't stop two knee-jerkers from neg repping this comment. Thanks.

[Aeolwind]

Don't overreact or anything...

Fairly certain the hyperbole is based on the apparent fact that once something goes on Lam, very little changes between then and release.

This could mean then +incite effects weren't WAI as they said before. At which point, this fix becomes far more massive.

[TheDearLeader]

Don't overreact or anything...

I'm sorry, its SP cost was reduced. You should be casting a lot more DOOOOOOOM than I hear in this statement.

[01000010]

not sure what the actual point of lamania is, nothing im aware of gets fixed b4 it goes live thats broken on lamania, maybe its so they get a head start figuring out the problem so rather than waiting 2 months after main server updates for a patch it only takes 1 month?

[phalaeo]

Fantastic. Better be a bug or else I'm not sure what I'm going to do with a character I spent dozens of hours planning and months gearing.

Get it right, Turbine.

[Franke]

This is sounding great....all that grind....*sigh*
Here's hoping it's just a bug or I need to rework my intimi :/

[Sanadil]

Can we get a test on Melee Hate?

I'm on Lammania now as Kiarnan, 20 Fighter, if you want my assistance.

I was beat last night and had to crash after that. Today is Family day, won't be on the game. I can give it a shot on Monday with ya. I don't see hate tanking as changing so much, unless of course a sorc goes nuts and does repeated 1000+ damage in a row to pull the aggro off you.

[azrael4h]

Does Paladin's Divine Righteousness still work? At least I never did get around to grinding out intimidate gear for my Pally. Looks like I can ignore it indefinitely.

[Sanadil]

OP updated with video link.

[J1NG]

The original posters experience is exactly the same one I found on my intim.

VERY unflattering if you ask me what Turbine has done to Shield Intim users.

J1NG

[LordDamax]

I have a shield-blocking based intim guy, lots of guards. He is NOT specced to do damage, he's specced to keep aggro via intim. Since Turbine has NEVER made it viable to block with a shield AND do damage at the same time, he doesnt do damage but for guards. And they dont go off enough to hold aggro.

Looks like that guy is completely scrapped.

Annoying when cool concepts are taken away and the pigeonholing gets worse.

[twix]

This is the first change ive seen that im not too crazy about... they broke intmitanking

[Aeolwind]

Just to ask, did you have a shield out? I can't watch the vid from work.

Apparently according to the notes a shield is supposed to give even more threat. Appears it is broken completely though from your description. Shield or not.

[MrWizard]

no dev post, one must think this is intended or they would have explained something by now..

oh well, intim in the closet of lost nerfs (batman,cloudkill/fogs, symbols, etc)

unless a dev actually speaks to this...lol


one can only hope....yea right.

[J1NG]

I can't believe for a moment that it is working as intended.

To give a bonus to intimidating whilst using a shield is saying that it should have some effect.

But right now, it doesn't do squat. So it sounds more like they broke intimidate. More testing is needed, but I don't have an intim and damage dealer in Lamannia I'm afraid.

J1NG