Warlock NERF Again

[BigErkyKid]

Feel free to breakdown the prr coming from the warlock class itself. It's minimal.

So far I've solo'd slavers chain on warlock, wizard, barbarian, kensai, tempest, fvs, bard.

Maxing con vs. another stat is really just a diff of 7-10 pts now with slavers gear. It's not much of a dps loss for many builds at all as a %.

All casters have the same disadvantages with shield feats. Wizard obviously has more room for those feats.

Warlock is not broken from a power perspective. It's very easy for a new/casual player to pick up and learn if the devs think that is a problem. That doesn't make it more powerful.

OK, then hat tip to you. You have soloed the LE end fight of part 3 on a kensei, a barb, and a tempest?

I haven't been able to do that on my previous melee life, a barb. You clearly have some superior skills, or there is some cheese in that fight, or else. I will try when I cap on a kensei. Now, I'll be honest with you, at the moment I am doubting your word.

I assume that warlock, wizard, fvs, and bard were caster based.

As for the PRR, CON, etc. You obviously understand me. The point is that the warlock packs so much innate DPS that you can go for CON, PRR with shield, and generally more survivability without losing nearly as much DPS as with other classes. Denying that is an absurd and I hence when spend time arguing over it.

[Angelic-council]

yes but not because he is a bad player - it was just a build choice on his part. He is a very good sarlona player.

You can also get higher dps than that with just about ANY class.

Oh yes, what's really interesting tho. Just about every spell has a delay and hit boxes. Enemies can move during your casting and sometimes, it miss - or you can use that against them. Playing tactical by the rhythm will potentially increase your DPS, killing speed (assuming you know what to expect).

I don't really judge player, but I don't understand this one thing... How could someone be very good, if he/she is not using every possible tactics. For example: ranged build, why jump so many times and I clearly see him miss couple of attacks, missing potential DPS. Or warlock, very slow in his approach, not using hit box momentum. Sorry, don't want to sound selfish, but ugh... Once you die, it's a zero DPS. But there are multiple ways how you can survive.. Warlocks are very amazing class, they have good synergy with light and charisma. Making them really powerful in EA and providing them massive crit damage. My regular eldritch attack deals over 3k damage per shot (when crit/high DC/high crit chance). That is better than other arcane using heroic offensive spells + many many more that given to warlocks. Those things are what make warlocks powerful, and from what I seen, many people don't play them using high DPS builds. I personally don't mind warlocks to be the way they are now, but... what do we know. I'm excited to see how people would play in reaper mode.

[boredman]

[Ellihor]

What you dont see in Update 33 is that they have nerf'd Warlock again driving more players like myself from wanting to continue to play this game. As a VIP member, and left several years ago due to other NERF's, seems like Turbine does not plan to increase its player base. The Thelanis server in which i play on doesnt have as near as many players as it use to. so lets get on with this and talk about the Warlock Nerf.

In Update 33 Release Notes: they nerfed the amount of temporary hitpoints you get from 12x to 8x. furthermore, what they didnt put on the Release notes is that they reduced the blast from 150% to 100%.

So im asking if we can get an explanation on why this was nerf'd and why do they keep giving reasons for players to continue to leave this game. How about we stop with the Updates for more content and take the game back to the way it was when people were proud to play the game and actually enjoy'd playing it.

Warlock has been nerf'd so much that its no surprise that I will be TR'ing out of it as soon as i get to 30!

While you think nerfing Warlock drive plaers out, there are many players like me who quitted and nerfing warlock would be one thing that could bring us back. They should remove shinning throught completely, the free temporary hp from the aura and the 20% capstone, to start with, and we're talking.

[Ellihor]

Feel free to breakdown the prr coming from the warlock class itself. It's minimal.

If it's minimal, make them use light armor. Why the heck can warlocks use medium armor for 2 AP? Meh, make them walk in pajamas, that would only be just. And remove all the temporary HP stuff and the 20% hp capstone that makes no sense to be on a caster tree. They should have either less DPS than sorc, or less survivability.

[slarden]

Oh yes, what's really interesting tho. Just about every spell has a delay and hit boxes. Enemies can move during your casting and sometimes, it miss - or you can use that against them. Playing tactical by the rhythm will potentially increase your DPS, killing speed (assuming you know what to expect).

I don't really judge player, but I don't understand this one thing... How could someone be very good, if he/she is not using every possible tactics. For example: ranged build, why jump so many times and I clearly see him miss couple of attacks, missing potential DPS. Or warlock, very slow in his approach, not using hit box momentum. Sorry, don't want to sound selfish, but ugh... Once you die, it's a zero DPS. But there are multiple ways how you can survive.. Warlocks are very amazing class, they have good synergy with light and charisma. Making them really powerful in EA and providing them massive crit damage. My regular eldritch attack deals over 3k damage per shot (when crit/high DC/high crit chance). That is better than other arcane using heroic offensive spells + many many more that given to warlocks. Those things are what make warlocks powerful, and from what I seen, many people don't play them using high DPS builds. I personally don't mind warlocks to be the way they are now, but... what do we know. I'm excited to see how people would play in reaper mode.

He tanks LE raids. He is a very good player.

Yes I prefer charisma warlock myself. With proper movement you can mitigate alot of damage and maximize damage. Let's face it - these high defense builds are the result of how hard things hit in LE shroud.

I get big damage out of magic missle slas and chain lightning. Those are longer range and it's a different playstyle but are just as effective. I agree the eld burst and spirit blast are nice - it's about the only advantage a warlock has is bursting mobs but it also puts them in close range with enemies unlike longer range spells. They are weaker on dc, feat starved and weaker on single-target damage. Their defenses are good, but you get sold defenses on a dps caster with a /3 fighter or paladin splash.

[slarden]

If it's minimal, make them use light armor. Why the heck can warlocks use medium armor for 2 AP? Meh, make them walk in pajamas, that would only be just. And remove all the temporary HP stuff and the 20% hp capstone that makes no sense to be on a caster tree. They should have either less DPS than sorc, or less survivability.

Check out some builds on the sorc thread if you are struggling to figure out how to do solid dps with a sorc. Others are doing solid dps with sorc.

You take a lot less damage when casting magic missles and chain lightning compared to close range bursts. Medium armor is available in tier 4 of one tree and it's the tree where the slas are close range. It's meant to be a tanky build.

Wizard and Sorc also have medium armor available in tier 4 but realistically it's more common to see / 3 pal or 3 fighter splashes for the 20% hp boost, prr /mrr boost and heavy armor proficiency for people that want high defenese. A wizard/sorc using a race that has arcane spell failure reduction can actually use heavy armor with no arcane spell failure with a 6 pt spend in eld knight. Warlock doesn't have that.

[slarden]

Now, I'll be honest with you, at the moment I am doubting your word.

From time to time I've taken these forum challenges, but given how little credibility you have I won't waste my time.

People that run with me know what I do in game. I don't need to prove anything.

The point is that the warlock packs so much innate DPS that you can go for CON, PRR with shield, and generally more survivability without losing nearly as much DPS as with other classes. Denying that is an absurd and I hence when spend time arguing over it.

The innate dps an ES warlock has is two bursts with 5 second cooldowns and an aura that ticks every 2 seconds.

That's 4-5 attacks every 5 seconds. To really compare dps you would have to not just look at the damage # but the total damage in a 5 second period. Are you seriously saying an ES warlock has the top innate dps in the game?

As for dumping main stat.... About 30-35% of the warlock damage is subject to a save. So dumping charisma is a 15% or so dps loss, but you are also losing dps on energy burst, hellball, divine wrath.

I don't bother with shield feats on my warlock because I have the past lifes and good gear. I also don't dump charisma. My sorc does take shield feats and splashes /3 fighter because I lack the past lifes. I don't dump charisma.

[Forzah]

The thread title should have been "Nerf warlock again".

[BigErkyKid]

From time to time I've taken these forum challenges, but given how little credibility you have I won't waste my time.

People that run with me know what I do in game. I don't need to prove anything.



The innate dps an ES warlock has is two bursts with 5 second cooldowns and an aura that ticks every 2 seconds.

That's 4-5 attacks every 5 seconds. To really compare dps you would have to not just look at the damage # but the total damage in a 5 second period. Are you seriously saying an ES warlock has the top innate dps in the game?

As for dumping main stat.... About 30-35% of the warlock damage is subject to a save. So dumping charisma is a 15% or so dps loss, but you are also losing dps on energy burst, hellball, divine wrath.

I don't bother with shield feats on my warlock because I have the past lifes and good gear. I also don't dump charisma. My sorc does take shield feats and splashes /3 fighter because I lack the past lifes. I don't dump charisma.

Let's be clear: warlock, as in the typical defensive build, is not a great end game build. And by that I mean the current top 3 raids and that's it. A tiny fraction of the game that can be played in lh just fine.

More dps oriented warlocks have been shown to do well even in those scenarios, but they aren't the con based absurdity.

Now warlocks in absolutely any quest of the game, and older raids, absolutely demolish. It's not the players' skill, it's the class.

You don't need to go full ham con either, I have played plenty chat oriented that survived just fine.

Yes, the 3 aoe s innate to warlock, plus energy burst and hellball, obliterate the trash in any quest. You don't even need to think much, it's like cheat mode. I have done it and seen it done countless times in any single quest in the game. Mana management is not an issue, neither is mob invulnerability. In a few seconds huge packs of mobs are dead without targeting or strategy.

If you try that with an under geared non es warlock, you will die more, but that's beyond the point.


Now when you say it's not warlock, anyone can be as survivable, you are very conveniently neglecting that this comes with a huge caveat. No other class on the game can keep that kind of durability and still deal so much decent dps.

Of course I was polite in how I phrased that I don't believe you when you said you soloed the end part LE of part 3 in slavers on a barb. Saying you did that on a kensei is funny too. Unless you are talking about some sort of kiting build, I don't think that's possible. Aside from tree builds I haven't seen or heard in game of anyone achieving that. Having tried myself, and seeing the mechanics of the fight, I just won't believe it until I see it.

Comments on my credibility are at most funny. A nice attempt to turn this nasty, but dont you worry your pretty little head, I am going to keep commenting on this an other threads as I see fit regardless of whether that irks you.

[morkahn82]

warlock still op, so idc.

[Forzah]

This movie says enough. Warlock survivability needs to be toned down much more. You can just stand still, press heal every few seconds, and wait for everything to die. This is not a sane development choice for any game.

[Requiro]

While you think nerfing Warlock drive plaers out, there are many players like me who quitted and nerfing warlock would be one thing that could bring us back. They should remove shinning throught completely, the free temporary hp from the aura and the 20% capstone, to start with, and we're talking.

If destroying other players happiness and remove their class from game is what would bring you back to game then... Good luck in other game, sir.

But please stop complain about game where you don't play anymore. Noone care what you think if you don't play DDO. You are not customer anymore.

<snip>

Slarden, they are immune to arguments.

This movie says enough. Warlock survivability needs to be toned down much more. You can just stand still, press heal every few seconds, and wait for everything to die. This is not a sane development choice for any game.

Hmmm... like Necromancer in Diablo 2? Very popular class.

[Rys]

Slarden, they are immune to arguments.

I have soloed this and that without even posting a screenshot isn't an argument. There is a lot of imaginary uberness on these boards.

He lost it right there:

People have already linked videos of other classes soloing that end fight - there is no need for me to repeat it.

Is it ok to ask others to provide any 'proof' while he doesn't deliver anything either?

Feel free to provide proof rather than just ranting.

And no, I am not for nerfing the warlock.

[Wizza]

People have already linked videos of other classes soloing that end fight - there is no need for me to repeat it.

Can you link, please? I cannot find it anywhere, nor here nor on youtube. In fact, on youtube there are 5 videos of the endfight on LE: Rys and I's video; warlock solo from Voodu; the fail attempt from Thazara; Shiradi zombie from Edwart and lastly, a tree build completing it by ihrlie.

If someone already linked it, it should be no problem for you to quote it. I, and apparently everyone else here, cannot find them.

So far I've solo'd slavers chain on warlock, wizard, barbarian, kensai, tempest, fvs, bard.

On which difficulty? Do you have any screenshots? Not a video, just a screnshoot.

From time to time I've taken these forum challenges, but given how little credibility you have I won't waste my time.

People that run with me know what I do in game. I don't need to prove anything.

You accuse his credibility, but yet fail to give any proof of yours other than words. No different than anyone else, who asks for videos without providing them themselves.

You are not having a discussion with people that run with you in game, hence if you want to make a point, you need to provide some facts (videos or screenshots in this case).

[Forzah]

Hmmm... like Necromancer in Diablo 2? Very popular class.

With similar reasoning as this you can justify murder. The fact that someone else does something too doesn't make it right.

[Vanhooger]

Check out some builds on the sorc thread if you are struggling to figure out how to do solid dps with a sorc. Others are doing solid dps with sorc.

You take a lot less damage when casting magic missles and chain lightning compared to close range bursts. Medium armor is available in tier 4 of one tree and it's the tree where the slas are close range. It's meant to be a tanky build.

Wizard and Sorc also have medium armor available in tier 4 but realistically it's more common to see / 3 pal or 3 fighter splashes for the 20% hp boost, prr /mrr boost and heavy armor proficiency for people that want high defenese. A wizard/sorc using a race that has arcane spell failure reduction can actually use heavy armor with no arcane spell failure with a 6 pt spend in eld knight. Warlock doesn't have that.

I was playing 20 sorc till saturday, and I did had light armor from EK, but it's an heavy investment cos sorc need a second savant tree to cover main element immune mobs, so if you go EK you give up second element so trade off.

Warlock get that without many problem as ES give you lots of light power, additional MRR/PRR, temp hp, there's no trade off, you get everything.

I agree with you Sorc can deal lot of damage that's they're role, BUT every single thing they cast cost SP, that's the trade off. Also they can find mob immune or highly resistant to they're element everywhere.

Warlock use FREE automatic aura or blast (unlimited use), 2 FREE burst (unlimited use), with no save (light and devil) canno't be reduced 99% of mobs (if you find the 1% mobs with MRR just switch to force) , and half damage on pact if they save. No trade off.

Warlock can burn all they're mana bar with hellball and ruin for bosses as they won't need it much for trash.

In the end sorc does big dps with tradeoff, warlock does big dps without trade off. But that's all cool.

[Iriale]

I was playing 20 sorc till saturday, and I did had light armor from EK, but it's an heavy investment cos sorc need a second savant tree to cover main element immune mobs, so if you go EK you give up second element so trade off.

Warlock get that without many problem as ES give you lots of light power, additional MRR/PRR, temp hp, there's no trade off, you get everything.

I agree with you Sorc can deal lot of damage that's they're role, BUT every single thing they cast cost SP, that's the trade off. Also they can find mob immune or highly resistant to they're element everywhere.

Warlock use FREE automatic aura or blast (unlimited use), 2 FREE burst (unlimited use), with no save (light and devil) canno't be reduced 99% of mobs (if you find the 1% mobs with MRR just switch to force) , and half damage on pact if they save. No trade off.

Warlock can burn all they're mana bar with hellball and ruin for bosses as they won't need it much for trash.

In the end sorc does big dps with tradeoff, warlock does big dps without trade off. But that's all cool.

I agree with you that the warlock is in a better position than all other magic-users. But keep in mind that these have not had their pass yet. If the devs were working in the magic classes pass there would be fewer complaints with the warlock. The warlock is not so out of line with other enhanced classes; but it is with all who have not had the pass. The problem is there is no date for that and is going to be a long wait (we know that will not be in 2017)

The devs should speed up the pass and postpone things like reaper mode that anyway they can not balance well without finishing the passes. But they do not, and until they do, the imbalance between the warlock and all other magic classes will generate a lot of anger and envy.

Of course, if the pass of magic classes is like the monk pass, little will solve...

---

I do not think a nerf to warlock now to be the best solution. I think devs should first improve the other classes and then compare. But it is absurd that some players try to convince people that there is no unbalance currently. There is, the warlock is better. It is because the other classes have not had their pass, but there is.

[Eth]

Of course I was polite in how I phrased that I don't believe you when you said you soloed the end part LE of part 3 in slavers on a barb. Saying you did that on a kensei is funny too. Unless you are talking about some sort of kiting build, I don't think that's possible. Aside from tree builds I haven't seen or heard in game of anyone achieving that. Having tried myself, and seeing the mechanics of the fight, I just won't believe it until I see it.

Had no issue soloing the end fight first try on my melee. I also don't know why you doubt you can do that on a kensai or barb.

[Vanhooger]

I agree with you that the warlock is in a better position than all other magic-users. But keep in mind that these have not had their pass yet. If the devs were working in the magic classes pass there would be fewer complaints with the warlock. The warlock is not so out of line with other enhanced classes; but it is with all who have not had the pass. The problem is there is no date for that and is going to be a long wait (we know that will not be in 2017)

The devs should speed up the pass and postpone things like reaper mode that anyway they can not balance well without finishing the passes. But they do not, and until they do, the imbalance between the warlock and all other magic classes will generate a lot of anger and envy.

Of course, if the pass of magic classes is like the monk pass, little will solve...

---

I do not think a nerf to warlock now to be the best solution. I think devs should first improve the other classes and then compare. But it is absurd that some players try to convince people that there is no unbalance currently. There is, the warlock is better. It is because the other classes have not had their pass, but there is.

That's true but I don't want a god mode sorc with a pass. I like trade off. Warlock currently doesn't have it. So it's unbalanced.
Playing a fleshy sorc takes a minimum of skill, playing a warlock doesn't. Only place where you need to open you're eyes atm as a warlok is LE raid.