Update 22 - Swashbuckler Tree Preview Discussion

[Mryal]

Quickened hypno then ranged Coup de Grace.

Round em up in a disco ball and IPS a Coup de Grace.

that's just off the top of my head.

Two saves for all.On a bard.All spells mentioned need to bypass SR.All spells mentioned need enchantment DC, wich youre losing 3 from not taking SS tier 5's.Youre also losing 3 spell pen wich is needed to hit all of those.Youre also losing enchant DC from feats needed to hit those because you took IPS and other range feats instead.The fact that you took IPS means you likely didnt start with max CHA, so you have lower DC.

If you multiclassed to take IPS for free, that means you lost caster lv, wich means you lost spell pen to land em.

Youre also missing spell pen feats to land em.Youre also missing bard/wizard past life feats to land em.You're also missing 2-3 twists for enchant DC's to make those spells work.
You're also missing that even if you had all of that (wich is impossible), a majority of mobs have will too high for you to even hit em with a CC spell on a bard on EE.
Clearly people complaining never played a bard

[thegreatneil]

Two saves for all.On a bard.All spells mentioned need to bypass SR.All spells mentioned need enchantment DC, wich youre losing 3 from not taking SS tier 5's.Youre also losing 3 spell pen wich is needed to hit all of those.Youre also losing enchant DC from feats needed to hit those because you took IPS and other range feats instead.The fact that you took IPS means you likely didnt start with max CHA, so you have lower DC.

If you multiclassed to take IPS for free, that means you lost caster lv, wich means you lost spell pen to land em.

Youre also missing spell pen feats to land em.Youre also missing bard/wizard past life feats to land em.You're also missing 2-3 twists for enchant DC's to make those spells work.
You're also missing that even if you had all of that (wich is impossible), a majority of mobs have will too high for you to even hit em with a CC spell on a bard on EE.
Clearly people complaining never played a bard

I have a bard ( with 2 bard past lives, currently a sorc for more evo) that has done CC for EE WGU. I am very aware of how high you can get enchant on a CHA based bard.

Hypno isn't on the list, Sleep is though...

IPS/CdG will only Instakill mobs in a straight line, a group dance party would have some to several survivors pending the size & shape of the group.

And it's a T5 with zero effect vs bosses...

Not OP, just frickin' sweet ^^

Funny, hypno is a fascinate and fascinate is a fascinate and also a mesmerize.

I like the ability, I just think ranged is a bit much.
Ask any assassin if they would like assassinate ranged.

[Zerkul]

You guys don't get the picture... Bards already come with toons of versatility, now they become DPS and instantkillers.

My 2 cent you'll be screaming loud for nerf in the next months after this goes out.

[Grailhawk]

You guys don't get the picture... Bards already come with toons of versatility, now they become DPS and instantkillers.

My 2 cent you'll be screaming loud for nerf in the next months after this goes out.

I agree with this but IMO the biggest issue is 2x str mod from gswf the rest really isn't going to do to much damage to the game current balance.

[Postumus]

that video made me laugh -

now compare it to this one:

I am such a wood-chopping noob. I never once thought to use an old tire.

That's great.

[Postumus]

You guys don't get the picture... Bards already come with toons of versatility, now they become DPS and instantkillers.

My 2 cent you'll be screaming loud for nerf in the next months after this goes out.

I'm OK with it. The cool down is quite long and doesn't work against bosses so who cares how much faster a SWASHBUCKLERRRR can kill trash? Adding one extra kill every 13-15 seconds (12 for cooldown + spell/song cast time) hardly seems to make Bards top tier DPS.

[Delacroix21]

I agree with this but IMO the biggest issue is 2x str mod from gswf the rest really isn't going to do to much damage to the game current balance.

Math allready shows SWF behind TWF even with the 200% str mod so do tell what the big issue is?


As for some whiners about the coup de grace man, can't please everybody. Personally I don't care about any insta kills. If people need help killing trash mobs in EE then that's sad. If you can't mow through trash in EE without instant kills, then you will never get past your first EE red named.


As for fascinating a whole room and then 1 by 1 killing a mob every 12 seconds? (Gimme a break!). If you think that's OP then I'd hate to show you a pale master who could kill the whole room in seconds. . My caster though is shiradi, as I could care less about insta killing trash and then having lame dps on the red/purple names.




To the Devs:

Kudos on the tree. Not quite sure if its enough for me to TR to bard though but the non-lawful splashing is a huge hurdle and you guys have done a preety darn good job considering.
Some thoughts=
1. the knockdown (like fate singer) almost NEVER seems to go off, and the 12second cooldown is terribly limiting
2. Why all the multi-selector ranger OR meele abilities? Can't we just make them work with both?
3. Insta kill is a nice addition (people were asking for it, just not me) but I was really hoping for some fort bypass thrown in somewhere, considering the crit-tactic tier 5 and tier 3 core.
4. Could we preety please consider adding the SWF feats to the core of the PrE? Bard has so few feats to spare if he is to have any meele and spell casting ability at the same time. A buckler bard needs 7 feats base (SWFx3, shield masteryx2, shield bash, improved crit) alone. The feat issue has been a complaint for bards for years, it really. Seems like a SWF focused tree and pre should provide SWF feats.

[Lauf]

the 2nd core explicitly states which weapons receive bonuses, and the bonuses given.

noticeably absent from the list is the scimitar, which can be a finessable weapon assuming a ranger splash.

IMO it should enjoy at least the same bonuses as the rapier

[IronClan]

Most of this is correct but bolded is false.

Also: I ve noticed people continue to believe in the myth that less blade weight = less force applied, which is false. With proper technique you strike as hard with a dagger as you do with a two handed sword. The force is applied by the body momentum generated by proper technique, not by the blade. The reason larger blades were used in open field combat is for reach and momentum.

Bolded: In order to strike with equal amounts of lethal force, the second weapon needs to move backward as the first moves forward, balancing the body around the rotating core to deliver said force. The physics involved doesnt allow for faster striking more often with twf than with swf IRL. This is another myth, that more weapons means more strikes per time unit. This would be the case if it was a game of touch tag, but not when delivering lethal force by rotating the core of the human body, where one arm moves back while the other forward. TWF IRL is more for having a parrying weapon and a striking weapon, and two equal length blades = not letting the opponent know which is going to be which at any given moment.

Hey Chai I don't know about your browser but all quoted ddo forum text in firefox shows up as bold, so bolding it does nothing.

I'll um... I'll leave the rest of it alone.

I will say that my TWF comments are based on how the GAME addresses TWF (1.8 attacks), and have less than nothing to do with actual physics, not unlike your physics comments

[IronClan]

You guys don't get the picture... Bards already come with toons of versatility, now they become DPS and instantkillers.

My 2 cent you'll be screaming loud for nerf in the next months after this goes out.

Have you really never set foot into a quest with a PM wailing, or Divine with a good implosion and Slay living DC?

I can't help but come off as snarky but comments like this baffle me.

[PermaBanned]

Funny, hypno is a fascinate and fascinate is a fascinate and also a mesmerize.

Doh! /facepalm

I like the ability, I just think ranged is a bit much.
Ask any assassin if they would like assassinate ranged.

Lol I'm sure they would! But perhaps not if it meant that gaining ranged assassinate meant giving up melee assassinate, and only being able to use it on CC'd mobs rather than any ol' sneak attack...

[Grailhawk]

Math allready shows SWF behind TWF even with the 200% str mod so do tell what the big issue is?

TWF is only ahead with TF weapons SWF with Balizard is better then TWF with x2 Balizarde

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...=1#post5329678

A soon as they change the game back to less procs more base/crit damage SWF will be better then both TWF and THF. Finally an argument can be made that since its going to be much better at cleaving then TWF that it is a better style all round.

[Teh_Troll]

You know what . . . bards could go an update or two with a ridiculously OP abilty like this. Leave it in.

[Gratch]

Just copied, and ETR'ed an L28 (L20 Bard) that I rarely play anymore.

During the reincarnation character creation as a Bard 1, it let me take 4 ranks of Balance and Single Weapon Fighting feat... but then once I got to the create screen I got an error "Cannot Create Character" followed by a graying out of the button. I went back a screen and then forward and now I could for some reason select alignment.... not that I wanted to. Also there was a PURCHASE button. I clicked it but it went to options from the store that didn't seem to apply (Drow, Character Slots, Bank additions) though I already have 3/15 character slots on Lama and have the Halforc pack for this Halforc. Still no create.

So then I went back to feat selection and swapped Single Weapon Fighting with Maximize spell. Then character creation worked. Weird.

Web Bug Filed.

[Cetus]

Have you really never set foot into a quest with a PM wailing, or Divine with a good implosion and Slay living DC?

I can't help but come off as snarky but comments like this baffle me.

The only problem I have with this is that the DC is easily no-fail. You can get perform in like the 90's for crying out loud.

[FlaviusMaximus]

I think Coup De Grace could use a higher cooldown, like say 20 seconds or even 30. Being able to use it once per encounter seems fair to me.

Would also like to see Second Skin reduced to 1 AP per tier. It's a great tree, but man can it gobble up enhancement points.

[maddmatt70]

You guys don't get the picture... Bards already come with toons of versatility, now they become DPS and instantkillers.

My 2 cent you'll be screaming loud for nerf in the next months after this goes out.

We do get the picture and you obviously do not. All characters can have a crazy amount of versatility right now. I have healed characters with cocoon and ameliorating strike, cced with knockdown or ear smash or etc. Bards are not much more versatile then a monkcher for godsake. There are zero bards in game. Thankfully the devs are throwing bards a bone.

[Mryal]

We do get the picture and you obviously do not. All characters can have a crazy amount of versatility right now. I have healed characters with cocoon and ameliorating strike, cced with knockdown or ear smash or etc. Bards are not much more versatile then a monkcher for godsake. There are zero bards in game. Thankfully the devs are throwing bards a bone.

And now people wanna take it away The save is no fail? We all know thats not true..its close thought.But it has drawbacks, etc that was alredy discussed.The absurb amount of damage many other builds do and bards dont is no save too...

[Rakuda13]

Bards should not get a rune arm in any form.

[HastyPudding]

Bards should not get a rune arm in any form.

You still can't use a rune arm unless you have at least 2 levels in artificer. Swashbuckler just makes it so you have another multiclass option (like fighter's kensei not having ki unless you splash monk).