Update 22 - Swashbuckler Tree Preview Discussion

[Scrabbler]

It seems a bit odd to have abilities in a tree specifically for multiclass.

If you look at the Warchanter and Kensei trees you can also see abilities that apply to Barbarian and Monk characters. There is a strong chance that when the Artificer Epic Destiny comes in, anyone will be able to use it for Runearm proficiency with zero Arty levels.

[Dilbon]

Does swashbuckling work with kamas? Some weirdo might take exotic weapon proficiency and wield Forester's Brush Hook.

[kmoustakas]

(Bards can get orbs without multiclassing via tier 1 spellsinger enhancement)

[Nascoe]

(Bards can get orbs without multiclassing via tier 1 spellsinger enhancement)

That will certainly be a way to go at making your spellsinger a pack a bit more punch as well yeah. Although Swashbuckler might still be better for the EK builds and arties etc.

[Scrabbler]

Does swashbuckling work with kamas? Some weirdo might take exotic weapon proficiency and wield Forester's Brush Hook.

Kama doesn't quite work. It's a finesse weapon so it will work with most Swashbuckler requirements, BUT only weapons that are simple/martial and finesse/thrown will get the bonus crit profile. That crit bonus is one of the strongest parts about Swashbuckling.

If it did work with Kama, then the bonus would probably be the same as for Sickle, and Forester Brush Hook would reach an extremely-powerful 13-20/x4.

[MangLord]

I have a level 26 pure Arty with maxed INT (I don't remember the exact number), and my rune arm is evaded 95% of the time or more at max charge. Once I hit epic levels, my rune-arm became pretty useless, almost never hitting full damage. Effortless saves even by epic zombies and oozes, which I would assume would have the poorest saves. In Thunderholme, I'd say it's probably 99.9%. They don't even have a problem in EN Haunted Halls, where I'd expect saves to be lowest. Skeletal archers and spiders just outright evade rune arm damage without even trying. I can't imagine how useless a rune arm will be on a non artificer. I can't see this as a viable option for swashbucklers whatsoever. I'd rather just get a little extra doublestrike or parrying from a nice buckler.

I'd easily have my pure arty to cap if he was any good at anything besides trapping at epic levels. I just gave up on him, more or less. I can't see how a rune arm swashbuckler would be any different.

[KyrzaBladedancer]

Kama doesn't quite work. It's a finesse weapon so it will work with most Swashbuckler requirements, BUT only weapons that are simple/martial and finesse/thrown will get the bonus crit profile. That crit bonus is one of the strongest parts about Swashbuckling.

If it did work with Kama, then the bonus would probably be the same as for Sickle, and Forester Brush Hook would reach an extremely-powerful 13-20/x4.

Hmm guess I shouldn't say anything about my 11-20x4 Balizarde then huh? OOPS!

[Scrabbler]

Hmm guess I shouldn't say anything about my 11-20x4 Balizarde then huh? OOPS!

Oh does Barb5/Bard3 work? Or do you mean Swashbuckler + Kensei + Celestial?

Either way it's funny that the Swashbuckler tree intentionally avoided encouraging Rapier use, but then mixing in another class brings it back strong (even when using ones that aren't as inherently great as Balizarde). Meanwhile a Kensei/Swashbuckler multiclass is much less likely to use a Handaxe / Light Pick than either a pure Kensei or pure Swashbuckler would be...

[Zerkul]

Feats

• A new line of Single Weapon Fighting feats are now available!
  
  • Single Weapon Fighting: While Single-Weapon Fighting, you gain +10% Combat Style bonus to attack speed. Requires fighting with a single one-handed weapon, and wielding only an orb, runearm, or nothing in your offhand.
    Feat Requirement: 2 ranks of Balance
  • Improved Single Weapon Fighting: Your Single-Weapon Fighting bonus is increased to a +20% Combat Style bonus to attack speed. You now apply 50% more of your appropriate ability score to your damage instead of just your ability score (for instance, you add 1.5 times your Strength as damage, similar to Two-Handed Fighting.)
    Feat Requirement: 4 ranks of Balance, Base Attack Bonus +6
  • Greater Single Weapon Fighting: Your Single-Weapon Fighting bonus is increased to a +30% Combat Style bonus to attack speed and 100% more of your appropriate ability score to your damage .
    Feat Requirement: 7 ranks of Balance, Base Attack Bonus +11

I'm going to make a Barbarian with a single weapon so he benefits more from strength than using his twohanded weapon. He will even attack faster, all benefit. Will be extra cool because he can drink beer with offhand while fighting.

I'm sorry but i give my Thumb down for this.

[KyrzaBladedancer]

Oh does Barb5/Bard3 work? Or do you mean Swashbuckler + Kensei + Celestial?

Either way it's funny that the Swashbuckler tree intentionally avoided encouraging Rapier use, but then mixing in another class brings it back strong (even when using ones that aren't as inherently great as Balizarde). Meanwhile a Kensei/Swashbuckler multiclass is much less likely to use a Handaxe / Light Pick than either a pure Kensei or pure Swashbuckler would be...

Yeah they both work, and give the same crit range. 13-20 normal and 11-20 in DC which is actually sure nice for SWF cause when you pop the last core naked I'm sitting at 93% DS. not to mention super attack speed with Haste Boost

[J1NG]

The Deflect Arrows ability granted from the enhancements correctly adds the Feat into your Feat list, but does not appear to be working on Lamannia. Closest equivalent on live shows Deflect Arrows working. Unsure on what is causing this issue on Lamannia.

J1NG

[Tesrali]

Thanks Jing, good observation

[SteeleTrueheart]

(I saw you Steel!).

There seems to be a new Steele/Steel on this forum each day? To whom do you refer?

And I vigorously deny any knowledge of stacking doublestrike/speed increases. I don't build for that at all... no. not. at. all!

On the side: I hate you devs! (not really) but seriously! ANOTHER fighting style. My S&B is neglected, my THF is... dusty, my TWF is still slowly climbing his TR2 way back up and my Unarmed has finally hit his TR2 self back to 20. Now I am going to have to build a SWF! You're killing me!

[Steelstar]

Like I figured, SWF is not as far behind against TWF or THF in terms of damage output as you level. I am sure it will be very strong and viable as is, when people start working class mixes into it to take advantage of doublestrike and stacked attack speed (I saw you Steel!).

The build I was running around with last night was a legitimate pure Bard! I had all three Single Weapon Fighting feats, stacking with Haste and Action Boost: Haste Boost.

[mezzorco]

I'm going to make a Barbarian with a single weapon so he benefits more from strength than using his twohanded weapon. He will even attack faster, all benefit. Will be extra cool because he can drink beer with offhand while fighting.

I'm sorry but i give my Thumb down for this.

I agree. 200% ability to damage is too much.

According to me, ability to damage shouldn't even be part of SWF line. In PnP, if you wield a one-handed weapon with two hands, you multiply STR bonus by 1.5x.
Simply grant this for free without feats (with whatever ability to damage you use), and let SWF feats grant some other benefit instead.

[Khatzhas]

I'm going to make a Barbarian with a single weapon so he benefits more from strength than using his twohanded weapon. He will even attack faster, all benefit. Will be extra cool because he can drink beer with offhand while fighting.

Could be interesting, and he'll likely pull ahead during boss fights. You'll lose out on all the glancing damage provided by the THF line unless you use a weapon that can apply both and you take all the feats of course. How important is AoE damage compared to single-target currently though?

As a guess, per swing damage will be better for a SWFer (with all the feats) on a single target compared to a two-handed weapon once you hit a strength of around 45.

[Khatzhas]

I have a level 26 pure Arty with maxed INT (I don't remember the exact number), and my rune arm is evaded 95% of the time or more at max charge. Once I hit epic levels, my rune-arm became pretty useless, almost never hitting full damage. Effortless saves even by epic zombies and oozes, which I would assume would have the poorest saves. In Thunderholme, I'd say it's probably 99.9%. They don't even have a problem in EN Haunted Halls, where I'd expect saves to be lowest. Skeletal archers and spiders just outright evade rune arm damage without even trying. I can't imagine how useless a rune arm will be on a non artificer. I can't see this as a viable option for swashbucklers whatsoever. I'd rather just get a little extra doublestrike or parrying from a nice buckler.

I'd easily have my pure arty to cap if he was any good at anything besides trapping at epic levels. I just gave up on him, more or less. I can't see how a rune arm swashbuckler would be any different.

Rune-arm swashbucklers are probably not going to be full artis, and so the Rune arm will be for the stats and the imbue. Glass cannon for example will average out at 20pts of extra damage per hit.

Which rune arm were you trying to use on your Arti? Sounds like arcing Sky.

[Systern]

Found a few bugs while exploring the tree:

1) The L3 Core "Swashbuckling" doesn't apply the L1 core passive abilities (at the very least, not the dodge)
2) All the +MDB bonuses for core and the T5 abilities didn't work on the MDB 9 Starter Armor that the test character had. (perhaps all?)


I'll check more later, but the TR group wants to go kill stoof now!
I got up to level 13 before being called away...

[Cetus]

200% Ability for a single weapon? This is asinine.

You're telling me that wielding a two hander benefits less from strength than a single weapon? I get the attack speed...I guess, but 200% ability score benefit?

Lets see....maul or dagger - which one do you think would sensibly emphasize strength more?

Melee'ing in this game is slowly turning into a comedy bit.

THF should be the hardest hitting combat style in the game, with mass mob damage.

TWF should be the faster hitting weapon style, which excels at single mob damage

SWF should be thrown in the toilet - but it won't, so this needs to be somewhere in between - faster than THF, but slower than TWF, hits a bit harder than TWF, but not as hard as THF. Glancing blow opportunity. Its a in-between style. It CERTAINLY should not benefit more from strength than a two handed wielding fighter or barb.

[Blackheartox]

200% Ability for a single weapon? This is asinine.

You're telling me that wielding a two hander benefits less from strength than a single weapon? I get the attack speed...I guess, but 200% ability score benefit?

Lets see....maul or dagger - which one do you think would sensibly emphasize strength more?

Melee'ing in this game is slowly turning into a comedy bit.

THF should be the hardest hitting combat style in the game, with mass mob damage.

TWF should be the faster hitting weapon style, which excels at single mob damage

SWF should be thrown in the toilet - but it won't, so this needs to be somewhere in between - faster than THF, but slower than TWF, hits a bit harder than TWF, but not as hard as THF. Glancing blow opportunity. Its a in-between style. It CERTAINLY should not benefit more from strength than a two handed wielding fighter or barb.

This, devs please reconsider the plans for swf