New Harder Un-Disableable Traps

[PhoenixRajoNight]

Watched video, yeah thats kewl, atleast I got something from being on the forums all day, all tho I havent really built a caster yet, but now I know I could do it solo on a caster.

[DemonMage]

House P jump buff provides +30, and you can get resists, though you may have trouble doing it in the span of 30 minutes, you could take the recall penalty to get House P rebuffs. Or get the 20 resist potions from The Twelve. Obviously easier if you can self cast resists and jump, but certainly doable without being a caster.

[PhoenixRajoNight]

House P jump buff provides +30, and you can get resists, though you may have trouble doing it in the span of 30 minutes, you could take the recall penalty to get House P rebuffs. Or get the 20 resist potions from The Twelve. Obviously easier if you can self cast resists and jump, but certainly doable without being a caster.

I can buy resist 20 pots now? thats fricken awesome, wow 2 good tidbits withing 10 mins, thats fricken awesome, or as we say in boston WICKED ****A. Anything else? C'mon you know you got more.

[Cedrica-the-Bard]

(Also posted in Rogue forum)
My rogue is Human 12 Rogue/3 Pally

Stats:

Str 16
Dex 28
Con 20
Int 22
Wis 10
Cha 22

I took all 4 trap save AP and the Way of the Acrobat enhancement. I also have the Human Versatility IV (includes Saves boost AND skills boost for +5 each. cheaper for me).

I have a Resistance 4 cloak and the GH belt.

Went into HIPS elite and stood in that trap to test. My first test was with ONLY Greater Heroism as a buff. I saved on a 3 and failed on a 2 and the number in brackets was +43. I took 84 points of damage. Is that a DC of 45 for that trap?

Then I clicked the 3 boost buffs (and thank GOD the three aren't on the same timer!): Improved Uncanny Dodge, Human Saves Boost and Acrobat Boost. This time when I stood in the traps it had +56 in brackets, so I gained 13 to my Reflex save for 20 seconds with those boosts.

I only failed on a 1.

But for those builds with just Evasion (Rangers and 2 Rogue splashes), the damage would have been double what I took because I have Improved Evasion. That's 168 points of damage!!! NASTY!!! I thought the 84 hurt and was thanking my lucky stars I have 251 HP and 2 LOH available to me.

The only thing that confused me was that with GH, on my Stats screen it said my Reflex save was 35. So I thought it would be 39 in a trap due to those trap AP's, but it said 43 in the combat log. Where did that extra 4 come from???

Hope this is helpful.

[DemonMage]

I can buy resist 20 pots now? thats fricken awesome, wow 2 good tidbits withing 10 mins, thats fricken awesome, or as we say in boston WICKED ****A. Anything else? C'mon you know you got more.

Stoneskin and Repair Critical wands on the same vendor as the 20 resist potions =-p May not help you, depending on your UMD (or race for the latter), but handy to know!

[KoboldKiller]

Personally, I don't think any trap should be set without you being able to disable it. I know it's not PnP but I don't recall ever running a quest that had traps you couldn't disable, of course I could be wrong. But the point being, if you create a trap that cannot be disabled and you must pass through it to continue the quest it should not be impossible to go through. Take you to the brink maybe kill you every time no. And no elite is not optional as Favor plays a major component in this game for rewards.

[Impaqt]

(Also posted in Rogue forum)
My rogue is Human 12 Rogue/3 Pally


Went into HIPS elite and stood in that trap to test. My first test was with ONLY Greater Heroism as a buff. I saved on a 3 and failed on a 2 and the number in brackets was +43. I took 84 points of damage. Is that a DC of 45 for that trap?
.

46 ACtually, But we get the idea... ANd this was today?

That would seem to indicate to me that the low level elite quests are scaling WAY too high if L1 is a 30 dave and L10 is a 46 save....

[PhoenixRajoNight]

46 ACtually, But we get the idea... ANd this was today?

That would seem to indicate to me that the low level elite quests are scaling WAY too high if L1 is a 30 dave and L10 is a 46 save....

Well that would mean if we take variables that hips is 12 on elite so 46/12 = about 4 so a lvl 16 dung on elite at 18 would be dc 66-70

[Ron]

Watched video, yeah thats kewl, atleast I got something from being on the forums all day, all tho I havent really built a caster yet, but now I know I could do it solo on a caster.

You don't need to be a caster to solo the pit. All you need are featherfall boots (or the equivelent), which should be no problem by the time you are able to survive in there alone No need for high jump skill either. JJ has a video of it on u-tube somewhere, and I've done it myself as well (following what he did).

[ViVid7th]

Well that would mean if we take variables that hips is 12 on elite so 46/12 = about 4 so a lvl 16 dung on elite at 18 would be dc 66-70

You're failing at a few points here. DC checks are scaled at (Average Bonus Required +11), this means that they are scaled so that a character of the intended build with the proper saves for the trap will have a 50% chance of success or failure. High save characters will have a higher chance at success, lower save characters have a lower chance at success.

(Note: Greater Dispell magic is the prefect example of this. The DC for it is the caster level of the opposing caster +11. You get your caster level upto 20+1d20 to meet that number)

This means that a level 1 quest, turned elite (level 3) has a scaling per level of 6.333~ (30-11, then divide by 3). HiPS on elite has a per level scaling of 2.91666~, or 3 (46-11, divide by 12). So we can't go by level here.

Assuming that an elite quest is designed to be easily doable for characters equal to the modified level times 2, a level 6 pure class rogue will require a base save of 19-20 before rolls for the level 1 elite quest. Assuming a base dex 20, +2 from class enhancements, +1 from racial enhancements, +1 from levels, +1 tome, +2 item, +4 from a spell, we sit on a 31, or a +10 dex mod. Add in a +2 from trap sense, +2 from enhancements, +2 from resist item, and +4 from uncanny Dodge with a +5 ref save, total mod of 25. If the rogue sees it coming and preps for it, with max items at level 6 they will still have a 20% chance at failure. Without Uncanny Dodge running, they have a 40% chance of failure, requiring a roll of 9. This is a HIGH SAVE character, not average at twice the modified loot level.

Scaling for this quest to elite is way too high.

[PhoenixRajoNight]

You're failing at a few points here. DC checks are scaled at (Average Bonus Required +11), this means that they are scaled so that a character of the intended build with the proper saves for the trap will have a 50% chance of success or failure. High save characters will have a higher chance at success, lower save characters have a lower chance at success.

(Note: Greater Dispell magic is the prefect example of this. The DC for it is the caster level of the opposing caster +11. You get your caster level upto 20+1d20 to meet that number)

This means that a level 1 quest, turned elite (level 3) has a scaling per level of 6.333~ (30-11, then divide by 3). HiPS on elite has a per level scaling of 2.91666~, or 3 (46-11, divide by 12). So we can't go by level here.

Assuming that an elite quest is designed to be easily doable for characters equal to the modified level times 2, a level 6 pure class rogue will require a base save of 19-20 before rolls for the level 1 elite quest. Assuming a base dex 20, +2 from class enhancements, +1 from racial enhancements, +1 from levels, +1 tome, +2 item, +4 from a spell, we sit on a 31, or a +10 dex mod. Add in a +2 from trap sense, +2 from enhancements, +2 from resist item, and +4 from uncanny Dodge with a +5 ref save, total mod of 25. If the rogue sees it coming and preps for it, with max items at level 6 they will still have a 20% chance at failure. Without Uncanny Dodge running, they have a 40% chance of failure, requiring a roll of 9. This is a HIGH SAVE character, not average at twice the modified loot level.

Scaling for this quest to elite is way too high.

Honestly made the post without really knowing what I was talking about, lol. I only have one rogue, well srry tech hes a batman build, and hes sitting on a burner, because I didnt take con on him and am sufferign for doing so, and will have to rm him.

[ViVid7th]

Heh, no worries. No matter the character, con needs to be up though. Goodluck with him the second time around.

[MrWizard]

i was doing some stuff on elit eiwht my 11 level rogue today.

hips, cult, etc.

traps i tested (meaning i ran into them to see)...

well... the times I did not save and took half damage.. those were in the 75 to 85 damage range. Means a person who gets hit with no damage reduction will get 150 to 170 damage.

dart trap in HIPS was 24 points a tick.

party members defintely hurt.

traps that cannot be disabled will be a party wipe or mostly wipe if they have to run through them. The damage I took was only from one hit of a spike..just one.


if you got hit twice running through, probably 300 points damage. dead.

[Hakushi]

Some people seems to not entirely understand what elite mode is. Elite mode and elite players are two different things, elite mode is not supposed to be a stupidly hard almost impossible mode, it's 2 lvl higher than the normal quest. Does 2 lvls make a quest near-impossible?

[Lorien_the_First_One]

Some people seems to not entirely understand what elite mode is. Elite mode and elite players are two different things, elite mode is not supposed to be a stupidly hard almost impossible mode, it's 2 lvl higher than the normal quest. Does 2 lvls make a quest near-impossible?

Actually the GMs of this game do not seem to understand that rule they themselves set. There is no way that Elite quests are 2 levels higher, they are MUCH higher than that. A L3 quest on elite is generally far far harder than a L5 a norm.

[Vormaerin]

The problem....even with the unavoidable traps.... is not the increased damage. It is the increased save DC. That needs to be fixed. A character with a good reflex save for their level should be able to do these traps with proper preparation. Force traps the entire party has to pass through are moronic in general, since there is nothing you can do but take it, really. But the pit and scoundrel's run are fine... as long as the DC is at a rational level.

[Shade]

Scoundrels run I did years back on elite without fire protect, without any rare equipment, and just the standard 20 point fire resist, was right at the level of the quest and found the fire traps to be a joke for elite. They do some damage sure, but there are plenty of safe area to stop in and drink some potions to heal up, and I could run thru them and get the piece in about 7 seconds anyways.
If they do some real damage now, thats great. Elite is meant for elite players, and elite players thought it was too easy before.

Same for the pit, like Mrcow mentioned you can do the quest 100% and get hit by zero traps. You can even naviate the force traps with careful timing and jumps and never get hit.

I can't think of any traps that you absolutely must stand in to complete an objective. Sure some you need to run thru, but thats never a problem when your a well prepared elite player..

For normal nothing has changed, so if you having trouble.. Do normal.

[PhoenixRajoNight]

Scoundrels run I did years back on elite without fire protect, without any rare equipment, and just the standard 20 point fire resist, was right at the level of the quest and found the fire traps to be a joke for elite. They do some damage sure, but there are plenty of safe area to stop in and drink some potions to heal up, and I could run thru them and get the piece in about 7 seconds anyways.
If they do some real damage now, thats great. Elite is meant for elite players, and elite players thought it was too easy before.

Same for the pit, like Mrcow mentioned you can do the quest 100% and get hit by zero traps. You can even naviate the force traps with careful timing and jumps and never get hit.

I can't think of any traps that you absolutely must stand in to complete an objective. Sure some you need to run thru, but thats never a problem when your a well prepared elite player..

For normal nothing has changed, so if you having trouble.. Do normal.

Ugh.... whole elitist group thing....nvm its just not worth it, you think 20 fire resist is nothing? before the new mod I remember running scoundrels run just last week on hard with 20 fire resist, and getting hit for 20+ fire damage each hit, and theres no safe spots on the run down, because between each flame jet are bursting furnaces, I think your memory of the run is very much broken or it has alrdy changed before. I dont even wanna know the damage its gonna do now on hard or even elite.

[GlassCannon]

Soloable, How you do the 3rd furnace solo?

Creatively. Want me to show you sometime?

[GlassCannon]

Scoundrels run I did years back on elite without fire protect, without any rare equipment, and just the standard 20 point fire resist, was right at the level of the quest and found the fire traps to be a joke for elite. They do some damage sure, but there are plenty of safe area to stop in and drink some potions to heal up, and I could run thru them and get the piece in about 7 seconds anyways.
If they do some real damage now, thats great. Elite is meant for elite players, and elite players thought it was too easy before.

Same for the pit, like Mrcow mentioned you can do the quest 100% and get hit by zero traps. You can even naviate the force traps with careful timing and jumps and never get hit.

I can't think of any traps that you absolutely must stand in to complete an objective. Sure some you need to run thru, but thats never a problem when your a well prepared elite player..

For normal nothing has changed, so if you having trouble.. Do normal.

You, like many others, MISSED THE POINT and are simply flinging opinion. Stop and read.