U45 Preview 1: Balance: Ranged Combat Changes

[kelavas]

I don't suppose having all of the past lives and 115 Reaper points has anything to do with how easy your Inquisitive had it?

Devs, I suggest taking a look at the OPness of past lives and Reaper points before you start to balance the rest of the game around exceptional toons like the poster's.

Don't nerf the classes and such as a reflex action. I guarantee that the VAST majority of players aren't getting zappy's results.

I back this claim up. I only have all past lives and 86RP (on an alt account) and doing 80 on R10 with 130 sneak and 40 law. I'm not doing zappys results and the fact that someone can hit 450 rangedpower is pretty insane. Without Blitz, only getting 233, with blitz and Throuth the Mists that's still only 353. That's about 140 + 170 + 40 that's around 350, which is good but you cant use Nerve Venom which is half the reason of soloing.

My other character only has a few past lives and 12 reaper points doing 60-70 on R10 with 90 sneak and 40 law. Theres a variance in rp and pl's

Keep in mind, none have raid loot. I never run PN or THTH.

[0ldschool]

2. IPS is a feat with steep requirements. IMO it's fair for a player to expect a feat that you acquire in a series and with increasing requirements (Precise Shot, then Improved Precise Shot) doesn't actually penalize you for using it versus the earlier feat in the series. You can adhere to that sort of rule if you apply the 20% penalty only to the 2nd..nth mobs that are hit. First mob still takes full damage. For players who aren't as adept with swapping stances fast and so on, this would hit them less harshly. They could leave IPS on and not be penalized when they're attacking one target. I think that's a better design than having the latter feat/stance end up being frequently worse than the earlier feat/stance.

+1. As a ranged players with zero past lives, 4 reaper points, who is not Inquis, not particularly good yet, and completely inept at swapping stances fast, thank you for illustrating this point so well.

I don't see that many ranged toons (non-inquis) out there really. I rarely see other Mechanics at all, playing at cap on Cannith. I honestly can't remember the last time I saw one. So the whole 'IPS is OP' thing is really coming out of left field for me. When I pug (which is many times Reaper, not by my choice), it's me plinking away while the melees and caster do the vast majority of the damage. I'm not saying that my experience is typical, but it's my only frame of reference, and in this world, a 20% drop in damage output just makes me that much less useful to anyone. It also reduces my ability to solo LE, perhaps pushing me right out of it entirely for any high mob count quests which have become so common.

I'm trying to speak for the little guy, the new player without a zillion reaper points and past lives and hyper-optimized builds who's just trying to enjoy the game and contribute something to parties when they'll have me.

[barecm]

Wow, ok. A lot of misinformation to clear up here.

1. Yes, there's still a Player's Council. The roster is public (found here on the forums), and members are rotated in/out on an occasional basis.
2. I don't have any secret Discord channel of any sort. I participate in the public player-run Discord channels (open to anybody) and a Player's Council channel (open to Player's Council members, and used for smaller feedback that doesn't warrant an entire thread, but essentially the same purpose as the Player's Council Forum threads - Gathering early feedback from a smaller group under NDA).
3. Not every change gets run by the PC ahead of time. Sometimes it's things that don't need the early feedback, sometimes it's changes that came in too late to get meaningful feedback from the PC before they went to Lamannia. There are a lot of reasons things might not go there first.
4. We don't make balance decisions based on "forum whining". If there's chatter that something is out of balance, we do internal work to see if those claims have any merit in fact. If they don't, we ignore it. If they do, we analyze what is happening, why it's happening, if a change needs to be made, and if so, what change needs to be made. Nothing here was done without weeks of careful consideration first, and nothing here is without specific reason. If you don't see the reason, it isn't because there isn't one. Ask, and listen when we explain things. There are a lot of questions still being asked that we've already answered in detail in these threads.
5. Barecm, your interpretation is wrong. Flat out. It's a hyperbolic interpretation, and is actively harmful to what you seem to be trying to accomplish.

I will help clear things up as well... Some discord highlights (not my words in quotes, they are yours)

"bow are... bows. there aren't good dps options for longbows and shortbows" Hmm... no good dps options, LETS NERF THEM!!!!!


"IPS is part of the overall ranged meta issues" - took care of that issue.

"when ranged damage is correctly balanced, it should be doing significantly less damage than melee. Like significantly less damage. Casters are a bit of a fuzzier story, because their costs are higher, cooldowns are longer, distribution is weirder, and resources more finite."

-Longbows and short bow ALREADY do significantly less damage than melee.
-Cooldowns are longer - Longer than Manyshot?
-Distribution weirder - no idea what that means.
-Casters have thousands of spell points - The days of running out of sp are long gone. Don't most of the AA boosts cost sp as well and bow users typically have 1/10th the sp of casters?

"Ranged's defense is inherent in the fact that they stand at a distance. Their defensive stats should be garbage compared to melee."
-What about Casters? How do they get a pass on this logic?

Then you go and group all ranged including casters to make a point, despite separating them out 1 minute later. It is too long a quote and is just a picture so I will not cut and paste, but I think we get the point about when ranged is balanced, it seems over powered so on, so forth.

How many folks actually know about these additional discord channels? Do you promote them on the website? Do you have a link in the PC board for them? Any mention of them at all actually? So, technically not a secret, but you are not exactly advertising for people to get involved either.

Yes, I am the problem. I am the one spreading misinformation. I write about what I see with my own eyes. I write about my experiences. I do not make it up. I've said my peace. I don't think much will change. Nerfing OP classes people eventually get over as folks have in the past. Nerfing already suffering combat style just causes people to find something else to do.

My last appearance, depending on how these nerfs go live, will be tonight in Lamannia. I read for myself how they are spinning these nerfs. Knowing SSG, they will respond to 1 or 2 ranged nerf comments and then only comment on the new class...

[dunklezhan]

I don't have an inquisitive so I have nothing to compare it too there, and it doesn't seem to affect my arti really. I'll leave that feedback to others.

As for my Ranger...

Improved Precise Shot now reduces Ranged Damage by 20% while active.

Honestly what confuses me most here is that I am not just really clear why IPS is suddenly a problem now, after 14 years. I am aware that my ranger still has manyshot and lots of other things that certainly doesn't mean the class / playstyle is suddenly going to become non-viable after these changes go live. It's not a disaster, I just don't really understand the "why *now*" of it.

And even with the 20% reduction I'm still going to 'live' in IPS if I have it available, its not like there's a better option, particularly in light of other design changes over the years, e.g. reduced options for single target "investigation" pulling (i.e. you can't do the shoot the wall/barrel to attract attention of just a couple of mobs anymore) or the 'horde' approach to dungeon mob design that reached Red-DA heights of absurdity at points in quests during and after MOTU (that approach seems thankfully much reduced in recent content - thank you - but the instances in question like the Codex chain seem to still have all the legacy DA problems and I avoid them every life as a result).

So from my perspective the main impact on me from all of these changes appears to really be to just nerf my ranger's standard DPS mode 20% and make me even less likely to enjoy specifically "horde" based quests (where AOE is terribly important rather than "OP") without really adding anything. Which doesn't thrill me, I'll be honest.

The stuff around simple throwing weapons is super-welcome even if it is only happening because of Alchemist

The rest it all seems fairly neutral overall so... sure.

So... I'm kinda taking it on trust here that there is indeed a larger picture you're working on that's eventually going to make me feel better about the IPS nerf.

[Meltone_revenants]

I noticed Vile chemist gets a similar ability to Ninja Spy 2 core that works with throwing weapon expertise similar to how Ninja spy 2 works with Shuriken expertise. I was wondering if there is any way we can add something similar to Swashbuckler or Vistani Knife Fighter so they too can be awesome throwing dagger dudes too? They both have enhancements to support the throwing daggers builds but they can never compete to someone like a ninja spy monk with shurikens or a vile chemist alchemist with a dart/throwing dagger, cos they get like a chance to throw an extra projectile twice per point of dex/int. It would be swell to see some love on the Swashbuckler thrower side.

[Sealsniper]

I hope my fellow players have not missed all there is to unpack here.

1. It's an active goal of the development team to change how we build and play characters? Why? As you introduce new elements to the game (races, classes, trees, etc.) that will happen organically for those who choose to change, right? There's a gap the size of the Grand Canyon between "we want to offer more diversity in the available build options" and "our goal is to make changes that change how you build and play characters".
2. Why would this align with Hardcore League at all? Will these changes ONLY be live on the Hardcore servers? What about players who have no interest in Hardcore League? Are these changes "good" for them too? It seems (on the surface) that you're attempting to "shake things up" right before a Hardcore season to make it more interesting, which leaves those with zero interest in Hardcore baffled by many of the design decisions you've made.
3. Where did the data for the overperforming and underperforming builds come from? Again, the association with Hardcore League seems like a bad place to design from as this caters to the more skilled players. Where are the LOW-END builds on each of these? How will the new/returning player experience be affected by the changes? What about the players who aren't as good at DDO? Do you really think you'll stop Nightmare from making builds which can crit for over 50k+? (you won't)

I agree 100%, if this is designed towards hardcore league, just make these changes to hardcore only servers and leave well enough alone.

This game is designed to grind out quests/lives/destinies over and over and over again, if you have an issue that a class or build is too OP, just dont run with those builds in your party. Nerfing and making changes (draconic in this instance) to builds that folks have spent countless hours building around because it allows me to finish content 2-20 minutes faster should not be an concern for others and cause the changes, I understand Inquisitors are a bit over powered, but this has been the case since game came out, new class, new flavor - always OP (SSG /turbine) does this to make sales and get people to play/use then everyone complains and they hit with nerf hammer.

So i feel that reaper points are OP, my toon with 5 reaper points can't compete with another toon that has 75-100+ reaper points, they have more health, more DC's, more attack power, more reaper clickies, we need to nerf them, take it all away.,..

Not happy....will have to see what changes bring, maybe finally be the final straw, getting tired of spending big money, time, etc. to farm for gear, past lives, etc around a specific build only to have dev's come around and decide they want to make changes, am i going to get a refund for my stuff i put into the build? For my time? sounds only fair right?

[Rys]

...

[Xgemina]

...[*]Is Ranged Weapon Combat (as an archetype) balanced where it needs to be relative to other combat styles?
[*]?Looking in the context of ranged combat vs. melee combat, there are significant issues with Ranged's easy access to AOE on hit (something we believe should be more highly incentivized in the THF Melee style) and current lack of incentive to focus on single targets. This last one led to the changes to Archer's Focus (boosting single-target damage) and Improved Precise Shot (allowing you to continue to AOE as you did before, but at a cost), as well as the presence of a few Melee-centric changes (such as KOTC's new Lead the Charge enhancement and the updated Spring Attack) that let Melees get into attacking range faster...

emphasis mine

So this just popped out to me - easy access? [kobold ]Really? Really?[/kobold]

So 3 feats (2 pre-req feats: Point Blank Shot and Precise Shot + IPS), 11 BAB and base Dex 19 is now considered easy access? I don't think that means what you think that means.

[Grugmak]

So this obviously has been a ****show. I will agree, Inquisitor needed a nerf, but we may have gone a bit heavy handed on this. You nerfed their aoe capability (IPS), their doubleshot, their law die, their ranged power contributon, their reload speed, and their duration of NHB. All of these nerfs are at about a 20-25% decrease from their previous levels, because of the interactions between all these systems this will wind up being a MUCH larger than 20% nerf in overall output for an enhancement tree that is clearly 100% damage oriented, almost no utility and what utility you do get is based completely around not pulling aggro and getting splattered because of your damage. Like I said it did need a nerf, noone is contesting this, its the scope of the nerf that people are having a problem with.

The REAL problem here is your nerfs were not limited solely to inquisitor, you effectively nerfed pretty much all other ranged setups including a large number that were vastly underperforming. I understand there have been some problems with certain ranged setups being really powerful in the right setting, and they can be still, but I was around back in the days when noone played ranged classes and the few that did were exclusively rangers with bows and their damage was still hot garbage. I would like to not return to those days again.

Swapping ranged to a single target model isn't a bad idea if that's whats led to the IPS nerf, but it needs to hit like a truck single target and consistently to compete with all the aoe builds who should hit more targets softer. Take your precise shot stance change, part of its good in you don't need to stand still anymore, part of its bad in that you need to hit the same target to build stacks and they poof as soon as you hit a new one, you're essentially saying that you need to hit something for a full 15 seconds minimum to get the full benefit and that benefit will disappear as soon as that target dies, which in its current state is actually a nerf you're trying to use as a buff. You can fix some of this by either a) removing the 1 stack per second so your multishot can give you added stacks or b) removing the requirement of hitting the same target or c) both, which if you do b makes a kind of unnecessary.

[barecm]

So this obviously has been a ****show. I will agree, Inquisitor needed a nerf, but we may have gone a bit heavy handed on this. You nerfed their aoe capability (IPS), their doubleshot, their law die, their ranged power contributon, their reload speed, and their duration of NHB. All of these nerfs are at about a 20-25% decrease from their previous levels, because of the interactions between all these systems this will wind up being a MUCH larger than 20% nerf in overall output for an enhancement tree that is clearly 100% damage oriented, almost no utility and what utility you do get is based completely around not pulling aggro and getting splattered because of your damage. Like I said it did need a nerf, noone is contesting this, its the scope of the nerf that people are having a problem with.

The REAL problem here is your nerfs were not limited solely to inquisitor, you effectively nerfed pretty much all other ranged setups including a large number that were vastly underperforming. I understand there have been some problems with certain ranged setups being really powerful in the right setting, and they can be still, but I was around back in the days when noone played ranged classes and the few that did were exclusively rangers with bows and their damage was still hot garbage. I would like to not return to those days again.

Swapping ranged to a single target model isn't a bad idea if that's whats led to the IPS nerf, but it needs to hit like a truck single target and consistently to compete with all the aoe builds who should hit more targets softer. Take your precise shot stance change, part of its good in you don't need to stand still anymore, part of its bad in that you need to hit the same target to build stacks and they poof as soon as you hit a new one, you're essentially saying that you need to hit something for a full 15 seconds minimum to get the full benefit and that benefit will disappear as soon as that target dies, which in its current state is actually a nerf you're trying to use as a buff. You can fix some of this by either a) removing the 1 stack per second so your multishot can give you added stacks or b) removing the requirement of hitting the same target or c) both, which if you do b makes a kind of unnecessary.

They are trying to fix a mistake with another mistake. It won’t end well for anyone unless they are willing and able to accept this change is indeed a mistake and rework it before it goes live.

[Ashlayna]

So this obviously has been a ****show. I will agree, Inquisitor needed a nerf, but we may have gone a bit heavy handed on this. You nerfed their aoe capability (IPS), their doubleshot, their law die, their ranged power contributon, their reload speed, and their duration of NHB. All of these nerfs are at about a 20-25% decrease from their previous levels, because of the interactions between all these systems this will wind up being a MUCH larger than 20% nerf in overall output for an enhancement tree that is clearly 100% damage oriented, almost no utility and what utility you do get is based completely around not pulling aggro and getting splattered because of your damage. Like I said it did need a nerf, noone is contesting this, its the scope of the nerf that people are having a problem with.

The REAL problem here is your nerfs were not limited solely to inquisitor, you effectively nerfed pretty much all other ranged setups including a large number that were vastly underperforming. I understand there have been some problems with certain ranged setups being really powerful in the right setting, and they can be still, but I was around back in the days when noone played ranged classes and the few that did were exclusively rangers with bows and their damage was still hot garbage. I would like to not return to those days again.

Swapping ranged to a single target model isn't a bad idea if that's whats led to the IPS nerf, but it needs to hit like a truck single target and consistently to compete with all the aoe builds who should hit more targets softer. Take your precise shot stance change, part of its good in you don't need to stand still anymore, part of its bad in that you need to hit the same target to build stacks and they poof as soon as you hit a new one, you're essentially saying that you need to hit something for a full 15 seconds minimum to get the full benefit and that benefit will disappear as soon as that target dies, which in its current state is actually a nerf you're trying to use as a buff. You can fix some of this by either a) removing the 1 stack per second so your multishot can give you added stacks or b) removing the requirement of hitting the same target or c) both, which if you do b makes a kind of unnecessary.

The problem is, reading through the thread, that their goal is to make ranged damage less than melee damage. That's their answer to melee feeling "left out" is to nerf ranged combat into the ground. I don't remember if I read that in one of their actual responses, or if it was something that was pulled from one of the discord talks on the subject. I played a pure ranger AA when it wasn't cool, and I still play them today, although mainly for past lives for other ranged toon ideas, such as my FvS AA, and none of this is doing me any real favors.

[Discpsycho]

I noticed Vile chemist gets a similar ability to Ninja Spy 2 core that works with throwing weapon expertise similar to how Ninja spy 2 works with Shuriken expertise. I was wondering if there is any way we can add something similar to Swashbuckler or Vistani Knife Fighter so they too can be awesome throwing dagger dudes too? They both have enhancements to support the throwing daggers builds but they can never compete to someone like a ninja spy monk with shurikens or a vile chemist alchemist with a dart/throwing dagger, cos they get like a chance to throw an extra projectile twice per point of dex/int. It would be swell to see some love on the Swashbuckler thrower side.

To quote the first post:

- Core 3: +3% Doublestrike. You gain a chance based on your Intelligence score to throw an extra Simple Thrown Weapon per attack

Throwing Daggers are simple thrown weapons, so Swash and Vistani will do just fine in that regard.

Both Swash and Vistani also add +1 (competence) crit multiplier and range, while VC adds +1 multiplier in Core 5 and +1 range in T5, so either of these are valid substitutes if you're not going 18 Alch. T5 Alch adds an additional +1 range for darts (as does Swash), but Darts only get +1 range from Improved Critical while Throwing Daggers get +2

Throwing Daggers:
Base 19-20 x2, +1 range (swash c2 / alch t5 / vistani c4), +1 multiplier (swash c2 / alch c5 / vistani c4), + 2 range (IC)
-> 16-20 x3

Darts:
Base 20 x2, +2 range (swash c2 / alch t5). +1 multiplier (swash c2, alch c5), +1 range (IC)
-> 17-20 x3

Both of these will benefit equally from EDs as neither is bludgeoning (Pulverizer). Endgame throwing Daggers and Darts are relatively comparable -
of those that drop from 28 / 29 raids and quests, none have expanded crit ranges and should be in the same proc neighborhood. Epic Returning Snowball gets +1 range and is bludgeoning but its procs aren't quite as good

From what I can tell, the main question is in heroic levels. Daggers get earlier access to crit boosts via VKF and a free +20% doubleshot from Rapid Throw. Darts don't get any such bonuses, but Nightforge Spike has a base 16-20 x3 crit profile that becomes 14-20 x3 at level 12 (vs. daggers' 16-20 x3)

[CeltEireson]

Swapping ranged to a single target model isn't a bad idea if that's whats led to the IPS nerf, but it needs to hit like a truck single target and consistently to compete with all the aoe builds who should hit more targets softer. Take your precise shot stance change, part of its good in you don't need to stand still anymore, part of its bad in that you need to hit the same target to build stacks and they poof as soon as you hit a new one, you're essentially saying that you need to hit something for a full 15 seconds minimum to get the full benefit and that benefit will disappear as soon as that target dies, which in its current state is actually a nerf you're trying to use as a buff. You can fix some of this by either a) removing the 1 stack per second so your multishot can give you added stacks or b) removing the requirement of hitting the same target or c) both, which if you do b makes a kind of unnecessary.

Have to agree with this - a bonus for single target attacks that needs stacking to be useful is only ever going to be useful against bosses when you will likely be killing single ordinary mobs in in a small number of hits, in many cases you may only get 2-3 stacks which will immediately disappear once its dead.

Secondly, devs said that they would be looking at bow dps specifically to try and bring it up to match other ranged styles but that it wouldn't be in this next release. If that's the case then I strongly suggest it not wait until the next full update as they're going to make a lot of people very unhappy (although looking at the lammia forums that seems to be the case anyway ).

[Meltone_revenants]

To quote the first post:

- Core 3: +3% Doublestrike. You gain a chance based on your Intelligence score to throw an extra Simple Thrown Weapon per attack

Throwing Daggers are simple thrown weapons, so Swash and Vistani will do just fine in that regard.

Both Swash and Vistani also add +1 (competence) crit multiplier and range, while VC adds +1 multiplier in Core 5 and +1 range in T5, so either of these are valid substitutes if you're not going 18 Alch. T5 Alch adds an additional +1 range for darts (as does Swash), but Darts only get +1 range from Improved Critical while Throwing Daggers get +2

Throwing Daggers:
Base 19-20 x2, +1 range (swash c2 / alch t5 / vistani c4), +1 multiplier (swash c2 / alch c5 / vistani c4), + 2 range (IC)
-> 16-20 x3

Darts:
Base 20 x2, +2 range (swash c2 / alch t5). +1 multiplier (swash c2, alch c5), +1 range (IC)
-> 17-20 x3

Both of these will benefit equally from EDs as neither is bludgeoning (Pulverizer). Endgame throwing Daggers and Darts are relatively comparable -
of those that drop from 28 / 29 raids and quests, none have expanded crit ranges and should be in the same proc neighborhood. Epic Returning Snowball gets +1 range and is bludgeoning but its procs aren't quite as good

From what I can tell, the main question is in heroic levels. Daggers get earlier access to crit boosts via VKF and a free +20% doubleshot from Rapid Throw. Darts don't get any such bonuses, but Nightforge Spike has a base 16-20 x3 crit profile that becomes 14-20 x3 at level 12 (vs. daggers' 16-20 x3)

I was mostly referring to the shuriken expertise and ninja spy 2 and the throwing expertise and VC core 3 combo. Basically If you don't want to splash or be an alchemist or a shuriken thrower you'd only get the benefit from throwing expertise and not the double benefit of having an extra chance to throw an extra projectile per relevant stat. I think it would be nice to give the swashbuckler thrower something similar too so it can as well get basically double expertise.

[0ldschool]

Has it been considered that nerfing ranged DPS is going to make the lives of melees more difficult since the mobs will live longer with less ranged support? If the imbalance between melee and ranged is the issue of melees getting hit more often, how is that solved by nerfing ranged DPS? Isn't a boost to melee PRR more in line with what is really needed? I'm honestly asking because I'd like to understand what specific issue is being addressed with the IPS nerf.

EDIT: nm, I read this again.

"there are significant issues with Ranged's easy access to AOE on hit "

I would argue this point, and further argue that a blanket 20% loss of damage to all targets is vastly over-estimating the power of IPS. It is not easy to build for, and for me, it's not easy to use. The more that I think about it, the more I realize that you're probably going to get your wish. I'll likely stick to Archer's Focus if you can't at least make concessions for full damage to the first mob hit. My guess is that removing IPS completely was on the agenda, but this nerf was settled upon as a 'kill it softly' solution. I'm pretty sure that my ability to solo most of the new LE content (high mob count engagements) is going to be effectively taken away, and that sucks.

[ssternlight]

I just want to add a vote for not using the delayed animation as a means of lowering DPS. If you want to lower DPS, simply lower the DPS on the back-end. Don't slow down the actual ability to play aggressively (lowered DPS or not.)

Edit: This comment was made after trying it out on Lammania. It's a very poor mechanic.

[capsela]

Has it been considered that nerfing ranged DPS is going to make the lives of melees more difficult since the mobs will live longer with less ranged support? If the imbalance between melee and ranged is the issue of melees getting hit more often, how is that solved by nerfing ranged DPS? Isn't a boost to melee PRR more in line with what is really needed? I'm honestly asking because I'd like to understand what specific issue is being addressed with the IPS nerf.

The problem was that IPS was killing 100% of the mobs before the melee could slowly waddle into range to swing their pathetic weak swords at it and do a tiny amount of damage.

The problem is solved now because IPS will only kill 80% of the mobs before the melee can slowly waddle into range to swing their pathetic weak swords at it and do a tiny amount of damage before getting one-shotted.

And now melee will feel like they are contributing.

[Jerevth]

Have to agree with this - a bonus for single target attacks that needs stacking to be useful is only ever going to be useful against bosses when you will likely be killing single ordinary mobs in in a small number of hits, in many cases you may only get 2-3 stacks which will immediately disappear once its dead.

Secondly, devs said that they would be looking at bow dps specifically to try and bring it up to match other ranged styles but that it wouldn't be in this next release. If that's the case then I strongly suggest it not wait until the next full update as they're going to make a lot of people very unhappy (although looking at the lammia forums that seems to be the case anyway ).

One of the game mechanics for stronger toons is more mobs. Trash mobs.
Someone run Elite "Grimm and Barret" with reduced AOE, at level. Then try without IPS and let us know how it works out. Solo of course, please.

You (Devs) keep saying "Balance" but balance is not making 1/3 of the combat style triangle (Missiles, magic, melee) crippled until you get around to introducing the improvements. That didn't work well with THF, either. (The jury is out WRT the Follow-through replacement for glancing.)

[Jerevth]

The problem was that IPS was killing 100% of the mobs before the melee could slowly waddle into range to swing their pathetic weak swords at it and do a tiny amount of damage.

The problem is solved now because IPS will only kill 80% of the mobs before the melee can slowly waddle into range to swing their pathetic weak swords at it and do a tiny amount of damage before getting one-shotted.

And now melee will feel like they are contributing.

No child left behind puts everyone behind the curve.

[AbyssalMage]

I'm not going to lie. I may actually leave permanently after this update. The IPS nerf may be the straw that is breaking this camels back. I'll have to jump on Lama-land and test but placing melee that far ahead of range to satisfy some discontent forumites is ridiculous. The game is built on AoE trash clearing and I have yet to see a single effective build that doesn't use it.

If Hardcore should have taught you anything is that the game is relatively balanced. Thankfully you left the public announcement for player deaths at level 2 so we physically saw the true balance of the game was lost at creation when Turbine made resurrection too common. If you want to make "Hardcore" only rules like before we are not against it. But please don't bleed the two competing ideas together. Unless you want to remove/disable Rez shrines in all legendary content

Honestly I don't know what you were thinking here. This feels like the Human Dual Action Boost Nerf. Or the Monk, Barbarian, and Paladin nerfs (Please note: all three were melee's!!!). Every time you make something playable you change your mind on what direction you want to go with the game. You need to share with us you "vision" or just retire and let someone else do the job.