U45 Preview 1: Balance: Ranged Combat Changes

[Jerevth]

Since I started playing (5 years or so) Bows were weak compared to repeaters. People wanted them fixed. (I ran with Strimtom's Acid Arrow and enjoyed it until level 17 then played something else.)

Repeaters were in a good place: people weren't discussing the pros and cons. All discussion was toward squeezing the most they could from a repeater build. Not a single word was said in the forums, that I ever saw, about IPS being too powerful. It is a requisite heavy Feat and there were times I missed it because of an oversight in building my character. I never attained it before level 15 on my main.

Crossbows were a joke.

In comes Inquisitive and suddenly that joke is being sought madly. Ratcatcher is the single most sought after weapon in the game, Coyle is reviled once more. And IPS is bemoaned as "too powerful" (Still don't see that compared to combining decent CC/AOE spells.) And all but six people are playing Inquis. Those six complained bitterly about it in the forums. (/Hyperbole)

The problem is a product was sold that was a catalyst to achieve dominance with a well planned build that took advantage of Fusilade and all the missile weapon speed-ups already available (Which are no different than the other chain feats for fighting- SWF/THF/TWF and Shield mastery.) To get the full effect you must specialize.

The problem is, Inqui is a "for sale" item (either buy the enhancement, buy Sharn, or buy DDO points) and I'm fine with that- purchased classes and enhancements should be better than the freebies; just don't go overboard, Devs. The problem is Inquisitive is too much and should be scaled back. People who bought/earned it have gotten their money's worth at this point. Racial, heroic, Epic lives have been crushed. You are neutering all but thrown weapons, which are tied into the new class, because you did not anticipate the breadth of advantage Inqui would give. And then you made an airy promise about fixing bows sometime in the future.

Why will you not take the simpler solution and fix Inqui- put timers on the overpowered abilities, reload slower for dual crossbows, resolve the issue at the lowest level possible rather than tanking all ranged, except thrown (Which would affect alchemist).

This is not how trust is fostered, guys. If you had the only game in town, it might work but you don't. People stay out of loyalty and because they love the game. If you change it up too much, in such an unbalanced and sweeping gesture, people will go find other new games to play because the new game you are trying to create is... aged, and still not balanced.

You need to tweak, not sledgehammer.

[Thar]

Yeah, adding the animation was an awful fix. Instead drop the duration or increase the cool down. Or both.

agreed, the animations for Gxb is horrible and clunky where moving and with lag can get disrupted in rare situations. NHB was great that it removed this clunkiness. Do you get an animation delay with cleave or great cleave?

[salmag]

This is false. Saying stuff like this makes it really hard to get good feedback. We've already announced significant changes to many of the things written up for preview (and seriously, these are PREVIEW notes) such as Dance of Death, Archer's Focus, and even the entire bow combat style.

Lynnabel,

You are an amazing person, good hearted, etc...

As someone that's been here from the beginning, (way, way back), the history that SSG/Turbine has been is, 'once it hits the preview server, it's a done deal'. SirValentine is 150% correct in saying that. Sometimes, they would withhold for a couple of weeks, but eventually, it goes live...

Please be the advocate for change to that statement (sentiment).
Please do not release the IPS and AF changes with this update, and see what results you get.
Please do not take a chainsaw to range combat when you can use a scalpel to the Inquisitive tree.

PLEASE...

[DRoark]

Why will you not take the simpler solution and fix Inqui- put timers on the overpowered abilities, reduce the reload rate for dual crossbows, resolve the issue at the lowest level possible rather than tanking all ranged, except thrown (Which would affect alchemist).

This is not how trust is fostered, guys. If you had the only game in town, it might work but you don't. People stay out of loyalty and because they love the game. If you change it up too much, in such an unbalanced and sweeping gesture, people will go find other new games to play because the new game you are trying to create is... aged, and still not balanced.

You need to tweak, not sledgehammer.

They are literally incapable of looking ahead, making SMALL game changes, or properly testing out trees (INQ is "the" prime example of this).


Rogues: Break stealth due to mobs agroing in groups, when you hide out of LOS. Through walls. Every monster has perfect radar. Tested by boosting over mobs,
while stealthed, in featherfall 20' off the ground, they still chased us. No footsteps at all, and they magically detected a floating, stealthed, invisible character. They
also brought friends from the next room, through a closed door. That was after a "fix" to stealth. Sorry rogues.

Monk: Using one set of raid wraps, in a specific ED, on level 29+ endgame builds only (claimed was doing 10% more damage, no build posted) = Remove canon monk
damage at HEROIC levels (replacing with +1 to HIT), instead of fixing one set of L29 wraps. Derp.

Range builds: Inquisitor meta plowing through Reapers/HC, due to the tree not being properly tested over a period of time = Nerf everything using any sort of a bow,
and reduce a feat that was working fine for over a decade.


Someone tosses up a screenshot claiming X character in testing hit OP numbers, and that's "too strong", but every single player in REGULAR PLAY (Not-HC, normal people) trying to
do same thing, can't hit that number? That's straight-up baloney. Post the build so players can test your phantom numbers and give feedback, or stop making unwarranted changes.

[barecm]

Lynnabel,

You are an amazing person, good hearted, etc...

As someone that's been here from the beginning, (way, way back), the history that SSG/Turbine has been is, 'once it hits the preview server, it's a done deal'. SirValentine is 150% correct in saying that. Sometimes, they would withhold for a couple of weeks, but eventually, it goes live...

Please be the advocate for change to that statement (sentiment).
Please do not release the IPS and AF changes with this update, and see what results you get.
Please do not take a chainsaw to range combat when you can use a scalpel to the Inquisitive tree.

PLEASE...

A couple of comments to your post.

I would say once it hits Lamannia, it USUALLY is already a done deal. I can even remember, but have no written documentation, that the devs once said it is a "preview" server, not a "test" server, so bear that in mind as well. That being said, I can actually remember some things being reworked from time to time, so I would say maybe 70% of the time it is a done deal or there about?

Secondly, I whole heartily agree that they should wait on the IPS fixes until they are ready to fix some of the underlying issues. From what I was told last night on Lamannia, updates to bows will be coming next week, so I am ok with the IPS / AF changes IF they actually do release bow changes within a week or so of the changes going live. Xbows in particular needed a nerf; not just inquisitive.

[Loromir]

Correct. This is on us for not wording it accurately enough at the start, but hopefully we were able to clarify this to the community yesterday....

Unfortuantely...I don't think the community is getting the message. Your best bet is to hunker down and ride out the storm. Then hope this has been a learning tool. Wording of release notes is very important and shouldn't be done willy nilly...especially when nerfs are involved.

[salmag]

A couple of comments to your post.

I would say once it hits Lamannia, it USUALLY is already a done deal. I can even remember, but have no written documentation, that the devs once said it is a "preview" server, not a "test" server, so bear that in mind as well. That being said, I can actually remember some things being reworked from time to time, so I would say maybe 70% of the time it is a done deal or there about?

Secondly, I whole heartily agree that they should wait on the IPS fixes until they are ready to fix some of the underlying issues. From what I was told last night on Lamannia, updates to bows will be coming next week, so I am ok with the IPS / AF changes IF they actually do release bow changes within a week or so of the changes going live. Xbows in particular needed a nerf; not just inquisitive.

I agree. They did mention at one point it was a "preview server," and I did say they they have held back on "some" things, but eventually it goes live. I would say 95% done deal.

There is that 5%. Xbow was in a bad shape UNTIL Inquisitive hit. RXB and GXB were not THAT bad, especially since one would have to spend a feat to obtain them. Not talking about mechanics - there are other builds out there that do not get the proficiency for free. (same goes for Dwarven warhammers) They are exotic for a reason - there is a cost.

When the universal tree Inquisitive hit, it was too powerful from the get go. People started abandoning their class trees to play exclusively in the new shiny. Spending over 41 points in a (arguably) "splash-universal tree" and ignoring your class trees is THE problem.

A scalpel to the Universal tree would have been much better than the chainsaw to range as a whole.

Changes to bows in a week or so, is more of a band aid to them nerfing IPS and proves that this is going to go live. They'll look at bows later. Nerfing range as a whole (including an already under performing Bow) is a done deal. As I pleaded with Lynnabel, do not release a new update until it is complete. Bows (IPS) getting nerfed is not fixing ranged play.

I was going to ETR my ranger then TR him, but I guess I'll just leave him camped, stagnant and unplayed at 30. Might as well turn him into a mule, which is sad because that character is the very first character I made back in 2006.

[Chacka_DDO]

First, I would like to say that I think a nerf of inquisitive is, in general, a good idea even if I think it is not really "game-breaking OP" as it is now.

I understand that inquisitive with NHB and great crossbows with NHB or endless Fussilade doing maybe too much damage but I dont understand why you are not nerfing NHB and Endless fussilade and instead you nerf double shot for everyone by 33%.
Not every build with great xbows or light or heavy xbows have endless fussilade or NHB available and there is absolutely no reason to nerf those build at the same time!

[Ashlayna]

First, I would like to say that I think a nerf of inquisitive is, in general, a good idea even if I think it is not really "game-breaking OP" as it is now.

I understand that inquisitive with NHB and great crossbows with NHB or endless Fussilade doing maybe too much damage but I dont understand why you are not nerfing NHB and Endless fussilade and instead you nerf double shot for everyone by 33%.
Not every build with great xbows or light or heavy xbows have endless fussilade or NHB available and there is absolutely no reason to nerf those build at the same time!

I suspect that it's because they didn't pinpoint exactly where the problems were, and just decided to nuke ranged from orbit to make sure they "fixed" it.

[0ldschool]

The reason you dont see pure mechanics is because they are flat out inferior to the inquisitive tree. You are much more powerful putting 41 into inquisitive and then getting tier 4 mechanic than just doing mechanic alone. Pure mechanic was also inferior to having 4 levels of artificer for a rune arm plus Endless Fusillade because fusillade was overpowered. The great crossbow talk in this thread isnt about a pure rogue using one, it is about players with Endless Fusillade using one. For some reason they have picked to nerf the entire ranged concept instead of just addressing the overpowered abilities

past lives mostly add durability, not damage. You are looking at extra stat points, which are fairly minor increases to damage as a few points in a stat dont amount to much in the long run, the biggest increases would be the 9% double strike and double shot. reaper points only add to your ability to function in reaper mode. Gear is the biggest factor in performing well, you have to have good gear that is appropriate for your role

Thanks, and I feel the need to comment once more about Mechanics. Bows are in a worse place for sure, and they need the most fixing. But they have the promise of some help coming. I fear that Mechanics, which became relatively extinct other than me after Inquis was released, are going to be forgotten. We suffer from slow firing rate as well, especially pure rogues like me (somewhat like the THF problem). Mechanics may have been OP years ago (don't know as I wasn't here then) but I see nothing that tells me that they are today, even with IPS as it currently operates. There will not be a flood of Inquis players pouring back into Mechanic even with no IPS nerf. This ham-fisted solution of -20% damage is not a nearly elegant enough solution to what is not just an 'all ranged toons' problem.

If you feel that you must nerf IPS, I would suggest in order of preference: 1) nerf only the synergy with firing rate boosts (EF, NHB, Inquis) and IPS, 2) allow first target full damage with reduced damage for additional targets (this is really the most logical choice if it can be done), or 3) at least don't drop the hammer with a massive 20% reduction. If this basic damage reduction solution is the only thing that you are able to implement, can you make it 5% or 10% at most and see where that gets us?

Please consider new players, and the non-meta silent majority.

EDIT: Other than loot feedback threads and the XP changes thread from last year, no other thread in this forum has more comments over the last 2+ years than this one. I very much hope that the passion with which the player base has responded here and the suggestions being made do not fall on deaf ears. We all have the same goal, which is to keep the game thriving and constantly try to make it better.

[Xgemina]

Throughout this entire thread there is not one Dev post regarding why they decided to nerf IPS other than the ridiculous statement from the first post that "...Ranged's easy access to AOE on hit..."

Easy access would be like Imp Crit - just takes a BAB 8. Or, how about Precision - BAB 1 and Dex 13? Those are easy. Shot, melee's get easy access to AOE on hit too - Cleave - just 1 pre-req that needs a Str 13. 1st level fighter -BOOM! an AOE attack.

So, if you're still going down the road of nerfing IPS then remove the pre-reqs. Make it as easy to get as Cleave or Imp Crit. Otherwise defend why you're nerfing other than "Oh, it's easy to get."

[ned_ellis]

I wish I could give 'actionable' feedback but sadly this is a very busy week for me so my comments are based only on what I have read...

I think the main problem (in all the threads, hence excuse me the copy and paste) here is two-fold : Devs, we're missing where each macro-category of toon is supposed to end-up* as well as what the next round of balance is going to consist of**.

As a general theme, I like a lot of the proposals - getting Inquisitive, certain bonus hp's (i'd still look into pally/epic stance stacking/values), some abilities (dragon breath), etc. 'in line' is fine. I can't comment on if you've got the right, numerical value in the nerfs but I haven't read any comments against them so I'll presume they are at least not far off the mark.

Ranged and 2HF I think are again in the right direction conceptually but implemented poorly. *This is where the detach is happening.
To explain : within the category let's propose your aim was balance melee fighting styles between themselves such as :
SWF = high one target dps via fast procs,
2HF = slower but larger damage to a few targets and normal damage to the rest of the group of mobs (AOE),
2WF = a situational mix of the two.
Then we could say the idea of Strikethrough is correct but it needs to up the targets it can affect AND not replace, but be in addition to, glancing blows.
Also the DoD change would be, especially in this context, unecessary...although making it work without the first hit is a must!
This doesn't solve all the problem of melees (defense) as others have said, however it could be a great start...

In ranged, longbows are behind other styles and the only one I know and hence can talk for. Whilst I appreciate the intention of trying to reduce 'aoe' and to compensate the IPS with Archers Focus (thus, in the example above, leaving aoe for casters, 2hf and partially 2wf***), again the implementation is poor. If you maintained the standing still mechanic or kept the stacks on each individual toon (that decayed whilst you change target, then accrue if you switch back) that would also be fine. As is, it hurts those builds too much **without having an idea of what you already have thought of doing in the near future!

IPS is another example : please don't do it like you've proposed! The most simple and sensible solution would be to decrease the damage per extra target and cap the number as a result (eg : 20% per extra target so max.5). However, the idea of reducing its efficiency is good, especially if you want to help balance ranged with mellee via number of targets.
To balance ranged within itself, apart from shooting speed I can only think of introducing range to weapons; I don't know if this is feasible so maybe for a different thread...but it would sort a lot of things out in one system. The alternative is via damage (longbow= sniper rifle, repeaters=uzi's, heavy xbow=canon, etc.).

KOTC : it seems, again, to be a good idea that needs more oomph - the T5 aoe attack needs meaningful DC's and highest of str or cha); the capstone too. If you make it niche it needs to ravage that type of enemy, otherwise better to keep it flexible (good call on 'evil creature').

With all this going on, I haven't even had a chance to study Alchemist (which I was moderately curious about)!

***the last missing bit of the puzzle = content design. We mostly reason with existing content in mind; if you have in mind say, Slavers or TOEE, a para arrow or 2hf build right now would rather claw his own eyes out than run it, especially on high difficulties!

TLR Devs : Please consider that we don't where you're going with this and that if you want us to 'believe in you' we need to know where you are trying to go and to 'follow you' we need to know ALL the routes you're going to take to get there, otherwise it's a whole lot of knee-jerk reactions (and losing certain playstyle players from the game). Not many are contesting the nerfs per se, but how they are being implemented! I have high hopes for Lama Take2!

[Ballrus]

Throughout this entire thread there is not one Dev post regarding why they decided to nerf IPS other than the ridiculous statement from the first post that "...Ranged's easy access to AOE on hit..."

Easy access would be like Imp Crit - just takes a BAB 8. Or, how about Precision - BAB 1 and Dex 13? Those are easy. Shot, melee's get easy access to AOE on hit too - Cleave - just 1 pre-req that needs a Str 13. 1st level fighter -BOOM! an AOE attack.

So, if you're still going down the road of nerfing IPS then remove the pre-reqs. Make it as easy to get as Cleave or Imp Crit. Otherwise defend why you're nerfing other than "Oh, it's easy to get."

Nevermind... (Lack of coffee).

[Elearim]

So.... why would anyone take IPS now? 20% of my damage is gone all because of some AoE damage? Not my damage, I'm not playing an inquis on my main (but on my alt), but that hurts Bow rangers too, moreso than inquisitives or repeaters.

Yes, it will hurt Bow Users much more, but that will be adressed "soon", since Bows are underperforming compared to other ranged builds as it is. That is, if i understood the Devs correctly. Altho, since my main is a bow user and will be one forever +10, i can confirm the underperforming compared to my other caracters which are Ranged/Casters.

I dunno, as for the other debuffs specifically to inquisitives I understand the changing of law on my side and greater law. But not the doubleshot only uses 66% and the ranged power decrease in addition to it. I wonder how much internal tests happened to cause those numbers to be so low in comparison.

Yes, the Inquis was OP, much so, since it can be used on any builds for its an universal tree. After one week of Inquis, it was clear to everyone in my guild, that it will be nerfed.

Not that I agree with nerfs ever, but if it had to happen, it feels like you guys wanted the tree to be dead because it's not going to be good anymore I think, maybe I'm wrong though.

Here i think you are completely wrong, there will still be many Inquis around, eve after the nerf, because the current problem with balancing is not the OP or UP of any build or class, but is a general development problem of the past few years, that accumulated into this as a symptom. The constant power creep and tr train entice/rewards has only been compensated by increasing mob dps/numbers and now we have a situation, where most ppl play some sort of ranged builds (which means x-bows/bows/caster, anything that can dps from a distance), because you cant stand melee combat unless you are a triple this and reaper that or have your dedicated healer or tank around. One exception is the barb enhancement con to hp swap (which is why 50% on HC had 1 or 2 Barb levels). But for the usual melee monk/2hf/2wf/swf/... it is to enter about 2+ difficulty levels lower as the same player/toon can do on any ranged build. And this is partly because the whole AC System is driven against the wall imo, a full plate wearer is usually hard to hit in the core rules, but with this insane stats of mobs, you need around 400 AC to have any noticeable effect, which makes AC completely obsolete as a means of melee defence.

BALANCING CAN BE DONE IN TWO DIRECTIONS !!!!

The current ranged nerf is fighting symptoms but not addressing the real issue. And as always everyone, that can perform well, compared to the left behind builds get nerfed instead of thinking where the real problem lies and adressing that. The Epic Defensive Fighting feat was the one and only step in the right direction ive seen for years. There needs to be more of those Feats (e. g. below), to increse the surviveability of melee and im sure you will see a sudden increase in build variety and balancing between melee and ranged (not talking about Inquis, as it was OP).

Example Feats:
"Epic Evasive Fighting": Increases Dodge by 10% + 5% per Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack Feat (ignoring Dodge Cap) and lowers your Spellpower and ranged dps by 50%.
"Epic Durable Fighting": Increases PRR and MRR by 50 + 20 per Toughness, Shield Mastery, Heavy Armor, Two weapon Block etc. Feats and lowers your spell crit Rate by 50% and decreases your ranged crit multiplier by 2.

And while i get, that this is supposed to be a group based game, and we need to nerf the builds, that can do reaper xy solo, its also a game with constantly dropping player numbers for years. And while it may be possible to find a group in the main playing time, on the biggest servers, that looks very different on other times and smaler servers (check the lfm on wayfinder at GMT+0 4:00pm or 4:00am). The call for a server merge has been loud and often and i understand, that this is difficult or even impossible (altho, since ppl can change servers for money, i dont see why you cant do it for free with all ppl of a server and compensate for guilds etc.). Anyways, unless you figure out a way for those casual players who have a life and dont live in the main time playing zone to get around solo, the constant nerfing of "OP" Builds instead of improving the "UP" Builds is a slap in the face for all not-by-choice-but-circumstance solo players out there.

so long...

[0ldschool]

The current ranged nerf is fighting symptoms but not addressing the real issue. And as always everyone, that can perform well, compared to the left behind builds get nerfed instead of thinking where the real problem lies and adressing that. The Epic Defensive Fighting feat was the one and only step in the right direction ive seen for years. There needs to be more of those Feats (e. g. below), to increse the surviveability of melee and im sure you will see a sudden increase in build variety and balancing between melee and ranged (not talking about Inquis, as it was OP).

Completely agree. The real complaint is not that ranged DPS is too high, but that they are too survivable compared to melee, just due to be hit much less often. Reducing ranged DPS is a bizarre solution to this problem, it does nothing to address this concern. In fact, it results in melee being even less survivable as ranged will not contribute as much DPS to taking mobs down. If you want melee to be more survivable, start providing more PRR (or whatever defenses are most appropriate) to melee.

[catfumaster]

Ranged combat in all forms suffers from the same balance issue vs melee combat; full damage from any distance. To get any of its damage a melee must be within melee range (IE close enough to trade blows with the enemy) while a ranged build can do all of its damage from anywhere like say including a safe spot. It's a risk versus reward situation that has never been addressed. Things like Inquisitive only amplify that inequity. Inquisitive needs to be re-balanced against other ranged builds and all range builds need to re-balanced against melee.

The changes listed here for IPS and AF aren't really reflective of the issues. A damage penalty for ranged combat based on distance to target is far more appropriate and would allow for more balance between ranged styles. Give a progressive damage penalty to each ranged weapon type that's harsher for some than others and overall encourages ranged players to move in closer to targets to get full damage. A hierarchy of the range weapon types of something like Throwing -> Light Repeating Crossbows -> Light Crossbows/Heavy Repeating Crossbows -> Heavy Crossbows -> Great Crossbows/Shortbows -> Longbows, for a scale of highest penalty for distance -> lowest penalty. Give Throwing weapons a bonus to damage at extreme close ranges. IPS stance increases these distance penalties and AF can reduce those penalties. Add some tweaks to underused enhancement trees like Deepwood Stalker to give them an identity which benefits from this system.

Players need to realize that IPS gives you full attacks vs everything in your line of fire. Cleaves being a single weapon attacks with no benefit from double-strike are woefully far behind that damage rate. At high difficulties cleaves are more of a liability than a boon while IPS remains a constant application of the character's full damage. Not to mention it operates best in ranged's best defense mode, running away. I don't want ranged to have zero aoe damage but we have be realisitc about how it balances out. While I don't like the lazy 20% they are imposing on it, IPS needs some kind of check on its power in place.

[Deathmaster35]

This is false. Saying stuff like this makes it really hard to get good feedback.

I cant image what you and the team have to go through with the type of feedback that gets posted here, seems like most the posts are almost worthless hyperbole giving an emotional outburst. Trying to sort out what is people exaggerating and what is people giving honest feedback seems next to impossible.

makes it hard for me to even want to chime in and give feedback since it gets drown out in all the hyperbolic posts, so instead of having a discussion about the issues people have discussions about the exaggerated situations people bring up

[barecm]

I agree. They did mention at one point it was a "preview server," and I did say they they have held back on "some" things, but eventually it goes live. I would say 95% done deal.

There is that 5%. Xbow was in a bad shape UNTIL Inquisitive hit. RXB and GXB were not THAT bad, especially since one would have to spend a feat to obtain them. Not talking about mechanics - there are other builds out there that do not get the proficiency for free. (same goes for Dwarven warhammers) They are exotic for a reason - there is a cost.

When the universal tree Inquisitive hit, it was too powerful from the get go. People started abandoning their class trees to play exclusively in the new shiny. Spending over 41 points in a (arguably) "splash-universal tree" and ignoring your class trees is THE problem.

A scalpel to the Universal tree would have been much better than the chainsaw to range as a whole.

Changes to bows in a week or so, is more of a band aid to them nerfing IPS and proves that this is going to go live. They'll look at bows later. Nerfing range as a whole (including an already under performing Bow) is a done deal. As I pleaded with Lynnabel, do not release a new update until it is complete. Bows (IPS) getting nerfed is not fixing ranged play.

I was going to ETR my ranger then TR him, but I guess I'll just leave him camped, stagnant and unplayed at 30. Might as well turn him into a mule, which is sad because that character is the very first character I made back in 2006.

My take on what was said was that the bow pass is next week, not later in the year. I am not sure if it was originally later in the year and it got bumped up due to the backlash here, or it was always planned for next week but information was not communicated correctly. Either way, from what I asked last night and the answers given on lamannia, I am expecting the full bow pass in a few weeks as I was lead to believe. I will reserve the right to have a meltdown if they fail to deliver... lol

[capsela]

Completely agree. The real complaint is not that ranged DPS is too high, but that they are too survivable compared to melee, just due to be hit much less often. Reducing ranged DPS is a bizarre solution to this problem, it does nothing to address this concern. In fact, it results in melee being even less survivable as ranged will not contribute as much DPS to taking mobs down. If you want melee to be more survivable, start providing more PRR (or whatever defenses are most appropriate) to melee.

Heavy armor users getting one shot in high reaper doesn't make sense. PRR acts the same for cloth and armor regardless.

The PRR values wearing armor should not be on the same scale as cloth.

Keep the current PRR values in place for cloth and make a seperate PRR scale for amor. Pushing the damage reduction to 90%. So at least armor users could be hit more than once and not be instantly killed in high reaper.

[CaptainSpacePony]

Why reduce Dual Xbow DS by 1/3? Why not 1/2? That's more inline with repeaters getting a 2/3 penalty.

2 xbows = 2x as many shots so 50% makes sense to me.