DDO Devs, Myopia, and Hiatus

[jakeelala]

I've just gotten around to confirming that Dev's have in the last update changed every single ability in the Arcane Archer tree to function only with a bow.

This has eliminated the following extremely popular builds:

-Fury of the Wild Shuriken throwers
-High Wisdom, DC based Throwers (Paralyze Arrows, PK, etc).

They have buffed crossbow builds, again. So, they eliminated what were some of the most fun, creative, and difficult to gear and play builds in the game, and replaced them with...

Auto attacking, pew pew pew crossbow builds aka Artificer 20. Since we didn't have enough crossbow pew pew pew builds with the massively powerful Mechanic 18 Rogue/2 X builds running around. If I didn't know better I'd almost say the Devs really only care about people playing pure 20 characters, with crossbows. After all, the best thrower you can make now is a 20 Monk, for the first time in 4 or 5 years.

This is sad. It's poor decision making. It's myopic. Bows are pretty much unviable at endgame AND during leveling at this point, making Arcane Archer go from what was one of the best enhancement trees for ranged combat to one that is completely and utterly worthless.

Until there's a some sort of actual direction and plan for ranged combat that isn't just auto attacking with a crossbow, I think I quit. This game is getting stale as hell with regard to builds. Between this and the stealth nerf to wolves and tree builds, why even play this game if you want a challenge or complicated playing mechanics? There's literally nothing left that isn't just auto-attack or melee that gets killed immediately in reaper combat.

Becoming WoW is not an option for DDO, but apparently the Devs think it is. Boring, unoriginal incremental power creep loot every update, and continued nerfing of all creative and hard to play but superior builds without replacement = crappier version of WoW with no players and bad, old graphics.

I'm pouring one out for my homey DDO tonight, we had A LOT of good times.

[LXP]

I've just gotten around to confirming that Dev's have in the last update changed every single ability in the Arcane Archer tree to function only with a bow.

This has eliminated the following extremely popular builds:

-Fury of the Wild Shuriken throwers
-High Wisdom, DC based Throwers (Paralyze Arrows, PK, etc).

They have buffed crossbow builds, again. So, they eliminated what were some of the most fun, creative, and difficult to gear and play builds in the game, and replaced them with...

Auto attacking, pew pew pew crossbow builds aka Artificer 20. Since we didn't have enough crossbow pew pew pew builds with the massively powerful Mechanic 18 Rogue/2 X builds running around. If I didn't know better I'd almost say the Devs really only care about people playing pure 20 characters, with crossbows. After all, the best thrower you can make now is a 20 Monk, for the first time in 4 or 5 years.

This is sad. It's poor decision making. It's myopic. Bows are pretty much unviable at endgame AND during leveling at this point, making Arcane Archer go from what was one of the best enhancement trees for ranged combat to one that is completely and utterly worthless.

Until there's a some sort of actual direction and plan for ranged combat that isn't just auto attacking with a crossbow, I think I quit. This game is getting stale as hell with regard to builds. Between this and the stealth nerf to wolves and tree builds, why even play this game if you want a challenge or complicated playing mechanics? There's literally nothing left that isn't just auto-attack or melee that gets killed immediately in reaper combat.

Becoming WoW is not an option for DDO, but apparently the Devs think it is. Boring, unoriginal incremental power creep loot every update, and continued nerfing of all creative and hard to play but superior builds without replacement = crappier version of WoW with no players and bad, old graphics.

I'm pouring one out for my homey DDO tonight, we had A LOT of good times.

I think you are forgetting or simply ignoring one little thing here - that the AA was never meant to work with anything but a bow. As long as it worked with other stuff, it was nothing but a bug that got exploited. And I am sure everyone who used it knew that.

And it's just that simple. To use another, rather current example: if you see a +10 some ability, +10 something else wondrous craftsmanship item without ML on the shard exchange, buy it at your own risk - because there is OBVIOUSLY something wrong with it, and it might get FIXED any time later.

And it's the same thing with these exploit builds. They might be fun, but please stop whining when the underlying bugs get fixed and these builds become useless.

Just my 2 cents.

[karatemack]

1. Thrower builds are fine.

2. Bug fixes (this one in-particular) are (is) good.

3. Describing any ranged toon (archer, mech, shuri) as "difficult to play" seems like a stretch. FoTM builds are such due to the ease with which they can be created/played.

[Wizza]

Was this documented in the Release Notes? I know the Imbues were IIRC, but everything else too?

[jakeelala]

I think you are forgetting or simply ignoring one little thing here - that the AA was never meant to work with anything but a bow. As long as it worked with other stuff, it was nothing but a bug that got exploited. And I am sure everyone who used it knew that.

And it's just that simple. To use another, rather current example: if you see a +10 some ability, +10 something else wondrous craftsmanship item without ML on the shard exchange, buy it at your own risk - because there is OBVIOUSLY something wrong with it, and it might get FIXED any time later.

And it's the same thing with these exploit builds. They might be fun, but please stop whining when the underlying bugs get fixed and these builds become useless.

Just my 2 cents.

I think you're forgetting to actually think about what I'm writing instead of coming in here and rudely accuse me of whining about losing exploits.

There was NO REASON AA stuff couldn't work with throwers or crossbows. There was no reason to nerf fun and interesting builds into oblivion from space because the word "Archer" appeared in the enhancement tree. If DDO had actual, important differentiating qualities to ranged combat, I could see your point. As it stands however, you're basically just making an argument for ultra literal interpretation of the name of a thing in a made up video game about made up fantasy stuff. That isn't what matters. What matters is DDO is, and has always been, about BUILDS.

They just destroyed what are arguably three of the most creative and fun builds in all of DDO, in one update (Wolves, Trees, and Fury Throwers, with honorable mention to DC throwers). They invalidated (completely, thoroughly, 100%) the AA tree with these changes. They took away any reason to play a druid at all, and any reason to use an entire epic destiny (Primal Avatar).

If you want to gloat about some pseudo-exploitative nonsense and feel holier than thou while DDO sheds creative and hard working builder/players go ahead and play the violin while Rome burns. Good luck with that attitude and have fun holding down your right mouse button and not really ever doing anything else.

[jakeelala]

Was this documented in the Release Notes? I know the Imbues were IIRC, but everything else too?

No.

[Chai]

When you have to do the thing, then turn the other thing while switching out of one thing to the other thing, and do all those things in a specific order to get the things that werent supposed to work on the thing to work on it, you can rest assured that the thing wasnt WAI.

The overlap between folks complaining about having their OP toys fixed, and folks demanding nerfs of others OP toys, is significant this update.

[jakeelala]

When you have to do the thing, then turn the other thing while switching out of one thing to the other thing, and do all those things in a specific order to get the things that werent supposed to work on the thing to work on it, you can rest assured that the thing wasnt WAI.

The overlap between folks complaining about having their OP toys fixed, and folks demanding nerfs of others OP toys, is significant this update.

I'm not talking about imbue damage for throwers it's irrelevant.

Why cant a magic fairy elf with pointy ears imbue a thrown weapon if they can imbue a bow. Where's the important fantasy justification for that?

It's nonsense.

[Wizza]

No.

And here I thought everything is noted in the Release Notes

[jakeelala]

When you have to do the thing, then turn the other thing while switching out of one thing to the other thing, and do all those things in a specific order to get the things that werent supposed to work on the thing to work on it, you can rest assured that the thing wasnt WAI.

The overlap between folks complaining about having their OP toys fixed, and folks demanding nerfs of others OP toys, is significant this update.

I'm 90% talking about the ability to use Slayer Arrow, I don't really care about the damage imbues. The DC based stances were a great way to combine casting like effects and DC's with ranged combat.

Instead now we all just have to Warlocks. I hope you're happy about that too

[Cantor]

When you have to do the thing, then turn the other thing while switching out of one thing to the other thing, and do all those things in a specific order to get the things that werent supposed to work on the thing to work on it, you can rest assured that the thing wasnt WAI.

The overlap between folks complaining about having their OP toys fixed, and folks demanding nerfs of others OP toys, is significant this update.

This. It's an exploit. Plain and simple. More fixes are good.

[jakeelala]

1. Thrower builds are fine.

2. Bug fixes (this one in-particular) are (is) good.

3. Describing any ranged toon (archer, mech, shuri) as "difficult to play" seems like a stretch. FoTM builds are such due to the ease with which they can be created/played.

It's hilarious that someone would tell me "thrower builds are fine".

I've forgotten more about thrower builds in the last 6 months than 99% of people on these forums will ever choose to learn.

They are not fine, they are boring now. They are not active. They are now auto-attack RMB builds in SD or LD.

I never asked anyone to nerf auto attack builds, why do click intensive/combo builds like my throwers need nerfing?

[Chai]

I'm 90% talking about the ability to use Slayer Arrow, I don't really care about the damage imbues. The DC based stances were a great way to combine casting like effects and DC's with ranged combat.

Instead now we all just have to Warlocks. I hope you're happy about that too

Yes I am happy about warlocks. Its what people who arent aware of the more complex builds that are far better, demand nerfs of.

The complex builds I speak of are completely WAI however, and not abusing obviously unintended mechanics.

[Chai]

I'm not talking about imbue damage for throwers it's irrelevant.

Why cant a magic fairy elf with pointy ears imbue a thrown weapon if they can imbue a bow. Where's the important fantasy justification for that?

It's nonsense.

Because that magic fairy elf lives in a fantasy community where people rant about game balance nonstop rather than just play the game.

[Mr_Helmet]

LOLz, whining about never working as intended game mechanics finally getting fixed.

[Thrudh]

This has eliminated the following extremely popular builds:

-Fury of the Wild Shuriken throwers

How is this build eliminated? I think you are over-reacting.

[zwiebelring]

Whaaaah! this easy button toy is gone, now I have to use the other easy button thing but I don't want to, because nobody likes that other thing anymore, because someone said it was easy button....


It is good they fixed that, although I didn't mind that it existed. But reliable function of descriptive text is more important to me than anything else, since DDO has become a fishing for bonus MMO. The only sad thing is, that nothing is somehow clarified whether it was wai or not, since you have the oddballs like Perfect Two Weapon Fighting, granting a general bonus to doublestrike for everybody, who can take that feat but the name implies someone using two weapons.

The contradiction of descriptive texts and actual function in gameplay is terrible in DDO. The only thing we all should be complaining about is the intransparent treatment of what is or is not an exploit.


Till that time get over it, adapt, find the next fotm easy to grind build and move on. *smh*

p.s.: smelly dogs are affected, too, or so I heard.

[Selvera]

There was NO REASON *Elemental Arrows and Arrow of Slaying* couldn't work with throwers or crossbows.

I see a fundamental flaw in this statement. If I found a glitch where endless fusillade made my quarterstaff attack at double speed for 18 seconds, would you consider that a blatant bug or an interesting build?

If DDO had actual, important differentiating qualities to ranged combat, I could see your point.

This is what they're working towards with this fix. They want important differentiating qualities to the different styles of ranged combat. Arcane archer was supposed to be the advantage that bows have over other weapons. Let my bow work with a runearm or let me doublethrow my bow with bonus dexterity and I might see your point.

They just destroyed what are arguably three of the most creative and fun builds in all of DDO

I wouldn't use the word "just". Assassin and warpriest were destroyed a few updates ago. It's nice that they're trying to bring them back.

They took away any reason to play a druid at all.

Still gives a past-life feat. That's a reason to play it. Also; they're one of the best support classes in the game. They do need some work though; with that pet and the missing enhancement tree.

If you want to gloat about some pseudo-exploitative nonsense and feel holier than thou while DDO sheds creative and hard working builder/players go ahead and play the violin while Rome burns. Good luck with that attitude and have fun holding down your right mouse button and not really ever doing anything else.

There are a lot of interesting builds in the game. What makes a bow wielding arcane archer more boring then a shuriken wielding AA?

[Thrudh]

I'm 90% talking about the ability to use Slayer Arrow, I don't really care about the damage imbues.

Try the DWS tree instead. Fury Throwers are still very good builds.

They are not fine, they are boring now. They are not active. They are now auto-attack RMB builds in SD or LD.

I never asked anyone to nerf auto attack builds, why do click intensive/combo builds like my throwers need nerfing?

Plenty of clicking in the DWS tree.

[scipiojedi]

I've just gotten around to confirming that Dev's have in the last update changed every single ability in the Arcane Archer tree to function only with a bow.

This has eliminated the following extremely popular builds:

-Fury of the Wild Shuriken throwers
-High Wisdom, DC based Throwers (Paralyze Arrows, PK, etc).

They have buffed crossbow builds, again. So, they eliminated what were some of the most fun, creative, and difficult to gear and play builds in the game, and replaced them with...

Auto attacking, pew pew pew crossbow builds aka Artificer 20. Since we didn't have enough crossbow pew pew pew builds with the massively powerful Mechanic 18 Rogue/2 X builds running around. If I didn't know better I'd almost say the Devs really only care about people playing pure 20 characters, with crossbows. After all, the best thrower you can make now is a 20 Monk, for the first time in 4 or 5 years.

This is sad. It's poor decision making. It's myopic. Bows are pretty much unviable at endgame AND during leveling at this point, making Arcane Archer go from what was one of the best enhancement trees for ranged combat to one that is completely and utterly worthless.

Until there's a some sort of actual direction and plan for ranged combat that isn't just auto attacking with a crossbow, I think I quit. This game is getting stale as hell with regard to builds. Between this and the stealth nerf to wolves and tree builds, why even play this game if you want a challenge or complicated playing mechanics? There's literally nothing left that isn't just auto-attack or melee that gets killed immediately in reaper combat.

Becoming WoW is not an option for DDO, but apparently the Devs think it is. Boring, unoriginal incremental power creep loot every update, and continued nerfing of all creative and hard to play but superior builds without replacement = crappier version of WoW with no players and bad, old graphics.

I'm pouring one out for my homey DDO tonight, we had A LOT of good times.

On the one hand, I agree with you that it's getting harder and harder to make fun/interesting builds (since I hate going pure) - but it also seems like you are limiting yourself to "top-tier dps" builds and that's the problem. If you fixate only on doing max dps then you're going to be very limited in what you can play, but try taking some interesting combo and making it work. That's how I have fun in this game and will never get bored of unless they remove multiclassing altogether.

This concept of "viable" you are going to have to explain. It seems like they just nerfed the top dps builds in the game, so now other builds become "viable" since there are more builds that do top dps, right? If builds A, B, and C did 30k dps and builds D, E, and F, did 10k dps, well before you would think that builds D, E, and F were not viable, right? But now if A, B, C, D, E, and F all do 10k dps, then aren't they all still viable?