DDO Devs, Myopia, and Hiatus

[Draculetta]

It's amazing how many people don't understand the definition of the word 'archer.'

[Thrudh]

the build you showed is old, and was vastly eclipsed (proven by myself and others) by a Slayer/Sniper combo with Adrenaline. 71 second kobold time is 2-3x what a good Slayer/Sniper Adrenaline thrower could do as of update 35.

Ah, my apologies. I stand corrected. I can see why you are angry after getting used to a build that does 2x-3x as much damage. I guess they should have waited until this update to fix the throwing crit multipliers. If they had made both changes at once (take away AA, but fix throwing crit multipliers), you'd wouldn't have gotten used to the 2x-3x damage version.

I can tell you the DWS Fury version is still very viable and strong in epic and legendary content. Fury shuriken builds are NOT "destroyed".

But not as strong as your Slayer Arrow version. It might have been overpowered, if it really did 2x-3x more DPS than the strong DWS build I'm playing now.

[Ulfo]

reported for baiting and trolling both me and nokowi.

When you couldn't object in essence - accuse the opponent of trolling! A magnificent argument, continue, please! 8)

This whole thread is pure trolling and insulting of DDO developers, and now you try abuse moderators? Seriously? Ok, I want to look, than it will end.

[BigErkyKid]

DDO is just becoming more and more generic. Homogenization with each class update, with each nerf. Instead they would take a look at all the spells that are in the game and make them useful, they make ruin. Instead of creating new tactic abilities for melees, they add +1 crit range. Instead of offering more build possibilities, they support generic pures. Instead of taking look at some old game systems (i.e. augments), they flood the game with more nonsense. Nothing to see here.

So freaking true. And absolutely everyone who has a minimum understanding of building toons knows this is the case.

The devs also know it. They just don't care because they are not building a game for end gamers pushing the limits of the game systems. They are building a game for someone to causally farm the heck out of it.

I have always disliked ranged combat because of how it breaks ddo (massive imbalance, etc.). However now I feel that the game is dumber by the removal of viable complicated builds.

If they want to need throwers., at least offer them some other active attacks. Auto attack for the win?

[Ulfo]

the build you showed is old, and was vastly eclipsed (proven by myself and others) by a Slayer/Sniper combo with Adrenaline. 71 second kobold time is 2-3x what a good Slayer/Sniper Adrenaline thrower could do as of update 35.

Can we all look to this prove? Your personally or other (better)?

The difference by two-three times seems too big to remain reliable.

[Cantor]

It's amazing how many people don't understand the definition of the word 'archer.'

Probably why the skills aren't all very explicit, the whole freaking tree is labeled bow only.

[BigErkyKid]

Can we all look to this prove? Your personally or other (better)?

The difference by two-three times seems too big to remain reliable.

I think you need to be a bit more fair with him. While imbues where obviously broken on throwers (never intended to work on consistent multiple projectiles), the main complaint seems to be about the removal of active abilities (mainly slayer arrow, others too).

And this is quite valid concern, IMHO. throwers were among the last few physical damage builds where a significant portion of damage came from active abilities. Taking out those in AA while certainly dumb down playing shuris.

If they were to offer alternatives (perhaps better balanced), I think everyone would be fine with it. But just removing might feel aggravating.

[Morroiel]

@OP I get that you're upset about the changes, but really, you think "slayer arrow" should work with throwing anything? Wouldn't it be called 'slayer projectile' or 'slayer shot' or just 'slayer' for your argument to hold water?

Not picking on you, just tagging your quote so the subject is clear.

For all those that think the word "arrow" in slayer arrow is enough to label it not WAI please refer to the following:

Kensai Enhancements:
One with the Blade: Provides in addition to its other affects +20 ranged power. By your definition this isn't WAI.

Keen Edge: works on bludgeoning weapons such as mauls and fists, according to your definition this isn't WAI.

One Cut: Works on bludgeoning weapons such as mauls and fists, according to your definition this isn't WAI.

Paladin Enhancements and Spells:
Holy Sword: Provides crit multi and range extender to ANY weapon, according to your definition this isn't WAI.

Ranger Stuff:
Whirling Blades: Provides bonus to any set of dual wielded weapons including weapons without blades, according to your definition this isn't WAI.

Bleed them Out: Works on any melee weapon even those which would not typically produce external bleeding, according to your definition this isn't WAI.

Many Cuts/A Thousand Cuts: Works on any dual wielding weapons even those not typically associated with cutting, according to your definition this isn't WAI.

Tendon Cut: Works on weapons incapable of producing cuts, according to your definition this isn't WAI.

Rogue Stuff:

Fletching: Works on throwing weapons and bolts which do not have fletching, according to your definition this isn't WAI.

Dagger in the Back: Works on both daggers and kukris, according to your definition this isn't WAI.

Shiv: Works on any melee attack, according to your definition this isn't WAI.

Venomed Blades: Works on any weapon attacks, according to your definition this isn't WAI.

...

And the list could go on and on. Please stop being semantic about it. It was labeled WAI by devs back during the discussion and legitimization of furyshot.

[Mindos]

Hi what stealth nerf to tree builds are you referring to please? I really would like to know because I'm in the middle of a Tree life and haven't felt any difference yet. This makes me worry.

Also, RIP furyshot shuri builds. You were fun. But I guess there's no place for fun in a game

I was just about to ask this as well. What's different about trees? I haven't seen anything yet. Also, you can tell how personal a thread is when you ask a Question and the conversation ignores any newcomer.

[Morroiel]

I was just about to ask this as well. What's different about trees? I haven't seen anything yet. Also, you can tell how personal a thread is when you ask a Question and the conversation ignores any newcomer.

If I knew, I'd tell you. I have a couple ideas of what it could be but don't feel comfortable posting about it simply because I'm a far cry from an expert on trees and don't have one on live to double check / test.

Sorry, I couldn't be more helpful :/

Cheers~

[Thrudh]

If they want to need throwers., at least offer them some other active attacks. Auto attack for the win?

There are plenty of active attacks in the Deepwood Sniper tree. There is no auto attack with a Fury shuriken build.

IMHO. throwers were among the last few physical damage builds where a significant portion of damage came from active abilities. Taking out those in AA while certainly dumb down playing shuris.

If they were to offer alternatives (perhaps better balanced), I think everyone would be fine with it. But just removing might feel aggravating.

Again, check out DWS. I do not have any AA enhancements, and it's a very active build.

[Marshal_Lannes]

Well first, bows aren't useless. Now the advantage bows have is they actually benefit from the AA tree instead of xbows and shurikens dominating it. Second, why should shurikens even be viable? It's a little steel star. That ain't hurting no fantasy dragon I ever heard of. Glad they are gone. Third, let's get off the diversity of build arguments. You wanted a massively OP xbow machine gun. Don't worry, I played The Great Terror too. It didn't take any extra skill, just had to max out WIS, use the exploit then take advantage of endless fusilage while watching hordes of mobs get PK'd. It turned my lowly no PL character into an EE monster. I'm not sure how that is creative or balanced. Was it fun? Sure it was cool while it lasted but I'm glad it's fixed. Does they lead to more Artys instead of 12 Rogue/4 Ranger/4 Artys? I don't know I guess? Does it really matter?

[FAQ]

Not picking on you, just tagging your quote so the subject is clear.

For all those that think the word "arrow" in slayer arrow is enough to label it not WAI please refer to the following:

Kensai Enhancements:
One with the Blade: Provides in addition to its other affects +20 ranged power. By your definition this isn't WAI.

Keen Edge: works on bludgeoning weapons such as mauls and fists, according to your definition this isn't WAI.

One Cut: Works on bludgeoning weapons such as mauls and fists, according to your definition this isn't WAI.

Paladin Enhancements and Spells:
Holy Sword: Provides crit multi and range extender to ANY weapon, according to your definition this isn't WAI.

Ranger Stuff:
Whirling Blades: Provides bonus to any set of dual wielded weapons including weapons without blades, according to your definition this isn't WAI.

Bleed them Out: Works on any melee weapon even those which would not typically produce external bleeding, according to your definition this isn't WAI.

Many Cuts/A Thousand Cuts: Works on any dual wielding weapons even those not typically associated with cutting, according to your definition this isn't WAI.

Tendon Cut: Works on weapons incapable of producing cuts, according to your definition this isn't WAI.

Rogue Stuff:

Fletching: Works on throwing weapons and bolts which do not have fletching, according to your definition this isn't WAI.

Dagger in the Back: Works on both daggers and kukris, according to your definition this isn't WAI.

Shiv: Works on any melee attack, according to your definition this isn't WAI.

Venomed Blades: Works on any weapon attacks, according to your definition this isn't WAI.

...

And the list could go on and on. Please stop being semantic about it. It was labeled WAI by devs back during the discussion and legitimization of furyshot.

Dear sir, clear simple logic is not welcome on these forums. Please stop.

Nice reply by the way +1

[jakeelala]

Not picking on you, just tagging your quote so the subject is clear.

For all those that think the word "arrow" in slayer arrow is enough to label it not WAI please refer to the following:

Kensai Enhancements:
One with the Blade: Provides in addition to its other affects +20 ranged power. By your definition this isn't WAI.

Keen Edge: works on bludgeoning weapons such as mauls and fists, according to your definition this isn't WAI.

One Cut: Works on bludgeoning weapons such as mauls and fists, according to your definition this isn't WAI.

Paladin Enhancements and Spells:
Holy Sword: Provides crit multi and range extender to ANY weapon, according to your definition this isn't WAI.

Ranger Stuff:
Whirling Blades: Provides bonus to any set of dual wielded weapons including weapons without blades, according to your definition this isn't WAI.

Bleed them Out: Works on any melee weapon even those which would not typically produce external bleeding, according to your definition this isn't WAI.

Many Cuts/A Thousand Cuts: Works on any dual wielding weapons even those not typically associated with cutting, according to your definition this isn't WAI.

Tendon Cut: Works on weapons incapable of producing cuts, according to your definition this isn't WAI.

Rogue Stuff:

Fletching: Works on throwing weapons and bolts which do not have fletching, according to your definition this isn't WAI.

Dagger in the Back: Works on both daggers and kukris, according to your definition this isn't WAI.

Shiv: Works on any melee attack, according to your definition this isn't WAI.

Venomed Blades: Works on any weapon attacks, according to your definition this isn't WAI.

...

And the list could go on and on. Please stop being semantic about it. It was labeled WAI by devs back during the discussion and legitimization of furyshot.

This is brilliant illustration of how incredibly stupid the logic is of people fighting about semantics and the name of abilities instead of the much more reasonable approach of arguing that what devs put out as final work in the game on Live should be considered their intention after 3-6 months, let alone 4-5 years.

[jakeelala]

I was just about to ask this as well. What's different about trees? I haven't seen anything yet. Also, you can tell how personal a thread is when you ask a Question and the conversation ignores any newcomer.

forget the tree thing, I'm not an expert and it's based on another persons comment. For all I know there are still lots of ways to do it successfully. This thread is really about the AA changes to active attacks and DC stances, which were fun methods of making ranged builds without using terribly gimped bows.

*with a shout out to the wolves who got nerfed

[Tlorrd]

Honestly nobody cares about the semantics of the exact word used with regards to "arrow" or "archer". It seemed clear to me that AA tree in total was going to be taken away from throwers and xbows from what the devs said (and didn't "exactly say like the word archer"). It was only going to be for bows.

Jake, I feel for you that you've spent 4 years of time on a build(s) that is now wiped. That sucks.

But here you are 4 pages later still ranting about a game you quit in your original post.

[jakeelala]

Honestly nobody cares about the semantics of the exact word used with regards to "arrow" or "archer". It seemed clear to me that AA tree in total was going to be taken away from throwers and xbows from what the devs said (and didn't "exactly say like the word archer"). It was only going to be for bows.

Jake, I feel for you that you've spent 4 years of time on a build(s) that is now wiped. That sucks.

But here you are 4 pages later still ranting about a game you quit in your original post.

re-read the post, you have mischaracterized what I said pretty significantly. Even the title says "Hiatus".

[Jasparion]

It's amazing how many people don't understand the definition of the word 'archer.'

Or the word 'arrow'.

[Tlorrd]

re-read the post, you have mischaracterized what I said pretty significantly. Even the title says "Hiatus".

My bad.

From my standpoint, I hope you don't take a hiatus and now put your energy into ranged xbow builds and maximizing them. I say this from a selfish standpoint since I've gone back to mech which was my first class way back before the enhancement pass even started. That was my first class I went to heroic cap 20 which was before EDs and when we had linear enhancements. I think I was the only one using a mechanic back then on my previous server, since it definitly wasn't FOTM.

Anyways, your ranged knowledge and skill are good and hopefully you take up a new challenge of putting those skills to use in other ways helpful to the DDO community.

[LXP]

When you have to do the thing, then turn the other thing while switching out of one thing to the other thing, and do all those things in a specific order to get the things that werent supposed to work on the thing to work on it, you can rest assured that the thing wasnt WAI.

The overlap between folks complaining about having their OP toys fixed, and folks demanding nerfs of others OP toys, is significant this update.

Striking, isn't it?