Warlock NERF Again

[Eth]

That's an option and I'm sure it's true in some cases. But lemme give you another reason:

Players x and y have been TRing together for a year. Player x started playing a year ago and y started 2 years ago. Y has always dominated x because y has more dexterity when it comes to using a keyboard and mouse. X still has much to learn about playing and therefore always struggles compared to y. One life together x rolls up a warlock and y a bard. Something happens differently this life, x is keeping up with y and even leading the kill count from time to time! Its the first time x has played a broken OP build . X is wondering what happened, he thinkss himself that his dominating Y was because suddenly he is more skilled as a player but really it was just him using a broken build. Y is now convinced that warlock is super op, starts wondering were the game is heading and comes to the forums to expess there's is something wrong with certain builds.

Sounds more like Y is a huge ******. If I TR for a year with someone why would give a **** about kill counts?
But you are probably right that the people that come to the forums that complain about nerf x and nerf y are these kind of people.

16 pages of literally discussing which class can run easy content the fastest. Seriously? We really need reaper sooner than later.

[2pc2]

I don't know why you are entering in his game. At this point it's pretty clear for everyone that he's just running in circles repeating the same nonsenese over and over to avoid having to face that he has no fact and no proof about his claims of imaginary videos of other classes performing as good as warlock, those just don't exist.

Hell, he doesn't even have a solid argument to distract the attention. I would recomend you not wasting your time anyome, but that's your call

[Knight_slayer]

So exactly what proof do you want to see?

Anything would be good, still not seen anything at all (not saying there's nothing out there, just that I haven't seen it)

If Warlock is dominating all these classes, why is it we never see a warlock dominating achievements? Like nothing bar a few heavily splashed warlocks that perform a specific task. I believe this again is just an issue of ease to build and play vs other classes because I cant think of one quest in which a warlock has dominated the achievements related to it.

Maybe this is why I've never see warlock outperform, because the're not! The're just easy to build and play at the cost of being a little less powerful than most other builds. If there's any issue with warlock being op, its in heroics. But some class or another has always dominated heroics. FVS/cleric is uber powerful in heroic 11-20. Warlock is easy to level and very powerful for leveling but outperforming? no.

Over a year ago I did a barb life and made a few videos during heroics. This life I was leveling a warlock and made some videos of heroic, some of which are in the same quests as the barb videos from almost two years earlier. In every single case my barb life was completing faster. I haven't uploaded the videos from this life (coz the're not as good as ones I already have) but would be happy to or even take SS of the XP report from the warlock videos if you cant believe what I'm telling you.

I've also made 20 EA DC warlocks and 20 shiradi warlocks, builds linked in my thread, but found the class to be sub par compared to other classes at the time. The only warlock I ever made that performed anything better than other builds was my 12 warlock shiradi build (ruin king), build in my thread. But like I said earlier, it has its weaker aspects that overall bring the build back in line with shiradi builds of other classes.

Not seen one warlock build that overall was better than other similar builds of other classes. Maybe you can show me a video, build, achievement, something that will show me a warlock outperforming.

[Rys]

Now try pitching that warlock against an assassin, let's see how many kills the assassin gets.

Isn't the gameplay of an assassin and a warlock completely different thus the killcount measure won't tell much?

[2pc2]

Sounds more like Y is a huge ******. If I TR for a year with someone why would give a **** about kill counts?
But you are probably right that the people that come to the forums that complain about nerf x and nerf y are these kind of people.

16 pages of literally discussing which class can run easy content the fastest. Seriously? We really need reaper sooner than later.

LOL. Said the dude who 1 year ago was crying here on that forums about physical damage dealers being to OP and being able to stack to much crit range and multiplier ruining the game for him. Whaaag 40% crit chances is too much! Some still remeber that And now he is running a mage with sustained 60% crit chances and 1000 hp healing aura.

Sounds like someone is a huge ******

[BigErkyKid]

Isn't the gameplay of an assassin and a warlock completely different thus the killcount measure won't tell much?

Substitute kill count by anything you want, except fun. Speed? Ease to play? Ease to gear? Lower chances to fail a quest?

[slarden]

....There are other powerful builds out there. So? Warlock still outperforms a long list of classes.

....

Other classes do well, this is a thread about warlocks.

....

Point is there are numerous builds as good or better than the ES Blasting warlock. That may have been a top 2 build prior to level cap 30, but it hasn't been the best since the day the level cap went to 30.

So my only point is that if they want to nerf warlock again I am fine with it, but only as part of a larger set of nerfs to all the builds that are OP not just warlock.

I think the single focus on just warlock nerfs is the problem. I am fine if nerfs are done as a larger balance adjustment.

[nokowi]

Then do it, solo slavers 3, post a screen shot or a vid and end it once and forever. It's probably faster and easier than fill posts with empty claims to distract the attention of what really matters here. So far the only fact we have is that a warlock can obliterate the quest in under 40 mins while taking a cup of tea, a fury shoter take 120 mins to fail the same quest and a tempest over 80 mins ( or 100% more time than the warlock ) to do it.

The rest are just empty words about imaginary completions.

It's not that hard, just post something like that done by another class, no need to be you it can be some of those imaginary vids that according to some have been posted elsewhere.

It's been 14 pages now of empty words and still no proof of something like this done by another class by anyone, suspicious...

I left DDO prior to slavers.

Nor should I have to come to the forums and prove the game is too easy for me. It's enough to express my opinion, with devs as the target audience. I used to have a youtube site with videos but it was for people who wanted to learn about assassin, not for people who need to post the fastest solo runs.

I invite discussion, but what you are doing is not discussion.

If you can't understand DDO lacks challenge for many players in a group setting, a solo video won't help you. Having others post solo videos should be enough to prove the challenge level of DDO is non existent for many players in a group setting.

[Rys]

Substitute kill count by anything you want, except fun. Speed? Ease to play? Ease to gear? Lower chances to fail a quest?

How about...more interesting to play!

[Knight_slayer]

Isn't the gameplay of an assassin and a warlock completely different thus the killcount measure won't tell much?

Its the most ridiculous comparison yes.

[Eth]

LOL. Said the dude who 1 year ago was crying here on that forums about physical damage dealers being to OP and being able to stack to much crit range and multiplier ruining the game for him. Whaaag 40% crit chances is too much! Some still remeber that And now he is running a mage with sustained 60% crit chances and 1000 hp healing aura.

Sounds like someone is a huge ******

I've also been running physical damage dealers (and still do) that got hit by that nerf (which was a good one, yes), don't worry.
It's not like all people play only one thing and only demand stuff that favors their shtick.
I like to play different kind of archetypes you know. And that shiradi build is TRed and back at cap as a pure sorc, if that pleases you.

[2pc2]

Not seen one warlock build that overall was better than other similar builds of other classes. Maybe you can show me a video, build, achievement, something that will show me a warlock outperforming.

I can post it as much time as you want it since for now is the only hard facts we have.

Maybe you can show me a video, build, achievement, something that will show me another class that's not warlock outperforming this way.

[slarden]

I left DDO prior to slavers.

Nor should I have to come to the forums and prove the game is too easy for me. It's enough to express my opinion, with devs as the target audience.

I invite discussion, but what you are doing is not discussion.

If you can't understand DDO lacks challenge for many players in a group setting, a solo video won't help you. Having others post solo videos should be enough to prove the challenge level of DDO is non existent for many players in a group setting.

Yes this is my assessment as well.

I don't enjoy zerg fests although I am perfectly capable of it. However, there is alot of good stuff on netflix I want to see so from that perspective slavers has been really nice. Others can lead kill count while I loot the chests and get caught up.

[2pc2]

I've also been running physical damage dealers (and still do) that got hit by that nerf (which was a good one, yes), don't worry.
It's not like all people play only one thing and only demand stuff that favors their shtick.
I like to play different kind of archetypes you know. And that shiradi build is TRed and back at cap as a pure sorc, if that pleases you.

Oh but that was not the point my friend, the point was to show how someone cries and demands nerf for someone with 40% crit chances because they are to OP for his taste and 1 year later plays a 60% crit chance build, does not demand it to be nerfed and calls those who dare to be a ******. In my neighborhood we call that hipocrisy that was the point, so ppl reading here can get a glimpse of what kind of credibility some posters deserve.

[BigErkyKid]

Anything would be good, still not seen anything at all (not saying there's nothing out there, just that I haven't seen it)

If Warlock is dominating all these classes, why is it we never see a warlock dominating achievements? .

Point is there are numerous builds as good or better than the ES Blasting warlock.

I am so glad you guys posted this. This precisely is the problem we are having.

You (Sestra, Eth, Slarden) are power gamers. There is plenty of evidence that you are always optimizing builds and you switch to the FOTM. When monkchers were a thing, Sestra and Eth were posting FoT solos. When paladins became uber, both of played them and posted more achievements. Same with shiradi spammers, barbarians, tempest hybrids. And so on.

So you guys play whatever is the best in the current meta. As such, you hardly ever ask for nerfs or complain about class balance. You simply switch to the next best.

I am not saying you are doing anything wrong, but I am just trying to point out exactly why you think warlock is NOT OP. Because for you it simply isn't. You play builds that are up there in power, and the builds that aren't, you just don't play.

But some of us don't play like that. We like certain archetypes, and we would like to keep playing them through different updates. We don't necessarily want to be the top1 FOTM build in terms of power, but we don't want to be totally outclasses. We believe that game balance should be important, and that it cannot be that some classes / builds are so much ahead of others.

For us who don't play FOTM, warlocks are a PITA. So are some of the other power builds. We go in a quest with those in the FOTM and we cannot contribute. We are just inferior in power. It is not about gear, game knowledge, skillz with the mouse. It's just that one build trumps the other. We are not jealous, we do not want our thing to be the best, but we don't want to be a plain weight to the party either.

So when you come here and mock our perspective, or call as arse holes, or say we just want to nerf the fun of other players, you are so not trying to understand the point we make. If you have played with me IG you know I am all for everyone having their fun.

But I cannot have my fun if I am restricted to be a 2nd class player because I don't want to trail the FOTM.

[Knight_slayer]

That's an option and I'm sure it's true in some cases. But lemme give you another reason:

Players x and y have been TRing together for a year. Player x started playing a year ago and y started 2 years ago. Y has always dominated x because y has more dexterity when it comes to using a keyboard and mouse. X still has much to learn about playing and therefore always struggles compared to y. One life together x rolls up a warlock and y a bard. Something happens differently this life, x is keeping up with y and even leading the kill count from time to time! Its the first time x has played a broken OP build . X is wondering what happened, he thinkss himself that his dominating Y was because suddenly he is more skilled as a player but really it was just him using a broken build. Y is now convinced that warlock is super op, starts wondering were the game is heading and comes to the forums to expess there's is something wrong with certain builds.

If this were more true wouldn't we see it in the achievements? If warlock really is more powerful and actually makes bad players in to good ones (impossible though, builds don't give dexterity irl! but you know that), why don't we see good players becoming better when they play warlocks? Why don't we see speedrun record holders breaking their records on warlocks? Why don't we see anything cool from warlocks at all ever?

[Wizza]

If this were more true wouldn't we see it in the achievements? If warlock really is more powerful and actually makes bad players in to good ones (impossible though, builds don't give dexterity irl! but you know that), why don't we see good players becoming better when they play warlocks? Why don't we see speedrun record holders breaking their records on warlocks? Why don't we see anything cool from warlocks at all ever?

Achievements have been dead since forever. Last year was an impressive shroud spam by the same people, some warlock/tree, a shiradi zombie. Look at it now: empty. It's a desert.

[2pc2]

If this were more true wouldn't we see it in the achievements? If warlock really is more powerful and actually makes bad players in to good ones (impossible though, builds don't give dexterity irl! but you know that), why don't we see good players becoming better when they play warlocks? Why don't we see speedrun record holders breaking their records on warlocks? Why don't we see anything cool from warlocks at all ever?

First, the ammount of ppl who care for achievements is very small compared to the "normal" player. Really good players are so good and skilled on the GAME that it doesn't matter what CLASS they play they will look good regardless. As for speed run, well in slavers the fastest run we have seen so far is warlock, 40 minutes. The one closer is a tempest with.. 80! minutes or double time.

Here you have the vid if you forgot :



If other classes really are as powerful why do we see 1/3 of the server being warlocks? Why don't we see speedrun slavers record holders on other classes ? Why don't we see anything cool from non warlocks at all ever in this thread?

Maybe you can enlighten us and and finally we can see something like this done by a non warlock, if it's so easy and other clases are so much better according to you it shouldn't take much effort, grab your barbarian do it in less tha 40 mins and prove all warlocks haters wrong. It would probably save you a huge amount of time filling empty posts with imaginary completions, we have more than enough of those alreay in this thread

[Rys]

Why don't we see anything cool from non warlocks at all ever in this therad?

On the other hand, there are many cool things done by different classes and by different players on YouTube. Much cooler than LE Slavers, which aren't, in the end, all that challenging nor cool since it was designed as a grind fest.

[Eth]

Oh but that was not the point my friend, the point was to show how someone cries and demands nerf for someone with 40% crit chances because they are to OP for his taste and 1 year later plays a 60% crit chance build, does not demand it to be nerfed and calls those who dare to be a ******. In my neighborhood we call that hipocrisy that was the point, so ppl reading here can get a glimpse of what kind of credibility some posters deserve.

There's a big difference between asking for a nerf of something you play youself and asking for a nerf of something you only assess based on the performance of others.

Comparing crit chances of physical damage dealers and spell casters is pretty useless by the way.