Warlock NERF Again

[Vanhooger]

There are so many great player in this thread.
So take this has a challenge, if you want.

Do slavers solo part 3 video with a Barb, kensai or whathever you like melee.

Do slavers solo part 3 video with a Warlock.

Same player, same skill, just to compare the videos.

Oh kill everything ...not inv cheese.

Then we see If I am right saying WK is overperforming. If you prove me wrong I have no problem to admit it.

I don't do it myself because I'm not really sure I can do it with my pure fleshy Monk, as I have only Coccoon atm, I can probably do it if I farm out silver flame pot.

[Knight_slayer]

But your are naturally having an easier time in DDO because you move with the meta. Those of us who don't are the ones at the wrong end of the spear.

Pally tank and pure sorc are meta builds? lol

[Vint]

Class balance isn't a black-or-white, either-or issue. Class balance is not either 'there' or 'not there'. The classes are not either "Balanced" or "Unbalanced"--they are more or less balanced as a matter of degree. Saying, 'well, there will always be a best build' misses the point. The fact that there will always be a 'best build' doesn't make efforts to make the game more balanced undesirable. The fact that the classes will never be perfectly balanced in some ideal way doesn't make efforts to make the game more balanced undesirable.

Keep up with your fight then.

Even if class imbalances drive players away from the game, this is something that Turbine has had a hard time trying to fix, and nothing has worked. IMHO, there are a few other things that Turbine could do to retain players that may actually work. They are wasting to many resources on balance and we still see no results. This is why balance is of little issue to me.

[Powskier]

well,no one prob hear over the yellins....

but like 99% of toons I see are warlock combo-nerfhammer was commin no matter how blind u wish to be.

[BigErkyKid]

Pally tank and pure sorc are meta builds? lol

You are clearly much better at playing the game than at communicating with people who don't share your views.

Lol

[Sam-u-r-eye]

@BigErk

Eth is playing a 14 pally / 6 ranger (or something)
and a 20 sorc

The 20 sorc is not meta, but he, myself, and a few others are playing it.

I'm of the opinion that it is very powerful. I'd argue that Air Savant is actually the most "zerg-friendly" Slavers class.

High DCs
Spell Power (6100 dps single target)
and
Caster level Eburst bonuses make the build well suited to the zerg

Builds are optimized to content---not the other way around. The meta does not follow the balance passes, so much as it follows the requirements of the content.
EE peaks solo on a monkcher would be silly. The build solution for that is something else.

The same can be said for a MoD solo, or Deathwyrm solo, etc.

The reason you're on the bad end of the stick is a natural consequence of expecting the world to revolve around you.

[BigErkyKid]

There are so many great player in this thread.
So take this has a challenge, if you want.

Do slavers solo part 3 video with a Barb, kensai or whathever you like melee.

Do slavers solo part 3 video with a Warlock.

Same player, same skill, just to compare the videos.

Oh kill everything ...not inv cheese.

Then we see If I am right saying WK is overperforming. If you prove me wrong I have no problem to admit it.

I don't do it myself because I'm not really sure I can do it with my pure fleshy Monk, as I have only Coccoon atm, I can probably do it if I farm out silver flame pot.

You are a knowledgeable player with good gear. I know you won't convince nay sayers, but believe me turbine does watch the youtube videos. If you give it a go on your monk it might go a loooong way in convincing turbine that there is something off. Even if you fail.

Obviously it is your time, so not demanding anything, just saying. And frankly I think you can do it. Just remember that the dude in the end fight can be killed without DPSing too much the mini-bosses. I think it is actually more related to the trash, but I haven't tried enough solo to understand it fully. Once you kill the middle one, the mini-bosses do have a leash but its not super short.

Happy hunting!

[Knight_slayer]

You are clearly much better at playing the game than at communicating with people who don't share your views.

Lol

I find it funny you think pure sorc and pally tank is current meta. Ill explain that further for you so we are clear. You stated Eth moves with the meta therefore it is easier for him. Eth is playing pure sorc and a pally tank (his only active toons). How did you not understand my communication that I thought that was funny? Maybe you don't know what "lol" stands for?

[Sam-u-r-eye]

I find it funny you think pure sorc and pally tank is current meta. Ill explain that further for you so we are clear. You stated Eth moves with the meta therefore it is easier for him. Eth is playing pure sorc and a pally tank (his only active toons). How did you not understand my communication that I thought that was funny? Maybe you don't know what "lol" stands for?

lol

[Vanhooger]

@BigErk

Eth is playing a 14 pally / 6 ranger (or something)
and a 20 sorc

The 20 sorc is not meta, but he, myself, and a few others are playing it.

I'm of the opinion that it is very powerful. I'd argue that Air Savant is actually the most "zerg-friendly" Slavers class.

High DCs
Spell Power (6100 dps single target)
and
Caster level Eburst bonuses make the build well suited to the zerg

Builds are optimized to content---not the other way around. The meta does not follow the balance passes, so much as it follows the requirements of the content.
EE peaks solo on a monkcher would be silly. The build solution for that is something else.

The same can be said for a MoD solo, or Deathwyrm solo, etc.

The reason you're on the bad end of the stick is a natural consequence of expecting the world to revolve around you.

I played pure sorc till last week. It's indeed too strong AoE wise and can be compared to warlock if not better for slavers as you said.
Take same Sorc in TOEE and isn't that easy as Slavers. Of course you can do it, but look like Slavers for some reason was designed for Aoe casters.

[BigErkyKid]

@BigErk


The 20 sorc is not meta, but he, myself, and a few others are playing it.

I'm of the opinion that it is very powerful. I'd argue that Air Savant is actually the most "zerg-friendly" Slavers class.

This is what I call meta. Builds that excel in the current scene.

Builds are optimized to content---not the other way around. The meta does not follow the balance passes, so much as it follows the requirements of the content.

It is undeniably related to some changes, though. Shiradi spammers did not spawn again out of no change. Crit damage was part of it.

The reason you're on the bad end of the stick is a natural consequence of [U][I][U]expecting the world to revolve around you.

Wrong. I do not expect to have the most optimized for content build ever. Never demanded that. This is a straw man. The problem is when this "meta appropriate" builds are so much ahead of the rest. Running slavers on an assassin must feel like pulling teeth, and in a group it is just a pike fest.

You guys keep changing builds to the optimal for the current end game. You are not the problem, turbine designing content AND abilities such that some builds pull ahead so much is the problem.

Some people don't want power builds, they want contribute reasonably by using well geared and played archetypes that they like. This is not selfish, it is simply a preference.

[Sam-u-r-eye]

I played pure sorc till last week. It's indeed too strong AoE wise and can be compared to warlock if not better for slavers as you said.
Take same Sorc in TOEE and isn't that easy as Slavers. Of course you can do it, but look like Slavers for some reason was designed for Aoe casters.

Right?

( Hold + Burst of Glacial Wrath ) * Eburst/Nukes = every pack is dead

Am loving the casting speed and abundant step so much.

What build did ya hop into?

[Sam-u-r-eye]

Some people don't want power builds, they want contribute reasonably by using well geared and played archetypes that they like. This is not selfish, it is simply a preference.

You make good points Erky.

I'm all for quest diversity and not quest fairness.

Some quests are good for some classes. Others for others.

I agree you have a point about rogues feeling useless.

The reason for that is the Low HP of the Slavers mobs.

If it was upped by 100% then Shiradi would be less silly.

I'm reminded of past quests like DOJ where one class got screwed. We don't want that.

---
---

We do all melee runs of Slavers and they are much more fun.
I recommend this.

We need Reaper.
Reaper will be rogue friendly.

[Mr_Helmet]

The problem is when this "meta appropriate" builds are so much ahead of the rest.

Just wanted to point this part out, he's not wrong.

[Vanhooger]

Right?

( Hold + Burst of Glacial Wrath ) * Eburst/Nukes = every pack is dead

Am loving the casting speed and abundant step so much.

What build did ya hop into?

Same build I guess. Magister, master of air, glacial, Eburst, hold. 2 click done all dead, not really different to a warlock in slavers except you use blue bar all the time but they went crazy with shrine this time so not an issue.
They went from quest with 0 shrine to quest with shrine every 2 steps.

[BigErkyKid]

I find it funny you think pure sorc and pally tank is current meta. Ill explain that further for you so we are clear. You stated Eth moves with the meta therefore it is easier for him. Eth is playing pure sorc and a pally tank (his only active toons). How did you not understand my communication that I thought that was funny? Maybe you don't know what "lol" stands for?

I don't know what Eth is doing atm. I don't stalk him. But I do know that he played a barb when barbs where the new thing, a monkcher when those rocked, and so on. As you did. The fact that HIM particularly in this instance might be playing something else is besides the point.

My argument has never been about Eth, or about you for all it matters. It is about a play style. This play style consists in TRing to whatever is the best for current content. And people playing that way cannot understand the frustration of those who simply don't want to be changing builds. It has never been you against me. You guys play whatever turbine puts out there to be the best. It is not your fault if it is way better than whatever happens not to be the best. It is the dev team's responsibility to make sure that some builds don't just make the rest look like crab.

As for sorc not being "current meta", I don't think I agree. It is pretty good for slavers and most people acknowledge that.

And your jabs... I don;t think you are accomplishing what you want with them.

[changelingamuck]

Keep up with your fight then.

Even if class imbalances drive players away from the game, this is something that Turbine has had a hard time trying to fix, and nothing has worked. IMHO, there are a few other things that Turbine could do to retain players that may actually work. They are wasting to many resources on balance and we still see no results. This is why balance is of little issue to me.

Again, balance is not a black-or-white, either-or issue. So, I'm not sure why you would say "nothing has worked". Game balance doesn't either 'work' or 'not work' because games are not either 'balanced' or 'unbalanced'--they are more or less balanced as a matter of degree. My broom and mop don't make my house perfectly clean with 0% dirt and bacteria. That doesn't mean I'm going to throw them out with the trash and declare that 'Cleaning Has Failed'.

[Knight_slayer]

This is what I call meta. Builds that excel in the current scene.

Will you therefore be asking for nerfs to sorc?

[Mr_Helmet]

Will you therefore be asking for nerfs to sorc?

Don't they need to get buffed first?

[BigErkyKid]

You make good points Erky.

I'm all for quest diversity and not quest fairness.

Some quests are good for some classes. Others for others.

I agree you have a point about rogues feeling useless.

The reason for that is the Low HP of the Slavers mobs.

If it was upped by 100% then Shiradi would be less silly.

I'm reminded of past quests like DOJ where one class got screwed. We don't want that.

---
---

We do all melee runs of Slavers and they are much more fun.
I recommend this.

We need Reaper.
Reaper will be rogue friendly.

I completed a solo LE melee Slavers run. It was fun; I learnt little nuances about some fights and so on. But this is not how you are going to get your items before the next round of power creep. Efficiency matters. That's why I said screw this immediately after.

I don't think we disagree.

Just don't call me selfish anymore, m'kay?