True Paladin

[Judo]

who blocks doors anymore?

[Mazeratti]

Im beginning to be glad I was strong against friends urging me along a healing Pali path after reading this thread

Still waiting to see where I will fit in though with my Pure Pali.

[Aranticus]

Aranticus said:

* my fighter hit 60+ ac easily in twf mode, with intimidate, i dun need others to kill, i'll just kill them myself


* with 30 umd i can back up as a healer and carry 100 heal, restore, ddoor scrolls to complement my various status removal pots

* i crit with my khopesh for 150, regular hits at 50


Couldn't have put it better meself.




Ouch! - Are you referring to the 5/1 Philosophy?

man! ya a sharp one i must say

[Mr_Ed7]

Yeah well I am a Paladin, which is not a Fighter nor is a Fighter a Paladin.

I do not have to Intimidate nor be the top killer in the party. I have no plans to be the top healer either.

I can be a secondary killer & healer though.

Quoting a 5/1 policy misses the boat. This is a policy I have believed in the last 3 years while leading parties, not to justify a Paladin that I made at end-game.

You forget that my "fun-level" trumps your number-stacking and your opinion considering its my guy.

Have fun making & posting "builds".

*yawn*

[rezo]

Yeah well I am a Paladin, which is not a Fighter nor is a Fighter a Paladin.

I do not have to Intimidate nor be the top killer in the party. I have no plans to be the top healer either.

I can be a secondary killer & healer though.

Quoting a 5/1 policy misses the boat. This is a policy I have believed in the last 3 years while leading parties, not to justify a Paladin that I made at end-game.

You forget that my "fun-level" trumps your number-stacking and your opinion considering its my guy.

Have fun making & posting "builds".

*yawn*

Right on man, it's just a game not a life, lol.

Well, maybe not to all.

[Aranticus]

Yeah well I am a Paladin, which is not a Fighter nor is a Fighter a Paladin.

I do not have to Intimidate nor be the top killer in the party. I have no plans to be the top healer either.

I can be a secondary killer & healer though.

Quoting a 5/1 policy misses the boat. This is a policy I have believed in the last 3 years while leading parties, not to justify a Paladin that I made at end-game.

You forget that my "fun-level" trumps your number-stacking and your opinion considering its my guy.

Have fun making & posting "builds".

*yawn*

note that the main point isnt how you play your paladin but rather how you expouse your playstyle to be relevant and from some of the posts, superior. the problem isnt with you or your groups but when players, especially new players who pick up this rabble, they will have an impact on my groups when they join. to even give the notation that its ok for a player to suck because 5 others can carry them thru the quest is isnt worse

play what you like, if your playstyle is not the norm, do caution. with a title like "true paladin" makes new players think that it must be the right way to play a pally when in fact its probably the last way to play one

you dun have to be the top killer or healer, you just have to be able to pick up the dps role when its needed. you just have to be able to stop gap heal the party when the healer is disposed. when your groups are 1 tank, your pally, 1 rog, 1 caster, 1 healer, 1 other, your pally will have a niche. but when you roll with 1 melee (your type of pally), 3 rog, 1 caster, 1 healer, what are you going to do?

[Mhykke]

but when you roll with 1 melee (your type of pally), 3 rog, 1 caster, 1 healer, what are you going to do?

Wipe?

[rezo]

Rogues FTW!!!!!!

[Aranticus]

Wipe?

between the few threads, we seem to have developed a mutual understanding

[Kordan]

A sorcerer swinging away with their Spell Pen and Potency scepters can contribute to DPS.

Val

What's a sorcerer doing with a Spell Pen? :P

[Dexxaan]

who blocks doors anymore?

Well Judo, all I can say is: Meet MrEd_7.

........to even give the notation that its ok for a player to suck because 5 others can carry them thru the quest is isnt worse - LOL

play what you like, if your playstyle is not the norm, do caution. with a title like "true paladin" makes new players think that it must be the right way to play a pally when in fact its probably the last way to play one - Bad Precedent and poor beginner player Info.

......snip..... but when you roll with 1 melee (your type of pally), 3 rog, 1 caster, 1 healer, what are you going to do? - The answer is pretty obvious but I`ll let Mhykke spll it out....

Wipe?

LMAO.

between the few threads, we seem to have developed a mutual understanding

It would be quite incredible if either of you supported the True Paladin concept.... or the 5/1 philosophy.... so don`t be surprised.

[Alcides]

There are enough 2 weapon psychos on the server to the killing...

Clearly you are not well versed with the Raiding Holy Trinity of MMOs. You have 3 character archetypes.
1. Tank - An individual who manages the aggro, and mitigates a majority of the incoming damage of an encounter, in order to minimize resources consumed to beat said encounter.
2. DPS - An individual who maximizes damage done to mobs during an encounter in order to reduce encounter duration.
3. Healer - An individual who keeps the party alive during an encounter, with a minimal consumption of resources used during the encounter.

A paladin healer is not Spell Power or Resource Efficient. Therefore, it is not a viable raid spec. A "True Paladin" is one that tanks well all the time(normally a hybrid) or does a lot of DPS (Pure with Divine Might, Knight of Chalice). Those 2 weapon psychos are way more important than the 20-30 Heal Scrolls you might use.

[Absolute-Omniscience]

I can be a secondary killer & healer though.

No, you can't.

[shores11]

How about a true Paladin that fights and heals...while shield-blocking the door.

A Paladin should be a defensive fighter who can enable the team by playing junior cleric.

So far my Pally is set-up for cure moderate wounds, raise dead, 3 Lay of Hands, cure disease, lesser restoration and more.

Why build intima-paladins and tempest-paladins?

There are enough 2 weapon psychos on the server to the killing...

I agree to a certain point. My paladin (pure paladin) can heal and does help the party in healing, he also has a very high AC and provides protection for the party when the barbs/fighters are dropping like flies because their AC is barely above thier main ability score. He is also an effective fighter but I am not illusioned into thinking he does the kind of damage a fighter/barb can do unless he hits an exalted smite. But I would really stop short of calling him a jr. cleric as I did not want him to do this function to a great extent.

My paladin uses a sword and shield and is not a TWF build I agree there are better options for this type of build. I believe one of the main attributes a paladin provides is as a support everything i.e. healing, fighting and don't forget those nice aura's a paladin gives off if taken advantage of.

[baddax]

The paladin is primarily a support class IMO, they make everyones saves and AC better. Though the can (if builf properly) and do various party roles. DPS,Spot healer,Tank etc.

A well built paladin can
1)Provides Ac and Saves boost for most of the party (all of the party within the radius of there aura).
2) maintain Agro from weaker party members.
3) help the party healers rez/heal if players start to drop or Die
4) provide significant DPS especially against undead and evil outsiders.

[Mr_Ed7]

The paladin is primarily a support class IMO, they make everyones saves and AC better. Though the can (if builf properly) and do various party roles. DPS,Spot healer,Tank etc.

A well built paladin can
1)Provides Ac and Saves boost for most of the party (all of the party within the radius of there aura).
2) maintain Agro from weaker party members.
3) help the party healers rez/heal if players start to drop or Die
4) provide significant DPS especially against undead and evil outsiders.

Well said.

[Mr_Ed7]

Clearly you are not well versed with the Raiding Holy Trinity of MMOs. You have 3 character archetypes.
1. Tank - An individual who manages the aggro, and mitigates a majority of the incoming damage of an encounter, in order to minimize resources consumed to beat said encounter.
2. DPS - An individual who maximizes damage done to mobs during an encounter in order to reduce encounter duration.
3. Healer - An individual who keeps the party alive during an encounter, with a minimal consumption of resources used during the encounter.

A paladin healer is not Spell Power or Resource Efficient. Therefore, it is not a viable raid spec. A "True Paladin" is one that tanks well all the time(normally a hybrid) or does a lot of DPS (Pure with Divine Might, Knight of Chalice). Those 2 weapon psychos are way more important than the 20-30 Heal Scrolls you might use.

Last I played Dungeons & Dragons we did not use such terminology.

[Aranticus]

The paladin is primarily a support class IMO, they make everyones saves and AC better. Though the can (if builf properly) and do various party roles. DPS,Spot healer,Tank etc.

A well built paladin can
1)Provides Ac and Saves boost for most of the party (all of the party within the radius of there aura).

thats what the pre mod 7/8 (cant remember which one) do. with the inclusion of DM, DS and ES, pallys can now not only provide support but contribute in a meaningful way

2) maintain Agro from weaker party members.

how? intimidate is a x-class skill and thus pure pallys pay a huge hit on it. sure you can have a higher cha but again by what sacrifice, the higher the cha, the lower the str, con, dex

by dps? other classes are better at it

3) help the party healers rez/heal if players start to drop or Die

anyone with umd, clickies can do that

4) provide significant DPS especially against undead and evil outsiders.

how so against undead? turn undead or divine light? laughable. as to evil outsiders, you are also looking at a very dps oriented pally which is likely to fill a niche role ie dps rather than the generalist builds the OP is talking about

[Aranticus]

Last I played Dungeons & Dragons we did not use such terminology.

last i knew, this is a dungeons & dragons MMO called DDO and not PnP ddo. PnP builds do not work well in DDO, when i first started 3 years ago, i tried making a balance elf fighter. at L8 with 120 hp, 30 ac, i thought i was uber

my new wiz have 200+ at L13....

[baddax]

how so against undead? turn undead or divine light? laughable. as to evil outsiders, you are also looking at a very dps oriented pally which is likely to fill a niche role ie dps rather than the generalist builds the OP is talking about

1) Divine righteousnes. for Agro management. I doubt many will do the amount of DPS necessary to pull agro should a pally use this ability.

2) It doesnt matter that Intim is a cross class skill a well built/equiped pally should be able to intim all but the most dificult mobs if they so choose to spend the skill points for it.

3) Divine sacrifice works very well on undead. 7d6 i believe for tier 2. + pally capstone is what 4d6? when it comes out.

4) Heal and Rez abilites are still nice to have. The nice thing is it is a part of the character build and does not require UMD or other resources (scrolls and wands).

My whole point is a well built pally may not be the best healer, highest dps, etc etc. but can help any party in a variety of ways.