Turbine, Thankyou for correcting the description to heal and buffing divine healing

[Jaid314]

????????? spell power nerf?

I have no idea man. How do you do math?

OLD Empower Healing: +50%
New Empower Healing: +75%
75 is bigger then 50%.. Thats a nerf? .

Old enhancements: +50%
NEW enhancements: +80%
Nerfed? .. what?

Old spell boost item +50% perm or +75% Temp
New spell boost item: +90% perm or +110% temp +15/18/21 implement bonus (at lvl20, much higher possible at 21-25)
Again . bigger numbers, and you say this is a nerf?

I dunno dude.

Spell power went up.
My heals went up.

You keep using the word nerf.. but all I see are increases.

Nerf means made less . Buffed means increased..

All pretty simple stuff, easy to understand. I really dont get why so many are confused about this.

Just checked in game to get u exact numbers too as I recall my prepatch one for mass heal since I was pretty proud of that, doing more then most thanks to my rather rare epic Vulkorim pendant:
old: 480
New: 631. or with ardor clicky: 655.

you seem to have missed something there.

old empower healing: +50%
new empower healing: +75 spellpower which actually means +37.5%

new is lower.

old enhancements: +50%
new enhancements: +80 spellpower, which actually means +40%

new is lower.

old items: +75% (and it didn't take up a slot) or +50% if you didn't want to use a slot
new items: goes as high as +105 (using max level 20 items, to keep the comparison the same) permanent, not sure what max clicky is now... probably +15 before epic items? so that's +52.5% always-on (egad, an actual increase!) or +57.5% (whoops, back to lower) and it requires a slot.

so... in this one case, new is actually not lower, or at least not all the time anyways. of course, it also requires a gear slot.

so let's total those all up!

old: 100% (base) * 2.0 (enhancements + items possible, if hard to get) * 1.5% (empower) = 300% for mass heal possible. more for radiant servants. though of course, not all had that much since it basically requires an alchemical crafting item... but it was available, and from what i understand not *that* hard to get (just required running LoB on normal, which was not being run as often as, say, shroud, but which was not completely inaccessible and certainly not hard for a healer to get into i suspect)

new: 100% (base) + 37.5% + 40% + 52.5% = 230% (not going into the realm of what you can do at level 25. it's unfair to compare level 25 characters to level 20 characters)

so uhhh... yeah. i'm not seeing this buff you claim just happened. sure, you'll see higher numbers... but not if you compare like to like.

edit: bah, some of shade's numbers were off, i thought 50% enhancements sounded fishy =S ah well, change the first part to make it the same as before i guess, it still leaves us with an overall nerf).

[ZeebaNeighba]

Granted, its been a few years since my last math class, but where do you get the 200 from in your new system equations?

1 spellpower=1/100 extra base damage, I lumped the /100 just because that's how spellpower works with the /2 because of the penalty for using an actually decent spell.

I don't really care what yoru made up numbers say.

...

So no, your math is not correct.

Actually, I was using your numbers and your math. Interesting.

[harold2560]

Thank you devs.
-From someone who actaully understands what it means to get nerfed.

[Shade]

OMAGAD lvl cap increased to 25 and spells are more powerful? This is not a BUFF, this is the normal course of things.

Go troll somewhere else.

Pretty sure your post is the troll one and not mine.

Given i've just 100% verified ingame with real testing my favored soul heals for more iwth both heal and mass heal and no one has shown otherwise.

The fact spell power applies to ALL the ED heals (not just angel, but Shiradis, Grandmasters, etc) destiny's is just something positive I was noting, the fact that healing is stronger at both lvl20 and lvl25 is a good thing.

And as far as the "normal" course of things increasing.. Thats somewhat false.

ALL Arcane damage spells are were capped in U13 due to the fact they all cap at 20, except two which go to 25, but savants hit that wall anyways.

Mass heal caps at 25, and there wasnt enough +CL bonuses to hit said cap in U13, so actaully divine healing scales to 25 better then most casting classes.

Same is true for all other masses, which cap at various lvls from 25-35.

Clr/Fvs are and will remain by far the strongest classes in this game. They got some really nice BUFFS this update. To claim otherwise is blasphemy and Sworders god will smite you for it

[Malky]

old empower healing: +50%
new empower healing: +75 spellpower which actually means +37.5%

Incorrect, metamagics apply their full values to heals as of u14. Spellpower from enhancements and gear is halved.

Did the calc a while ago, feel free to check the numbers :

http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p...1&postcount=20

If you look at the most common non crit heal (i.e. no clickies used, 50% from gear was what most healers had)

Pre u14 heal, 40% enhancements, 50% gear, emp. healing active :
150 x 1.9 x 1.5 = 427.5 hp

Post u14, 90+15 devotion item (easy to get by lvl 20) :
150 x (1+(0.8+0.9+0.15)/2 + 0.75) = 401.25 hp

Add a better devotion by lvl 2x, 112+18 :
150 x (1+(0.8+1.12+0.18)/2 + 0.75) = 420 hp

Add some destiny goodies and heal does in fact hit for more than it used to. For mass heal, getting a superior devotion IX item wasn't exactly easy. Devotion items affect all spells now regardless of their level, so the average healer gets a big buff here compared to the "enhancement bonus but no equipment bonus" state most were stuck with pre u14 for mass healing. High end healers that already had gear to enhance mass heal will quickly get a small buff as gear is updated.

Seriously, the only case where i could see a problem is a low healing amp / tons of hp meatsack. Those builds are quite uncommon, so heal&mass heal were/are/will be topping off 95+% of players anyway at every cast.

[tasebro]

...Actually, I was using your numbers and your math. Interesting.

Yes, but you did not include the agenda in your otherwise correct calculations.

Axer does make a good point though, this nerf on divine casting is I suspect, perceived as acceptable for the majority of players, since it does not directly affect their perception of the awesome output of their melee mains, therefore the natural tendency is to dismiss it, and/or deny it even exists.

[Shade]

Actually, I was using your numbers and your math. Interesting.

I never posted a single number before you brought it up.

Only thing related I said was my guess about how the spell power applying less thing works. And it's just that, a guess. How the rest of the stacking and multiplication and such works I have no idea, all I know is its better in game.

My guess at this point is the less spell power thing only applies to certain sources. Like maybe equipment bonuses only?

I dunno for sure. Thats off topic anyways. The point of the thread was to point out that on average, heal, mass heal, aura and more got buffed for most players. A fact verified ingame by myself, and countless others ive spoken with.

[B0ltdrag0n]

OMAGAD lvl cap increased to 25 and spells are more powerful? This is not a BUFF, this is the normal course of things.

Go troll somewhere else.


Oh you don't have any Healing Amplification?

If he does then he has 30%gear 10% ship, 20% gear and either 10%gear and 10%(past lives or racial or class) or 20% (human/halfelf)

for an amp of about 207%

So perhaps.

[Shade]

Oh you don't have any Healing Amplification?

oh yea, not normally. But this dagger i been using does have 20% amp.

So 355 *1.2= 426. still incorrect math.

Whatever is correct, the numbers went up since U13. They don't change in U14p1. Thats what matters. Anything further is offtopic.

[tasebro]

....Whatever is correct, the numbers went up since U13. They don't change in U14p1. Thats what matters. Anything further is offtopic.

...but this one goes to Eleven....

[B0ltdrag0n]

Whatever is correct, the numbers went up since U13. They don't change in U14p1. Thats what matters. Anything further is offtopic.

Actually it is bad form to claim something (true or otherwise) and then say that anyone trying to prove otherwise is off topic. When the topic at hand is still being discussed but from an opposing viewpoint.

Which sort of makes this post off topic...but I digress.

[Shade]

A has happened and some of those you are lumping in B are actually part of A and disagreeing with you.

Do note that I am not necessarily doing so as I agree that heals are about the same/slight better than they were.

Well I'm glad.

And i know mel said her numbers were "littler" but I'm not sure she neccesarily disagrees with me on the overall message. I think she was mostly upset she had to get new gear. and I can understand that..

I was just lucky my fvs had some gear that gota nice convert.

I get having to get new/different gear over again is a pain to some players, but imo i dont think it really qualifies so much as an overall nerf.. Just one of those things with mmo's.. Things change, and sometimes ur gear gets outdated.

[tasebro]

Well I'm glad....but imo i dont think it really qualifies so much as an overall nerf....

I have a long time guildie who agrees with you Shade.
His view is that divines have been overpowered for a long time, and deserved to be nerfed but good, specifically the 50% nerf to casting that they got, as well as the loss of ability to Heighten vs Undead. He not only accepts it as just and necessary, but also measures it a good thing, a positive *benefit*.
When I pointed out how this nerf devalues the contribution potential that divine casters could otherwise bring to the table [but for said nerfage], he said my view was "not complete" (that is to say: "wrong") -- his view is that I should not focus on the nerfing of divine casting at all since it was bound to happen, rather that I should be viewing the game as a whole package, and focus on the *positive* that this nerfing of divines will force *all* players to improve, will force a more "active" play style (melee centric of course). So really this nerfdate is not so much a nerf to divines, as a *buff* to everyone else...if you look at it the "right" way.

That's the great thing about perspective, it lets you see what you want to see, and overlook the rest!

[dredre9987]

I dont think you all have read the release notes correctly...Heal and mass heal and sla's get half spell power not the rest.....And this was a description error.....Since u14 thats how it has been working...My cures and mass cures hit for more. heal slightly more mass heal a bit more.

[B0ltdrag0n]

I dont think you all have read the release notes correctly...Heal and mass heal and sla's get half spell power not the rest.....And this was a description error.....Since u14 thats how it has been working...My cures and mass cures hit for more. heal slightly more mass heal a bit more.

This is correct. On all account based on my experience as well

[Farayon]

So you're telling me that at level 25 with epic destinies and using a different setup than before, a FvS can now heal for more than they could previously at level 20 without epic destinies with a different gear setup?
What if I want to keep swinging that great sword on a LoB build instead of carrying devotion items all the time?

[sirgog]

Main changes I've noticed since xpack - spells OTHER than Heal/Mass Heal are actually useful without metamagics for the first time since level cap 14, and Renewal is just insane.

Heal and Mass Heal are about where they were pre-xpack for me, and Mass Heal is still my go-to spell.

[Flavilandile]

Ok, First one important point :

It pains me to have to agree with Shade... I'm usually part of the people that disagree with him.

Next the facts :

I don't do math or what's not. I work from Facts.

The facts are that for my main character ( Flavilandile ) heals works better since U14.

Before U 14 my Aura was in the 20-28 Range with crits in the 40ish.
After U 14 my Aura is iin the 30 range with crits in the 56-61 Range.
My Heal crits in the 1K range regularly while before it was uncommon for me to reach above 1K.
and my Mass Cure Critical heals 250 HP without a Crit and whatever with a Crit ( didn't bother to look at hte number it usually do the effect of a Mass Heal prior U 14 )

Add to that my BB Hitting in the 80 range ( was 60 before U 14 ), my AC being high enough for me to actually sit in melee healing those around instad of standing way aside and centering mass spells on a melee, I'm a quite happy cleric.

Now I haven't tested Yaelle yet, she doesn't have the same set of items Flavilandile has, so things might be different.

You're free to look at the characters if you want : ( Yes they are gimps, but they are MY gimps )
http://my.ddo.com/character/ghallanda/flavilandile/
http://my.ddo.com/character/ghallanda/yaelle/

[Monkey_Archer]

From my understanding, those who are seeing lower values for healing are likely using the same gear they did pre-U14 (potency 50%, no potency + amrath clicky, etc...) all of which has technically been "nerfed" as far as healing goes.
Those seeing equal or possibly higher numbers are likely using what has become the new standard healing gear (devotion 100+ items, spell casting implement 15+, etc...)

I haven't actually tested much, but i'm pretty sure this guy knows what hes talking about:

Incorrect, metamagics apply their full values to heals as of u14. Spellpower from enhancements and gear is halved.

Did the calc a while ago, feel free to check the numbers :

http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p...1&postcount=20

If you look at the most common non crit heal (i.e. no clickies used, 50% from gear was what most healers had)

Pre u14 heal, 40% enhancements, 50% gear, emp. healing active :
150 x 1.9 x 1.5 = 427.5 hp

Post u14, 90+15 devotion item (easy to get by lvl 20) :
150 x (1+(0.8+0.9+0.15)/2 + 0.75) = 401.25 hp

Add a better devotion by lvl 2x, 112+18 :
150 x (1+(0.8+1.12+0.18)/2 + 0.75) = 420 hp

Add some destiny goodies and heal does in fact hit for more than it used to. For mass heal, getting a superior devotion IX item wasn't exactly easy. Devotion items affect all spells now regardless of their level, so the average healer gets a big buff here compared to the "enhancement bonus but no equipment bonus" state most were stuck with pre u14 for mass healing. High end healers that already had gear to enhance mass heal will quickly get a small buff as gear is updated.

Seriously, the only case where i could see a problem is a low healing amp / tons of hp meatsack. Those builds are quite uncommon, so heal&mass heal were/are/will be topping off 95+% of players anyway at every cast.

401.25 * 1.2% healing amp = 481.5 (pretty close to Shade's reported 490, probably just a slightly better devotion item used)

[Perikeles]

I gotta agree with shade. The devotion changes are so much better on my 12/6/2 bard ranger fighter multiclass. Instead of healing for around 50. My cure moderates are actually healing for 90 ish with a little amp with the same devotion item. No need for metas and can easily heal with my low sp pool. Great change imo.