Mod 9 Monk Weapon Fix?

[Borror0]

the bard you posted has all three

DPS, yes. Support, yes. Survivability? Certainly not.

[wiglin]

DPS, yes. Support, yes. Survivability? Certainly not.

That would be player skill not build.

You have heal scroll no fail, displacement, stoneskin, warhchanter dr. I been capped more bards than any other class. If you can't survive it's not the class.

[Borror0]

If you can't survive it's not the class.

Bards are not survivable to the extent monks are. If you want to say bards are "survivable" then the proper descriptor for monks is "unkillable".

If you want to say that monks are "survivable", then bards can be "not squihy" or are "melee capable".

[wiglin]

Bards are not survivable to the extent monks are. If you want to say bards are "survivable" then the proper descriptor for monks is "unkillable".

If you want to say that monks are "survivable", then bards can be "not squihy" or are "melee capable".

Monks are very killable. I have reflex save in the 30's yet I take damage in monastery on more than just a 1. My ac selfbuffed is 59 or 63 with a 1 minute shield clicky, that I have to requip my protection item and turn on CE for more like 50 seconds of shield. Yet I still get hit in monestary my the monks..lol ironic. I also still get hit in the shroud.

Monk have good survivability just like bards. It doesn't matter if that survivability comes from ac, hitpoints, or self heals. It all equates to staying alive, yet a good warchanter will both out dps a monk and bring the best buffs in the game.

[wiglin]

Simply wrong. Prove it to me, just for rangers. Tell me how that is true.

Instead of posting every current ranger build Nick's sarcastic post sums it up for rangers.

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=171811

[Borror0]

Monk have good survivability just like bards. It doesn't matter if that survivability comes from ac, hitpoints, self heals.

Bards are not in the same ballpark as monks are. I don't even know how you can say pretend otherwise.

[...] and bring the best buffs in the game.

Never did I acknowledge this was a good thing. It is not. Inspire Courage is overpowered.

Instead of posting every current ranger build Nick's sarcastic post sums it up for rangers.

Ever since DDO went live, DDO has always been about fitting the most DPS in the acceptably survivable builds.

This does not mean those builds are 'survivable' but rather that they are at the optimal stance of DPS/healing.

[wiglin]

Bards are not in the same ballpark as monks are. I don't even know how you can say pretend otherwise.

Never did I acknowledge this was a good thing. It is not. Inspire Courage is overpowered.

Ever since DDO went live, DDO has always been about fitting the most DPS in the acceptably survivable builds.

This does not mean those builds are 'survivable' but rather that they are at the optimal stance of DPS/healing.

lol

No it pretty much means those builds are the total package.

[negative]

Are we debating the difference between the defensive abilities of a "front line melee capable" and a "true 'hold aggro on everything in the room' tank"?

[Borror0]

No it pretty much means those builds are the total package.

Wrong. My ranger has Intimidate, because it's quite helpful in some situations. I would never aggro a full room though. It's a death wish. Same goes for my bard and for any clever paladin. Aggroing a full room is asking to die and for the cleric to hate you.

I would do so on a monk, though.

[wiglin]

Wrong. My ranger has Intimidate, because it's quite helpful in some situations. I would never aggro a full room though. It's a death wish. Same goes for my bard and for any clever paladin. Aggroing a full room is asking to die and for the cleric to hate you.

I would do so on a monk, though.

Why?

We have a warchanter and a paladin tank vod, intimidating all aggro to themselves. It goes fine. A ranger could do it just as well. A ranger is no different, high ac, good damage, self healing, and if you took a level of rogue intimidate, umd, and traps. the total package. If you didn't build your ranger to do that, its not the class but player preference.

My monk with the current game could not survive as well as a well built ranger. A ranger can splash rogue / monk, and become the king of ddo. A monk loses too much to multiclass (less dps, less sr, and our dc's drop).

[Borror0]

A ranger can splash rogue / monk, and become the king of ddo.

Wait. That's your comparison? The build everyone to nerf?

/laugh

[feynman]

Here's a quick question for those of you who are arguing, to speak to credibility; which of you actually have level 16 monks?

[wiglin]

Here's a quick question for those of you who are arguing, to speak to credibility; which of you actually have level 16 monks?

Me

[wiglin]

Wait. That's your comparison? The build everyone to nerf?

/laugh

I would be really surprised if that build was nurfed. Nothing is against the rules like evasion in heavy armor. Not saying it won't happen, but I am not expecting it.

[Borror0]

I would be really surprised if that build was nurfed. Nothing is against the rules like evasion in heavy armor.

If they care about balance at all,they have three choices:

1. Spend countless hours bringing all builds to that level and making DDO further from PnP than nerfing it would.
2. Inflate S&B AC so that its AC falls into uselessness and figure a way to prevent pure monks from falling behind
3. Nerf it

Seriously, which do you think they'll take?

By the way, answers my original question: you want monks to be overpowered.

[negative]

How about if an increase to monk DPS was tied to fire stance?

For that matter, why not better tie each role a monk could take to each of the stances?

I mentioned something similar in another thread but it got unnoticed.

Back on the above topic, it occured to me that most people that take earth stance are doing it to increase their dps. I think it goes to show just how far off some of these stances are from their intention.

[wiglin]

If they care about balance at all,they have three choices:

1. Spend countless hours bringing all builds to that level and making DDO further from PnP than nerfing it would.
2. Inflate S&B AC so that its AC falls into uselessness and figure a way to prevent pure monks from falling behind
3. Nerf it

Seriously, which do you think they'll take?

By the way, answers my original question: you want monks to be overpowered.

Your definition of overpowered is an opinion just like mine. If they want to nurf all the power build all in one packages, so be it. I am fine with it. The game they make be a direct result of the players and what we can do. If they nurf everyone down to masterwork weapons, I would be fine with that. In fact I think I enjoyed this game most when it was still level capped at 10. Things were still a little more balanced. to dual wield it meant you were hit alot more.

That is no longer the case. If by overpowerd you mean like alot of other builds then yes. I want my monk to be overpowered.

[feynman]

Me

Anyone else?

This seems to be a recurring problem in the monk forum: People who don't play monks coming in to tell us that we don't know what we're doing.

I ignore them, but it always makes me nervous that other people might not, and get the wrong idea.

[Forgren]

Come on guys. why not? ALL other classes can make any weapon they want for their and the one that monks are missing, that are really the most important in order to use quivering palm and stunning fist as intended, are wraps. what's the big deal? All us Monk players deserve an explanation at least. So what is it Devs? Speak up, I can't hear you. If this was your plan from the beginning, then you should have stated such. Not one of us would have thought that there would be no greensteel wraps when we started. Why would you do something so silly? I see NO valid reason at all for this exclusion. You can't count shuriken, cuz who in their right mind would even make one for the intent of actually using it? So you have worthless weapons like shuriken, but no wraps. Geez, that makes tons of sense.

[Hendrik]

Here's a quick question for those of you who are arguing, to speak to credibility; which of you actually have level 16 monks?

I do.

Dark Jedi even, balanced build, Master of all Elements.

How rare is that?!?