Updated Death Penalty and Permanent Item Damage Changes

[xman26]

Again... 100 plat will get you a ML 5 one from the AH.

Bound items are bound because they offer better bonuses, or are usable at a lower level than something with equivalent enchantments. They are super twink gear if they were trade able, thus you can't trade them. The Ring of Feathers is harder to find than getting FF ML2 boots from WW or STK.

I've run WW about 6 times with my primary, 4 each with my 3 other toons, that 18 times total, I have only ever seen 1, ONE pair of FF boots and my primary has those.

[Emili]

Ok, so you would willing take the chance that your lvl2 FF item with a durability of 10, thats TEN people, will hang around long enough for you to find another pair? Or if they got to where mine currently are 3, THREE, durability, you bind them then come across another pair several levels later at say 9,10 or 11 or whatver. Now you have this better, more durable pair of FF boots, but its like 5 lvl higher than you highest next toon, you wouldn't want to be able to hand off your old pair to your other toons? I'm sure you would, but they are bound, nope sorry can't and your lvl5 fighter can't use those nice lvl11 FF boots yet and he currently has none. ohwell, hopefully people I pug with have a clicky or have the spell ready for those long drops or its gonna hurt when i hit bottom.

Next fire spell hits you and those boots are toast... I know the damage system in play treats an item which has damage - having a chance of getting more damage quicker then those which do not have damage. Soft items retire quicker then hard ones. Ie. a belt which becomes perm damaged will have a higher chance of getting damage then your undamaged armour does in every fight after, plus it has a higher chance of more perm damage when repaired since it already has perm damage.

[ArkoHighStar]

Well, after much consideration, it's in my opinion that this new "death penalty" system.

is 100% LAME.

I think what you will see, is the following.

- More "Bound Items". People locking up items they don't want broken.

I am sure some will, most who know the value of something won't. AH will cotinue as most of the stuff on it, is being offered by people who aren't goingt o use it anyway, if they were why is it on the AH
- Less trading/auction house action on high end items due to items being bound.
see above
- More people seeking loopholes that require as little risk as possible. This includes exploiting.
ie: more 'hero tactics'. See Velah elite strats for reference.
why would it stop most of the people doing hero tactics, have cash to burn, and if this game has proved anything any tactic that becomes unusable, quickly gets replaced with anew better one
- another increase in monetary/easy loot runs.
what else do you do at cap
- And a complete VOID of activity on anything remotely difficult. (See the Abbot)
To be honest I will probably head back there now

People don't mind racking up XP debt, That's PnP backbone rules there anyway.
But breaking every item equipped. And forcing them to repair is attacking their wallets.
And players don't like that.
let me rephrase that "Some" people don't mind racking up XP debt, I am one of those peopel, and I like the old system too, but unlike you I have realized that eventually it will break as well as get higher in level, and at one point we would all be screaming that the death penalty is too high like we did when mod 3 came out
It's Especially lame if you die from something like PK. How did PK (an Illusion) Break ALL of my gear?
When I tried to rip it off your corpse
Or energy drain attacks? Your saying that the ghost, (who bypasses armor) Broke my armor when he killed me?

Are you serious?

Imho this item damage method is a BAD system for death punishment.
You already have item damage in game for wear and tear. There's no reason to ramp it up any more.
I already repair enough as is with item Defense 2, and Few deaths.
that last 3 wprds spells it out, basically how often will you even care about the change
The Solution you want is there and proven. XP Loss.
It's never been enough. It's always been so small that one quest could bring it all back from multiple deaths.
It has also been proven to be troublesome if set to high, and when is it going to be too high, well lvl 19 would have been 9k xp per death
And secondly NEW content. More content means more reasons to level up.
yes and what do you do 2 weeks later when you are capped again as many of us will be
When the leveling up stops, XP becomes less a factor.
and death becomes meaningless
Raise the level caps and XP becomes more important.
you know as well as I do that we will evel up chars faster than they will ever be able to up the level cap

Method of Resurrection should likewise impact the XP loss as well as Debuff status.
Raise Dead should have a major debuff. Resurrection a Minor one. And True Resurrection Should Not.
I agree on this one
Anyway, it's a shame that lack of content, and challenge have shifted the goal from slowing ones progress to attacking ones wallet.[/QUOTE]


Mod 6 will tell the tail. Mod 7 should bring in in quest repair using the repair skill, this was suggested by myself and others, and Eldarin thought the idea was good

[Hendrik]

I've run WW about 6 times with my primary, 4 each with my 3 other toons, that 18 times total, I have only ever seen 1, ONE pair of FF boots and my primary has those.

So buy a pair of the AH.

Problem solved.

[Souless]

Ok....IF there is no chance of perma-damage from death.....I applaud the Dev's and will breathe a heavy sigh with the rest of the melee toons out there...AND I will stand in line to thank you guys for the change.

I am, however, afraid that the *calculation* will have errors in it.

With that said, adding new stuff to bound items is a great way to proactivly have me bind some gear and not penalize me for not binding gear...

Again, I find myself in the awkward position of thanking the dev's.....could this be a new day for the Bytcher?!?!?

Souless 10/2/2 ftr/rng/rog
Xbow 10/2/2 ftr/rng/rog
Spectyr 13/1 rng/rog
Tazzor 14 sorc
Valice 13/1 clr/ftr
Vampir 7 sorc

[MysticTheurge]

Destroy them then hit the AH and buy a new pair for a few hundred plat.

Save the next pair you find during your adventures to replace the trashed ones.

Ask a guildie for a pair.

Save the trashed pair in hopes of perm dam repair in future.

Four solutions that do not require coding to unbind a player bound item.

Also:

Ask a nearby mage to cast feather fall.

Find the long way down (there's always a way down that doesn't require feather fall).

[Mercules]

I've run WW about 6 times with my primary, 4 each with my 3 other toons, that 18 times total, I have only ever seen 1, ONE pair of FF boots and my primary has those.

I run WWs about 2-3 times. Normal and Elite, sometimes Hard, same with STK. I have pulled numerous bound Mithral shields and FF items, even a +9 skill ML 7 item.

However... FF items can be bought off the BROKER in the tent. I see them all the time and people also place them on the AH. So if you don't have said object, you might want to look closer.

In addition I have had very few items take that much damage. My in game experience tends to be that those who complain about non-weapons being damaged a lot or all the time tend to take a lot of DD magic and/or jump through traps. Traps will mess things up very quickly.

[Emili]

Thats nice, funny thing is, none of my other toons have any FF items yet and teh ones my primary toon has are still at a min, 2 lvls higher than they currently are.

If you were on Khyber I'd send some for all your toons... I can't recall how many FF rings and Boots are in my bank but think about 10 or so... by level 9 you'll run accross many of them, by level 14 they're considered trivial. The hard things to find in the game are perfect weapons, armour and straight +6 stat items(outside of raid loot).

[Emili]

Also:

Ask a nearby mage to cast feather fall.

Find the long way down (there's always a way down that doesn't require feather fall).

Actually most people do not realize the value of the tumble skill... I cannot recall how many times I climbed up on the wall above WW so I could jump off wo FF and see no to little damage on a toon. The floors falling out in Wiz-King mini-bosses, I've often forgot to equip FF there and only take 30 hp damages at most... usually it's less then 20. Then there is reaver - the quest where tumble really counts.

[Riot]

Call me silly, But I liked the old EQ method of Corpse runs.
That put the fear of death in you for sure.

However, it was a challenge. And that's the point isn't it? Making this game challenging?

How does breaking all your gear from drowning make this game a challenge?
it doesn't, it makes it stupid.

Death penalties should at least make sense, or be rooted in the tradition of the game.

[SpanishBlueEyes]

I am sorry to seem kinda like a grouch here but i have played on the risia server trying out the new mod and i don't personally like the death pentalty. I feel a capped character is going to be losing xp anyway and once you have been capped for a while your game play changes. I personally at this momment don't care how many times i die and as a capped toon i do die for my party alot. The way this new system is set up capped toons are either going to have to run naked during adventuring runs on new quests or be happy with the equipment they have and bind it to themselves. I have a very expensive repaid bill atm with my lvl 14 capped barb because i go into quests and die very often to try new things out. I feel this will be hurting the ones who just are trying to do something new and seeing what kills ya and what doesn't. I don't want to bind every one of my backpack full of greataxes and my armor (that isn't all that uber). I don't know what caused this dragstic change in the death pen, but i just wanted to add i don't like it and please reconsider.

[Pellegro]

I honestly haven't read all 14 pages of this thread, but I have a quick question.

It seems to me that the "on death" damage, which is now 100% repairable, is kind of not going to really do much.

If death causes some % damage to all equipped items, and the MAX % is 10%, then by definition, the item does not become unusable until you die 10 times. (And in fact it will be more than 10 since the % seems to start below 10 and works up cumulatively as you die more.)

So it seems that this particular "death penalty" really doesn't do anything to deter the in-game tactic of dying - at least up to 10 times.

Anyway, are there quests where people are dying 10 times and still continuing?

In fairness, there is still the cost to repair, but if this is just a death-tax, couldn't there be a better way to do it? (E.g. You have to carry a component to be raised that costs a bunch of $$$?)

Perhaps there are other side-effects of having partial damage? Does it, for example, accelerate the rate at which your item takes normal damage?

If the point is to stop people from using death as a tactic, then I think the 10% is actually too light. Especially since post-quest, you can fix it all up to 100%.

Of course, the idea of a risk of permadamage sounded good to me .....

[Pellegro]

However, it was a challenge. And that's the point isn't it? Making this game challenging?

For some, yes. For many others, no. MMOs in general, and DDO is no exception, have a fairly large number of folks who play not for challenge, but just to socialize, zone out, forget about life, etc. For those types, "challenge" = stress, and it is not conducive to their gaming experience.

Just my unsolicited 2 cents ... =)

[Laith]

In fairness, there is still the cost to repair, but if this is just a death-tax, couldn't there be a better way to do it? (E.g. You have to carry a component to be raised that costs a bunch of $$$?)

XP debt was a time-based death tax that was based on level.

the new-new penalty is a gamemoney-based death tax that not only scales on level, but on the value of your equipment.

basically, the lvl2 twinked-to-Kythri character pays more per death than the lvl2 "normal" character.

You pay more per death if you're equipped in a way that should PREVENT your death. Also, as you noted: your items start breaking (temporarily) after ~10 deaths in a quest. This causes SIGNIFICANT difficulties in quest completion at this point (aside from massive temporary negative levels).

[Emili]

You're absolutely right, no power gamer here! I only play 12-15 hours a week. I figure that that there will always be new and better stuff to find no matter how much I tear up the stuff that seems so interesting now.

Dang by the time anything get's posted in this thread it's pages behind where it was!

Aye, was just teasing Just wanted to point out that item damage does retire items eventually. In fact I recently retired a +1 ghosttouch light mace of pure good (lvl 4) ... it was one of Emili's first really nice weapons from when the game was released... It was passed onto Rosewood who had it for the longest of time and then eventually made it into the hands of near every girl after that as they leveled up to lvl 4. It served it's purpose in deleras many many times... I eventually sold it to the general vendor as the lvl 4 item vendor in house D would no longer offer to buy it due to how damaged it was was down to maybe 10% of total duability left.

My personal opinion is that it seems when an item hits 60% durability it's most likely best to sell it off as it will be damaged and take perm damage each and every time you take any item damages after that point.

[Mercules]

Actually most people do not realize the value of the tumble skill... I cannot recall how many times I climbed up on the wall above WW so I could jump off wo FF and see no to little damage on a toon. The floors falling out in Wiz-King mini-bosses, I've often forgot to equip FF there and only take 30 hp damages at most... usually it's less then 20. Then there is reaver - the quest where tumble really counts.

I LOVE Tumble on my Rogue.

People say, "Don't forget to equip your FF item." and I click my tumble clicky boots(also 20% movement speed) and just fling myself off the edge. "Oh no he is going to..." 1 HP damage. "Oh..." then I say, "I beat you all down." You can survive a fairly long fall with a 30 tumble skill.

[Eladrin]

I don't want to bind every one of my backpack full of greataxes and my armor (that isn't all that uber).

There's no need for you. With the current proposal, your unbound greataxes will be receiving exactly the same rate of permanent damage that they did before the change. Any wear they take from death doesn't count for permanent damage calculations.

I am, however, afraid that the *calculation* will have errors in it.

Luckily, it's very easy to test. If you wear an item to 0% through repeated no-damage deaths (like /death), when you repair it won't take permanent durability damage, where it would have had a 100% chance if you beat it to 0% on slimes.

the new-new penalty is a gamemoney-based death tax that not only scales on level, but on the value of your equipment.

basically, the lvl2 twinked-to-Kythri character pays more per death than the lvl2 "normal" character.

That's one of the nice things about using equipment as the gauge - it scales well to playstyle as well as level. If we simply charged you (arbitrary gold amount), that might be trivial to one character while crippling to another.

[Riot]

Riott's top 10.

10 Reasons you Repairman is going insane. (and subsequently why this system is BAD)

10 ) Repairing your bow from an Inflict Serious Wound Death.
9 ) Mending your belt from Finger of Death. (only living matter right?)
8 ) Repairing your gauntlets from a magic missile death. (always strike true eh?)
7 ) Repairing your Great Axe, from your Poisoned Con Loss Death.
6 ) Repairing your Muckbane after dieing from an ooze attack. (supposed to be immune right?)
5 ) Mending you cloak from the Phantasmal Force Accident.
4 ) Repairing your sword from your negative energy death.
3 ) Repairing you armor from the beating you took by a ghost.
2 ) Repairing your sheild from drowning.

and finally,

1 ) Repairing you boots because you got Vorpaled.

[Wulf_Ratbane]

1 ) Repairing you boots because you got Vorpaled.

I'm thinking arterial spray, here.

Nothing a little Febreeze can't handle.

[Invalid_86]

So 14 pages later they are still sticking to the "oops I died and all of my gear got mysteriously damaged" nonsense? Seriously? This idea should have been discarded long ago.