Updated Death Penalty and Permanent Item Damage Changes

[xman26]

Except you seem to be the only person pushing for the "unbinding" of items.

Unbinding an item doesn't really make sense. I can understand why you want it, but it gives you benefits without the cost (i.e. the cost is being unable to transfer the item to other characters).

You don't have to bind anything, you just run the risk of getting perm damage (exactly like you did before). You can completely ignore the addition of binding items and your game play will not change at all.

You can say the change to the death penalty impacts it, but since that item damage cannot cause any perm damage, it doesn't. Binding the items has 0 impact on what happens to an item when you die.

I'm just trying to understand why it is such a big deal to add an optional aspect to the game, that will have 0 impact on how you play.

As I fit teh casual gamer role as I play maybe 8-12 hours a week and thats only on friday and saturday nights. Being able to unbind something from my main character to pass it along to my lower tons would be a plus as I DO NOT game enough to get the good loot. I have had to buy everything of uber I currently have. So being able to bind it to protect is nice and then having the ability to unbind to I can give it up to my lower toons because I either AH'd or was for my first time lucky enough to get an uber for my primary toon, be able to pass down that old one to my low toons. I have been playing since last November. I have 1 capped toon and 3 alts I work on and they currently sit at 4,5 and 5 for levels. So for me, the casual gamer, the ability to save the uber equipment and then be able to pass it off to my other toons because I was finially lucky enough to get my hands on something a bit more uber would be a great thing. At the rate I get perm damage vs the rate of which I'm able to either purchase(my pp were not earned) an item or get from loot(hasn't happened yet) my uber items wont have much of any durablity left to pass it off to my lower toons. And I'm not sure about you or others, but I have a primary toon I play with almost all the time, and others I work on when nothing much is going on within my guild. I hate pugs, I die more freqently and the new system will just add to my headaches.

[Riot]

Well, after much consideration, it's in my opinion that this new "death penalty" system.

is 100% LAME.

I think what you will see, is the following.

- More "Bound Items". People locking up items they don't want broken.
- Less trading/auction house action on high end items due to items being bound.
- More people seeking loopholes that require as little risk as possible. This includes exploiting.
ie: more 'hero tactics'. See Velah elite strats for reference.
- another increase in monetary/easy loot runs.
- And a complete VOID of activity on anything remotely difficult. (See the Abbot)

People don't mind racking up XP debt, That's PnP backbone rules there anyway.
But breaking every item equipped. And forcing them to repair is attacking their wallets.
And players don't like that.

It's Especially lame if you die from something like PK. How did PK (an Illusion) Break ALL of my gear?
Or energy drain attacks? Your saying that the ghost, (who bypasses armor) Broke my armor when he killed me?

Are you serious?

Imho this item damage method is a BAD system for death punishment.
You already have item damage in game for wear and tear. There's no reason to ramp it up any more.
I already repair enough as is with item Defense 2, and Few deaths.

The Solution you want is there and proven. XP Loss.
It's never been enough. It's always been so small that one quest could bring it all back from multiple deaths.
And secondly NEW content. More content means more reasons to level up.
When the leveling up stops, XP becomes less a factor.
Raise the level caps and XP becomes more important.

Method of Resurrection should likewise impact the XP loss as well as Debuff status.
Raise Dead should have a major debuff. Resurrection a Minor one. And True Resurrection Should Not.

Anyway, it's a shame that lack of content, and challenge have shifted the goal from slowing ones progress to attacking ones wallet.

[xman26]

I don't understand where you're coming from. Item damage has been scaled back from what it was and the chance for permanent item damage has been removed from item damage accrued from death. My most damaged item is a +1 greataxe of greater undead bane that I've had for over a year and it's been used several times among several different characters. It's still got 35% blue bar and I've since pulled several other greater undead bane items.

To put it simply, the need to bind items to prevent permanent damage has been mostly rendered unnecessary. Now the only real reason to do it is to attune your items (Arkenpliers FTW!) to a character for eldritch rituals or to protect low durability items that you really don't want to lose. You're saying it's not fair that you can't pass down those eldritch items to lowbie alts? Think of those items as raid loot, because that's basically the direction raid loot seems to be going in MOD6.

If someone, including me, were to enchance an item in game, then I can agree it should not be able to be unbound and have to stay with the toon with whic the enhancement was made with. But, if an item was bound to protect from being lost forever, is never enhanced and you get something better for that toon, wouldn't you like to be able to pass that item along to one of your other toons that could use it NOW and not LATER because you had to give him the newer better item that is 3,4,5,10 levels above where he is?

[Laith]

seeing as this damage can no longer cause permanent damage, i really don't see people going out of their way to bind their items. It's business as usual except that instead of XP debt (that a portion of the playerbase IGNORES), we get financial debt (which scales with our wealth and ability to avoid death due to equipment).

heck, with the same odds of damage (as announced), i'll probably only bind items i want to use the eldrich rituals on.

[jjflanigan]

Well, after much consideration, it's in my opinion that this new "death penalty" system.

is 100% LAME.

I think what you will see, is the following.

- More "Bound Items". People locking up items they don't want broken.
- Less trading/auction house action on high end items due to items being bound.
- More people seeking loopholes that require as little risk as possible. This includes exploiting.
ie: more 'hero tactics'. See Velah elite strats for reference.
- another increase in monetary/easy loot runs.
- And a complete VOID of activity on anything remotely difficult. (See the Abbot)

People don't mind racking up XP debt, That's PnP backbone rules there anyway.
But breaking every item equipped. And forcing them to repair is attacking their wallets.
And players don't like that.

It's Especially lame if you die from something like PK. How did PK (an Illusion) Break ALL of my gear?
Or energy drain attacks? Your saying that the ghost, (who bypasses armor) Broke my armor when he killed me?

Are you serious?

Imho this item damage method is a BAD system for death punishment.
You already have item damage in game for wear and tear. There's no reason to ramp it up any more.
I already repair enough as is with item Defense 2, and Few deaths.

The Solution you want is there and proven. XP Loss.
It's never been enough. It's always been so small that one quest could bring it all back from multiple deaths.
And secondly NEW content. More content means more reasons to level up.
When the leveling up stops, XP becomes less a factor.
Raise the level caps and XP becomes more important.

Method of Resurrection should likewise impact the XP loss as well as Debuff status.
Raise Dead should have a major debuff. Resurrection a Minor one. And True Resurrection Should Not.

Anyway, it's a shame that lack of content, and challenge have shifted the goal from slowing ones progress to attacking ones wallet.

All of that is well and good, except an XP penalty has 0 impact on a large portion of the playerbase. Capped players have NO death penalty when it is XP based.

[smatt]

Yes, tactics do reduce the death rate. But casters have a much lower margin of error than non-casters due to their lower HP, lower Reflex saves, lower fortitude saves, and lower AC. For instance, I ran Inferno of the Damned the other night, and most of the people died 0-1 times. Our poor sorc died so much that he barely got any XP. He was just one-shotted too many times. If we weren't using tactics properly, I think that there would have been a lot more deaths.

This is why it is important to realize that casters will be paying a much higher price for repairing due to the death tax than their non-caster counterparts. Yes, non-casters die too. Yes good tactics reduce deaths. All things being equal though, caster still die more often. They have for a long time been subject to a much slower level progression, but now their already expensive career choice is going to get even more so.

Hmm, so there could possibly be a trade off for the complete over-poweringof casters ...... In the near future I predict casters being brought back down off their high horse....

Careful, well played casters will be jsut fine, zergfest kill everything in sight casters will have a fewmore problems to contend with....

[GrayOldDruid]

Edited : Nevermind.... people still complaining about the no-xp-debt system just confound me... XP debt sucked.

[Ciaran]

If someone, including me, were to enchance an item in game, then I can agree it should not be able to be unbound and have to stay with the toon with whic the enhancement was made with. But, if an item was bound to protect from being lost forever, is never enhanced and you get something better for that toon, wouldn't you like to be able to pass that item along to one of your other toons that could use it NOW and not LATER because you had to give him the newer better item that is 3,4,5,10 levels above where he is?

Of course, and with this new system, as I said, item damage is pretty much the same as it is now - there's really no reason to bind items to protect them from permanent damage anymore unless the item is very old and has been used a lot and suffered a lot of permanent damage. If you repair your gear frequently without it getting damaged too much, this shouldn't be prevalent.

Otherwise, being that items don't take permanent damage on death, there isn't much a reason to bind them, so therefore you still have them to pass on, much like it is currently.

Am I missing something?

[xman26]

Yep, that's what I would like to know as well. If you have a OPTION to bind items, and you personally think that that idea totally sucks and would ruin your gameplay...why can't you just NOT optionally bind anything? Nothing would change for you. Unbound items could still take damage, like they do now, you could transfer them to whomever, like you do now, etc. I guess I do not see the problem with choices and options so various players can "customize" their gameplay more than they could before. If the Devs decided to just say "Screw it, all items bind, and can never be transferred ever", well, I would agree with you that that is a bad decision and it hoses players' choices in how they choose to play. But, since that is not the case....well, what's the problem?

Trelessia
14 Cleric
Trelanis

I currently have a pair of plain jane FF boots that were bound when I got them at lvl2. Durability was a 10 on them, they currrentl have 3 points left because of perm damage. Say they were unbound when you got them. You obviously want to keep them around as you dont know when you come across another pair so you bind them. 7 levels later, you come across a pair of ML9 FF of Jump +5. Hey these are great, I can keep these and their durability is a 70. But ****, what do I do with my lvl2 FF boots I bound, my other toons are still to low to use these new ones. Man wish I could undo my original bind on these boots because my fighter lvl4 shure as hell could use them.

[jjflanigan]

I currently have a pair of plain jane FF boots that were bound when I got them at lvl2. Durability was a 10 on them, they currrentl have 3 points left because of perm damage. Say they were unbound when you got them. You obviously want to keep them around as you dont know when you come across another pair so you bind them. 7 levels later, you come across a pair of ML9 FF of Jump +5. Hey these are great, I can keep these and their durability is a 70. But ****, what do I do with my lvl2 FF boots I bound, my other toons are still to low to use these new ones. Man wish I could undo my original bind on these boots because my fighter lvl4 shure as hell could use them.

It would be impossible to get those boots if they hadn't been bound when you picked them up.

[Zidian_Elorz]

Thanks for the post and update, nice to know you guys really listen

[xman26]

The death penalty WAS most certainly broken

No it certainly most was not broken.

[smatt]

Eladrin has pointed out what the issues have been in regards to what was broken... and why they need to be fixed for the good of the game economy.



I would rather have them take care of issues that make the game more enjoyable for everyone... sometime that means I have to take the stick for someone else's gaming experience to be bettered. sometimes we get a boon to our toons even if "we" griped about it (enhancements), there have been some fixes that everyone was complaining about that have been wonderful. as for things that the royal "WE" don't want fixed, sometimes the nobility ("We" long time players) don't have a clue what they have planned. it's their game and can change it for good or ill.




Bottom line is that they listen to rational debate and play/player issues, and adjust what needs to be moved to keep the game in balance. Listening to reasonable requests and interacting with the community is part of their business, and I applaud them for being very proactive and interactive in the past month and a half.




I hate to tell you your not being bent over on this... If you feel that this is a "sacrifice" for a game you find no longer enjoyable, be the martyr... but its not much of a "Sacrifice". I personally have a great time with this game and hope to for some time longer, when it becomes a grind to login and "play" and I'm wondering why I'm doing it, it will be time for me to take a break or leave. Espousing hatred, and vitriol to a team of developers that have provided you with a product that you keep paying to play is asinine . I would encourage you to fill out your exit survey so that they may evaluate your opinions.

/signed

[Ciaran]

It would be impossible to get those boots if they hadn't been bound when you picked them up.

Not necessarily - the Ring of Feathers doesn't bind and comes from the end chest in STK. You can also get RR level 2 FF boots.

[Vorn]

I don't really think gear that is temp-damaged by inquest character death (and won't be permanently damaged as a result) has or need have anything to do with how a character dies. It like, the the death effect debuff, is a penalty for dying. On inquest character death we get the debuff and a monetary penalty (for repairs which will not cause perm damage) and a, if I die enough that I'd be nekked, temporary gear penalty. Having the gear damaged by how one dies might be fun from an rpg standpoint, but otherwise, it's just part of the cost of dying, chalk it up to overhead.

I also like the choice provided to bind gear and even bind/attune it if I want to make it better through some eldritch wizardry. I much prefer having the choice to having it be bind on equip or worse yet bind on acquire. I think the only item I have that is really, really beat up is one of the very first vorpal longswords pulled on our server (ahh, the nostalgia of CO6 elite). It is down to 92 durability.

[Emili]

By your definition, I'm a casual gamer and I had 0, zip, zilch, nada problem with the xp debt system or with the fact it took me 10 months to reach 14th and cap out, hell I've only sparingly play my 3 new alt toons and have no issues if it take me another 10 months to cap them out under the xp debt system.

I totally agree... back at the level 10 cap I could cap out in 3 days... now if I wanted to cap a toon it would take a week. Power gamers know which quests produce XP verses time and farm them if the wish, It is no different than loot farming. It comes down to goals really. XP is easy in this game... even at lower levels the xp debt system was a minor deterent.

Xp debt at capped has the same meaning to me as XP debt at every level... XP is easy at every level - is no difference. The real difference between a Power Gamer and a Casual player is game knowledge.

[GeneralDiomedes]

Man wish I could undo my original bind on these boots because my fighter lvl4 shure as hell could use them.

We get that you like to twink everything, ok? However, is twinking good for the game? I think some twinking is fine it can be fun searching for items for your alt. Excessive twinking, however, turns off people new to the game. It really does. Some loot will be wasted, and you will just have to deal with that.

[Laith]

Not necessarily - the Ring of Feathers doesn't bind and comes from the end chest in STK. You can also get RR level 2 FF boots.

if you get such an item, you should keep trading it between lowbies.

don't bind it, that's just silly.
This death penalty change no longer has any effect on how perm. damage occurs. As far as perm damage is concerned, nothing has changed whatsoever.

[Lorien_the_First_One]

It would be impossible to get those boots if they hadn't been bound when you picked them up.

He gave a poor example but his point is valid. Let's say they were the ordinary ML5 FF boots and then you found M13 FF boots of superuberness +50. The ML5 books, if bound, are now worthless and that seems like a waste. That is the point I think he was trying to make.

But here's the thing...you don't have to bind them. With the end to perm damage from death effect we now are back to the same old damage system and it takes a lot to kill an unbound item. If you really want you can bind in the new system, but if you don't, you are no worse of than you are now. Seems reasonable to me.

And if a bound item goes to waste, yes, that is a shame. Each of my chars has an item or two that is bound and in their bank because I can't deal with just vendoring a good item (silly eh? ). Once again though, we are no worse off in the new system than in the current one.

[LordFancyPants]

Say they were unbound when you got them. You obviously want to keep them around as you dont know when you come across another pair so you bind them.

This right here is the hangup. I, personally, wouldn't bind an item as soon as I pulled it, because, like you said, you might come across another pair.

I probably wouldn't bind them until they got to 40 or 50% durability left.

To follow your example, I would do one of two things with those boots. 1) Bid them and accept that they are now the forever property of that toon, or 2) Mail them off and save my pennies to buy another pair.


Now, I understand that FF boots are easier to buy than say a vorpal, but you still have choices. In any case, you don't need to bind ANYTHING the second you get it. I would wait until it has taken enough perm damage for me to be concerned about breaking it for good. But that's just me.