Updated Death Penalty and Permanent Item Damage Changes

[xman26]

It would be impossible to get those boots if they hadn't been bound when you picked them up.

You missed the point of my example completely which is why you have 0, zip, zilch, zero and nada understanding of why an unbinding system would be good.

[xman26]

Edited : Nevermind.... people still complaining about the no-xp-debt system just confound me... XP debt sucked.

Sorry, I disagree and thought the system was perfectly fine.

[ENGRAV0]

I find this much more tolerable, and am glad to see the change. Kinda wish that something that doesn't impact the revelation of new quest content itself would have been released to the community much more earlier. Don't see a reason that this should be sent to us so close to the release.

Dev's, it seems you do indeed listen regardless of what a mass of posters comment, and for that, Thank You.

[Raithe]

While they may have two teams, they could also have one team with multiple duties. Either way, fixing old stuff does slow down new stuff. Why you say? Let's say I have the budget for 10 programmers. If I put all 1 on old stuff, that leaves me 9 for new. If I put 2 on old, 8 for new. So yes, fixing old stuff does slow down new stuff. Does't mean they shouldn't do it, but you are wrong to say that doing one doessn't impact another.

A little oversimplified. The "new" death penalty is actually a new game mechanic, it just happens to take the place of an old one. IMO, the "old one" didn't really exist, and it'll be interesting to see what, if any, changes occur to gameplay because a death penalty was instituted. I'm a little skeptical, however.

Which brings me to this:

The XP penalty did not work well for capped players <<ABBOT NOT WITHSTANDING>>, end of story.

As for the WOW comparison, I applaud their handling of death and binding now that I actually understand what it is. Believe me .. I was the LAST person I thought would say that. Their FAQ even goes so far as to say that without a death penalty .. gameplay has no meaning. I couldn't agree more.

We've been running for a long time without a substantive death penalty. Are you saying gameplay has been meaningless for that entire time? (...cause I would agree with you, but I don't think that's what you are trying to say...) I haven't read any post that really explains or makes clear what the purposes of a death "penalty" are, and how they improve the game. The real "penalties" for a party wipe in our current system was having to recall and re-enter the dungeon, along with people like myself awarding themselves a failure rating for the quest. For some quests, not having a valid strategy can mean death after death after death, and the penalty becomes actual real quest failure because there is no longer any more time. (And some quests have failure conditions other than death.)

I don't think the "new" death penalty is going to add much flavor to the game. I could be wrong.

EDIT: I guess if I were to attempt to make a flavorful death penalty, I would institute definite quest failure on a party wipe. Physical death is not an actuality in the realm of Dungeons & Dragons, and should only have penalties that make good roleplaying sense (and for a roleplaying reason I could get behind almost any game mechanic Turbine was willing to institute). A TPK in PnP D&D, however, generally involves coming up with a new set of characters and possibly a new campaign setting. In DDO it should at least mean taking the rest of the night off.

[Hendrik]

I currently have a pair of plain jane FF boots that were bound when I got them at lvl2. Durability was a 10 on them, they currrentl have 3 points left because of perm damage. Say they were unbound when you got them. You obviously want to keep them around as you dont know when you come across another pair so you bind them. 7 levels later, you come across a pair of ML9 FF of Jump +5. Hey these are great, I can keep these and their durability is a 70. But ****, what do I do with my lvl2 FF boots I bound, my other toons are still to low to use these new ones. Man wish I could undo my original bind on these boots because my fighter lvl4 shure as hell could use them.

Destroy them then hit the AH and buy a new pair for a few hundred plat.

Save the next pair you find during your adventures to replace the trashed ones.

Ask a guildie for a pair.

Save the trashed pair in hopes of perm dam repair in future.

Four solutions that do not require coding to unbind a player bound item.

[Mercules]

I currently have a pair of plain jane FF boots that were bound when I got them at lvl2. Durability was a 10 on them, they currrentl have 3 points left because of perm damage. Say they were unbound when you got them. You obviously want to keep them around as you dont know when you come across another pair so you bind them. 7 levels later, you come across a pair of ML9 FF of Jump +5. Hey these are great, I can keep these and their durability is a 70. But ****, what do I do with my lvl2 FF boots I bound, my other toons are still to low to use these new ones. Man wish I could undo my original bind on these boots because my fighter lvl4 shure as hell could use them.

Would you like the 100 plat it would cost you to buy unbound ML5 FF boots/ring off the AH?

How the heck did you get that much damage on BOOTS?

BTW, you can make 100 plat running the harbor quests on normal, I know this from Permadeath/untwink play. By the time you are level 4 you can usually make enough to buy an ok weapon, ok armor, and a few useful items from Brokers/AH. Oh, and Tumble pots are cheaper than a FF item and you get them for free from breaking barrels.

[ArkoHighStar]

I currently have a pair of plain jane FF boots that were bound when I got them at lvl2. Durability was a 10 on them, they currrentl have 3 points left because of perm damage. Say they were unbound when you got them. You obviously want to keep them around as you dont know when you come across another pair so you bind them. 7 levels later, you come across a pair of ML9 FF of Jump +5. Hey these are great, I can keep these and their durability is a 70. But ****, what do I do with my lvl2 FF boots I bound, my other toons are still to low to use these new ones. Man wish I could undo my original bind on these boots because my fighter lvl4 shure as hell could use them.

that argument holds no water as they were bound when you got them. Basically what you want is a system where you can avoid perm damage.With the exception of 1 item, the ring of feathers from STK, min level for a featherfall item is 5(I know I have 2 sets of boots)

Just keep stuff unbound like you do know, nothing changes with these items as wear and tear damage is the same.

[LordFancyPants]

No it certainly most was not broken.

According to the exit surveys, it was. Tons of casual gamers have left this game because they were frustrated that they spent their time re-earning XP that they lost when dieing, rather than earning enough XP to actually level.

Have I seen these exit surveys? No. Do I believe the Devs when they tell me these things? Yes I do.

So one more time for the cheap seats, enough people have left because of the XP debt to make the Devs want to change it. End of story.

I've never had a problem with the XP loss personally, but if the dev team says it is an issue for other players, then fix the system

[Emili]

I think the only item I have that is really, really beat up is one of the very first vorpal longswords pulled on our server (ahh, the nostalgia of CO6 elite). It is down to 92 durability.

LOL, you really do not play much Back before module 2 I believe I retired three retributions, a +4 con belt, a proof against poison belt, a reavers ring, a fragment of the silver flame and worst of all a +4 mith FP. I repair after each and every quest... I had used the item protection enhancements... makes not much difference. Items wear out eventually and is just by chance and the more you play the more chance it occurs.

[ArkoHighStar]

Sorry, I disagree and thought the system was perfectly fine.

xman it was fine for you, you have 1 character it looks like capped in both xp and close in favor, right now you have no penalty for death, and all you have to worry about is being debt free when the new mod goes live do you can get your 1 xp and level.

[xman26]

if you get such an item, you should keep trading it between lowbies.

don't bind it, that's just silly.
This death penalty change no longer has any effect on how perm. damage occurs. As far as perm damage is concerned, nothing has changed whatsoever.

Ok, so you would willing take the chance that your lvl2 FF item with a durability of 10, thats TEN people, will hang around long enough for you to find another pair? Or if they got to where mine currently are 3, THREE, durability, you bind them then come across another pair several levels later at say 9,10 or 11 or whatver. Now you have this better, more durable pair of FF boots, but its like 5 lvl higher than you highest next toon, you wouldn't want to be able to hand off your old pair to your other toons? I'm sure you would, but they are bound, nope sorry can't and your lvl5 fighter can't use those nice lvl11 FF boots yet and he currently has none. ohwell, hopefully people I pug with have a clicky or have the spell ready for those long drops or its gonna hurt when i hit bottom.

[xman26]

xman it was fine for you, you have 1 character it looks like capped in both xp and close in favor, right now you have no penalty for death, and all you have to worry about is being debt free when the new mod goes live do you can get your 1 xp and level.

Actually, I'm currently 20k in the hole and hope to work that off this weekend while trying to get my last sigil piece, but then again, I might die 6 more times trying to get it.

[Laith]

Ok, so you would willing take the chance that your lvl2 FF item with a durability of 10, thats TEN people, will hang around long enough for you to find another pair?

remember how items are supposed to leave circulation after a long period of time? This item qualifies.

Under the CURRENT situation, such an item would be destined to be destroyed very shortly.

The new system allows such an item to live on though. it's life in circulation is nigh over, but wait!!! it's still a valid bound item!

if i happened to have an item that was in that situation, i'd bind it and use the Adamantine Ritual (outlined earlier) to increase it's durability/hardness to a value worth using again.

This is very likely what will happen to a ring of feathers (should i get one): be traded among lowbies for a really long time until durability gets low, then bound onto whatever character needs it, and rituals performed to make it sturdy again.
Basically, thru that process: it has served it's low-level requirement purpose for quite some time, and is now a functional bound item, maybe even stronger than it was originally.

[Ciaran]

I personally have a great time with this game and hope to for some time longer, when it becomes a grind to login and "play" and I'm wondering why I'm doing it, it will be time for me to take a break or leave.

I found myself losing sight of the fact that there's so much I'm really looking forward to about MOD6, so much so I rolled up a ranger specifically for the purpse of taking the Arcane Archer enhancements. I'm glad they made the changes to the proposed system that they did, it will make it easier to swallow, but had they not, I suspect that I at least would've adapted to the changes in order to experience the new content.

[xman26]

that argument holds no water as they were bound when you got them. Basically what you want is a system where you can avoid perm damage.With the exception of 1 item, the ring of feathers from STK, min level for a featherfall item is 5(I know I have 2 sets of boots)

Just keep stuff unbound like you do know, nothing changes with these items as wear and tear damage is the same.

Yet, someone else who totally missed the point of my post. By all means, dont bind that 10, TEN durabilty nice item that is good like FF and hope like hell it is still arond when you find soemthing better so you can pass it along to another toon.

[Hendrik]

Ok, so you would willing take the chance that your lvl2 FF item with a durability of 10, thats TEN people, will hang around long enough for you to find another pair? Or if they got to where mine currently are 3, THREE, durability, you bind them then come across another pair several levels later at say 9,10 or 11 or whatver. Now you have this better, more durable pair of FF boots, but its like 5 lvl higher than you highest next toon, you wouldn't want to be able to hand off your old pair to your other toons? I'm sure you would, but they are bound, nope sorry can't and your lvl5 fighter can't use those nice lvl11 FF boots yet and he currently has none. ohwell, hopefully people I pug with have a clicky or have the spell ready for those long drops or its gonna hurt when i hit bottom.

LOL.

In all the seconds it would take find find another, sure.

Can always get one yourself and in the meantime, hope you carry pots to heal up when you hit the floor.

[Ciaran]

if you get such an item, you should keep trading it between lowbies.

don't bind it, that's just silly.
This death penalty change no longer has any effect on how perm. damage occurs. As far as perm damage is concerned, nothing has changed whatsoever.

Oh I don't disagree - I was just pointing out that it is possible to get those items without them being bound end rewards, that's all.

[Mercules]

Ok, so you would willing take the chance that your lvl2 FF item with a durability of 10, thats TEN people, will hang around long enough for you to find another pair? Or if they got to where mine currently are 3, THREE, durability, you bind them then come across another pair several levels later at say 9,10 or 11 or whatver. Now you have this better, more durable pair of FF boots, but its like 5 lvl higher than you highest next toon, you wouldn't want to be able to hand off your old pair to your other toons? I'm sure you would, but they are bound, nope sorry can't and your lvl5 fighter can't use those nice lvl11 FF boots yet and he currently has none. ohwell, hopefully people I pug with have a clicky or have the spell ready for those long drops or its gonna hurt when i hit bottom.

Again... 100 plat will get you a ML 5 one from the AH.

Bound items are bound because they offer better bonuses, or are usable at a lower level than something with equivalent enchantments. They are super twink gear if they were trade able, thus you can't trade them. The Ring of Feathers is harder to find than getting FF ML2 boots from WW or STK.

[xman26]

remember how items are supposed to leave circulation after a long period of time?

this item qualifies.

you didn't bind it, so it's life is nigh over. if you bound it, it's immortality is tied to that of the character holding it.

if i happened to have an item that was in that situation, i'd bind it and use the Adamantine Ritual (outlined earlier) to increase it's durability/hardness to a value worth using again.

Thats nice, funny thing is, none of my other toons have any FF items yet and teh ones my primary toon has are still at a min, 2 lvls higher than they currently are.

[Vorn]

LOL, you really do not play much Back before module 2 I believe I retired three retributions, a +4 con belt, a proof against poison belt, a reavers ring, a fragment of the silver flame and worst of all a +4 mith FP. I repair after each and every quest... I had used the item protection enhancements... makes not much difference. Items wear out eventually and is just by chance and the more you play the more chance it occurs.

You're absolutely right, no power gamer here! I only play 12-15 hours a week. I figure that that there will always be new and better stuff to find no matter how much I tear up the stuff that seems so interesting now.

Dang by the time anything get's posted in this thread it's pages behind where it was!