Updated Death Penalty and Permanent Item Damage Changes

[ghale]

Call me silly, But I liked the old EQ method of Corpse runs.
That put the fear of death in you for sure.

However, it was a challenge. And that's the point isn't it? Making this game challenging?

How does breaking all your gear from drowning make this game a challenge?
it doesn't, it makes it stupid.

Death penalties should at least make sense, or be rooted in the tradition of the game.

That's what I've been saying!

[Gratch]

So 14 pages later they are still sticking to the "oops I died and all of my gear got mysteriously damaged" nonsense? Seriously? This idea should have been discarded long ago.

You're using "seriously" in a fantasy pen and paper game. You think using "serious physical laws" that most of your equipment shouldn't be destroyed much much faster than currently? Five giants just killed you and walked over your equipment... I'm sure nothing's bent. A warforged Titan just hit you with spinning laser blades causing forty kobold servant trying to pick up the pieces of the charisma cloak for 3 days... let's hope there's a good seamstress around.

So now you're going to tell me how it's magical equipment. Some form of fantastic materials that don't succumb to physical laws and instead use fantastic laws. If you're buying into that, then you can buy into your equipment getting trashed to a certain amount whenever the body inside it ceases to be. Whether the devs decide to code "fireball death equals damage to all equipment, but vorpal death just means your necklace is 100% damaged with a high chance of armor damage" vs. "all your items take a small amount of damage" is their choice.

[Invalid_86]

You're using "seriously" in a fantasy pen and paper game. You think using "serious physical laws" that most of your equipment shouldn't be destroyed much much faster than currently? Five giants just killed you and walked over your equipment... I'm sure nothing's bent. A warforged Titan just hit you with spinning laser blades causing forty kobold servant trying to pick up the pieces of the charisma cloak for 3 days... let's hope there's a good seamstress around.

So now you're going to tell me how it's magical equipment. Some form of fantastic materials that don't succumb to physical laws and instead use fantastic laws. If you're buying into that, then you can buy into your equipment getting trashed to a certain amount whenever the body inside it ceases to be. Whether the devs decide to code "fireball death equals damage to all equipment, but vorpal death just means your necklace is 100% damaged with a high chance of armor damage" vs. "all your items take a small amount of damage" is their choice.

Item wear and tear is one thing. Arbitrarily dumping damage on everything is another.

[Mercules]

Item wear and tear is one thing. Arbitrarily dumping damage on everything is another.

So is standing in a corner idle while the rest of the party does a quest and gaining "experience" which makes me more practiced at my skills, when I did nothing. This can happen in the game though.

[Riot]

So is standing in a corner idle while the rest of the party does a quest and gaining "experience" which makes me more practiced at my skills, when I did nothing.

It's called "project Management". =)

[Invalid_86]

So is standing in a corner idle while the rest of the party does a quest and gaining "experience" which makes me more practiced at my skills, when I did nothing. This can happen in the game though.

That's a bit of a stretch to justify this equipment damage system.

[MysticTheurge]

That's a bit of a stretch to justify this equipment damage system.

He's not using it to justify the new system, he's using it to point out that it's hardly the first thing about DDO, or heck even D&D, to "not make sense."

Logic and Gameplay and Balance like to do a little dance with each other and logic loses out more often than people want to admit.

[parvo]

...That's one of the nice things about using equipment as the gauge - it scales well to playstyle as well as level. If we simply charged you (arbitrary gold amount), that might be trivial to one character while crippling to another.

Heaven forbid someones character be crippled from dying. That wouldn't make sense...

[Warrax23]

I don't know, what I'd like to see if this gets implemented or rather when. Is that WE get a skill to fix our own gear, because I'm sick of blinding paying an NPC for something that IS important to me. I want my gear to be 100% non perm damaged, I throw all my skill points into the "fix your gear skill" because repair is just for WF'd... blah blah crafting, that's not what I'm talking about. I just trust MYSELF more then others. specially ones that aren't even real people. So without this feat/skill I think it's unjust to put something like EXTRA damage to all gear in, it may make sense but usually when ya die the lethal damage "usually" wouldn't cause more damage to EVERYTHING just to armor, cloak, helmet etc.. but that's really not the point I'm try'n to make which is without us having some control over the repairing I don't see this as a step in the right direction, though I'm not totally against it like I was before the updated.

[Yaga_Nub]

That's a bit of a stretch to justify this equipment damage system.

Not really. I've been in several pugs (heck even guild runs) where people have zoned in but then just don't do anything or even make it a little way into the dungeon and then mysteriously stop moving. As soon as the quest is finished though they are right there to get their chests. I hate not being able to kick people from groups while in a quest. Since they didn't kill even one thing in the quest should they get any xp at all?

[Gratch]

Item wear and tear is one thing. Arbitrarily dumping damage on everything is another.

It's not arbitrary... you took enough damage to die. Whether it was fantastical or physical means... your fantastical equipped items were in the same area during death. They're now travelling around equipped on you in the I'm-dead-plane. They cry a little everytime you die.

Makes as much or more sense to me then, you've now become less experienced when you die. I think Planescape Torment even gave experience when you died.

[MysticTheurge]

Heaven forbid someones character be crippled from dying. That wouldn't make sense...

What wouldn't make sense would be something that was crippling to one kind of character or player and negligible to another.

Which oddly enough, is exactly what Eladrin said.

[TiberiusofTyr]

Luckily, it's very easy to test. If you wear an item to 0% through repeated no-damage deaths (like /death), when you repair it won't take permanent durability damage, where it would have had a 100% chance if you beat it to 0% on slimes.

I did a /death on Risia a couple of days ago and took no equipment damage.

[Invalid_86]

It's not arbitrary... you took enough damage to die. Whether it was fantastical or physical means... your fantastical equipped items were in the same area during death. They're now travelling around equipped on you in the I'm-dead-plane. They cry a little everytime you die.
.

I think Riot said it best:

Riott's top 10.

10 Reasons you Repairman is going insane. (and subsequently why this system is BAD)

10 ) Repairing your bow from an Inflict Serious Wound Death.
9 ) Mending your belt from Finger of Death. (only living matter right?)
8 ) Repairing your gauntlets from a magic missile death. (always strike true eh?)
7 ) Repairing your Great Axe, from your Poisoned Con Loss Death.
6 ) Repairing your Muckbane after dieing from an ooze attack. (supposed to be immune right?)
5 ) Mending you cloak from the Phantasmal Force Accident.
4 ) Repairing your sword from your negative energy death.
3 ) Repairing you armor from the beating you took by a ghost.
2 ) Repairing your sheild from drowning.

and finally,

1 ) Repairing you boots because you got Vorpaled.

Not really. I've been in several pugs (heck even guild runs) where people have zoned in but then just don't do anything or even make it a little way into the dungeon and then mysteriously stop moving. As soon as the quest is finished though they are right there to get their chests. I hate not being able to kick people from groups while in a quest. Since they didn't kill even one thing in the quest should they get any xp at all?

That really is a seperate issue isn't it?
In an ideal world they would get less item damage but much less xp. We can't do anything about that, but we can do something about item damage.

[Vorn]

Not really. I've been in several pugs (heck even guild runs) where people have zoned in but then just don't do anything or even make it a little way into the dungeon and then mysteriously stop moving. As soon as the quest is finished though they are right there to get their chests. I hate not being able to kick people from groups while in a quest. Since they didn't kill even one thing in the quest should they get any xp at all?

Be a pal and help them earn their valuable treasure and xp, kite all the mobs back to them!

[Ustice]

In PnP, I would agree 100%. In DDO, Balance >> a 100% accurate model.

[Gratch]

I figure you could have it either way:

Turbines view is your body just got blasted to soul land and your magical equipment took some wear and tear going out with your wandering soul into the vapor that looks upon your soulstone. Take a rez and get back to adventuring (with a touch of -1 level).

Your view is that all your weapons and armor drop to the ground undamaged when you go soul body... well maybe the type of death damaged some of them...but not if it was the finger of death. Fine. Take a rez (with a touch of -1 level) and get to picking up all your junk off the ground and reslotting and re-equipping it. I'm sure people will wait. Really.

I choose Turbine's method... cuz it's a game and I don't want to pickup all that stuff OR wait for you to do it.

[xman26]

Would you like the 100 plat it would cost you to buy unbound ML5 FF boots/ring off the AH?

How the heck did you get that much damage on BOOTS?

BTW, you can make 100 plat running the harbor quests on normal, I know this from Permadeath/untwink play. By the time you are level 4 you can usually make enough to buy an ok weapon, ok armor, and a few useful items from Brokers/AH. Oh, and Tumble pots are cheaper than a FF item and you get them for free from breaking barrels.

They were my only pair for 9 lvls or prgress.

[Lorien_the_First_One]

Call me silly, But I liked the old EQ method of Corpse runs.
That put the fear of death in you for sure..

Running to my corpse is one of the reasons I quit other games during the free trials. No thanks.

For some, yes. For many others, no. MMOs in general, and DDO is no exception, have a fairly large number of folks who play not for challenge, but just to socialize, zone out, forget about life, etc. For those types, "challenge" = stress, and it is not conducive to their gaming experience.=)

That's me, I'm here for fun, not to feel like I'm working.

So 14 pages later they are still sticking to the "oops I died and all of my gear got mysteriously damaged" nonsense? Seriously? This idea should have been discarded long ago.

I'm with you on that I think this is a less than ideal system from a role play/common sense perspective but they don't care about that, they want a punishment. At least this punishment is now only cash.

It's not arbitrary... you took enough damage to die. Whether it was fantastical or physical means... your fantastical equipped items were in the same area during death. They're now travelling around equipped on you in the I'm-dead-plane. They cry a little everytime you die.

Makes as much or more sense to me then, you've now become less experienced when you die. I think Planescape Torment even gave experience when you died.

It is arbitrary. We have a system already in place for giving damage based on the contact your equipmen gets in battle. My steel armor is in way way effected by PK (which is after all just an illusion that scares me to death).

As for the XP, you misunderstand that system. XP is just a measure of your relative power and a way to scale your abiliities. The D&D system of level loss is designed to indicate that no one comes back whole from reserection, there is a cost to your spirit (well at least until True Res). The new debuff mimics that spirit nicely.

[Yaga_Nub]

Be a pal and help them earn their valuable treasure and xp, kite all the mobs back to them!

Don't think that I don't do that!

Either that or just recall out, drop group and go back in (after kiting mobs back to the person).