Should there be a code of conduct for streamers directly supported by SSG?

[Kalari]

I learned from years on Twitter what threads like this truly are. I said what I said and I meant it, the streamer community is doing a service for this game. If someone makes a thread (even if it wasnt the OP) calling out a streamer by name then acts like that streamer isn't allowed to respond on their stream that is ridiculous. we all know it happened and they are the ones who violated the code of conduct that is why their thread got zapped. I addressed them in the post because as you know they are in your thread. You can call me toxic nothing I said was wrong. Streamers do not directly have any say in any changes in game, it is beyond ridiculous to believe this but I cannot convince folks so determined to be right about things of this so you go on believing evil streamers call development shots. I will go enjoy a community that doesn't fight the way these boards seem to. And as for code of conduct both SSG and Twitch are serious about stuff like that, so accusing folks of harassment was troublesome. And yes OP You didn't directly do it but you alluded to troubling things. So maybe either say exactly the trouble or stop making threads that make it feel like you are calling folks out for imaginary issues.

[dogsoldier]

Thread got zapped because it was quite obviously an embarrassing moment for SSG. Whether the thread that got pulled OP, or the streamer actions rose to anything serious is unlikely. That doesn't make the topic of expectations for behavior less relevant.

[salmag]

All streamers should have a code of conduct regardless of if they are supported by SSG or not. Life is hard enough without being nasty to each other.

Stoner81.

This

snip

SSG obviously shouldn't advertise toxic streamers.

and This

If they are directly supported by the company, they should be subject to the same restrictions on behavior and speech as the employees of the company.

It's not a matter of free speech (which doesn't apply to most of what a bunch of you think it does). It's a matter of company rules, and what's best for business.

and This

[JOTMON]

Streaming is a form of advertising, endorsing streamers that promote your product is not a bad thing.
Streamers show a perspective that other forms of advertising just don't accomplish, a first person perspective.. good and bad.
Many players and potential players enjoy observing from this perspective, often seeing various tricks, tips and idea's... and of course personal bias of the streamer...
People who enjoy the streams will follow them, those that don't.. don't.


SSG would need to ensure that anyone they are endorsing isn't representing their company in a profit harming manner.
Like athletes gone bad... they lose endorsements when they do something that may harm the 'company image' (aka profit).
The companies don't need to like or agree with the athlete's actions or beliefs as long as the activities don't cause harm to the profit margin..


If you want to Karen up and play the role of self appointed morality police then report it to the various powers... I am sure one of them has a hurt feelings report that can be filled out.

Otherwise change the channel, no one is forcing you to watch the streams.

[slarden]

I learned from years on Twitter what threads like this truly are. I said what I said and I meant it, the streamer community is doing a service for this game. If someone makes a thread (even if it wasnt the OP) calling out a streamer by name then acts like that streamer isn't allowed to respond on their stream that is ridiculous. we all know it happened and they are the ones who violated the code of conduct that is why their thread got zapped. I addressed them in the post because as you know they are in your thread. You can call me toxic nothing I said was wrong. Streamers do not directly have any say in any changes in game, it is beyond ridiculous to believe this but I cannot convince folks so determined to be right about things of this so you go on believing evil streamers call development shots. I will go enjoy a community that doesn't fight the way these boards seem to. And as for code of conduct both SSG and Twitch are serious about stuff like that, so accusing folks of harassment was troublesome. And yes OP You didn't directly do it but you alluded to troubling things. So maybe either say exactly the trouble or stop making threads that make it feel like you are calling folks out for imaginary issues.

I didn't make the thread you are referring to and I don't know the people that were posting - they aren't anyone I know or had contact with ever to my knowledge.

I didn't violate any rules in the thread you are referring to

There was no fight in this thread (please reread op) and I would like to see the topic discussed rather than people getting attacked (players or streamers)

I never called streamers evil and have no knowledge of how development decisions are made

As far as I know the recent issue raised had nothing to do with me and my name wasn't even involved it. If it was I have no knowledge of it as I wasn't watching streams I was playing online board games on board game arena last night and making a few posts between turns.

I have witnessed a few incidents that I consider inappropriate which I mentioned in my op specifically. I don't have any knowledge of the specific incidents discussed last night and wasn't involved, but it touched on a topic that I thought was important. To the extent streamers are attacking community members, I don't think SSG should be providing support - free codes, early access, etc. I am curious what others think about the topic.

But please don't blame me for whatever happened last night. I wasn't involved other than saying that streamers shouldn't be attacking community members and I specifically qualified it stating it was a general comment not directed at anyone.

[GeneralDiomedes]

And there we see the problem with threads of this type. Forum judge and jury have already labelled a he-who-shall-not-be-named streamer as Toxic.

[Matuse]

When you (the generic you) writes a post on a public forum that can be read by anyone anywhere on the entire internet, don't act surprised or angry when someone does in fact read it and has an opinion about it.

The idea that a streamer is not allowed to have an opinion about what you write or that putting a forum post on stream (when that forum post is already in full view of THE ENTIRE WORLD) is some kind of gross violation is ridiculous. If these were emails/DMs sent in private, or internal guild forums or something, then you might have a point. But when it's in full public? No. Not.

[Reign.]

Should there be a code of conduct for streamers that are directly supported by SSG, for example:

- Receiving free content
- Given point codes to pass out
- SSG staff appear on the stream
- The stream is promoted or mentioned by SSG staff

I am all for free speech and don't honestly care if people use their platform to attack players in the community, but I don't think these streams should be supported by SSG.

Examples I've witnessed by streamers supported by SSG:
1) Streamer calling out a pug player in their party for being terrible when the name is directly visible to viewers
2) Streamer calling out specific forum posts on their stream

These type of activities can easily be viewed as online bullying and invite viewers to harass that community member. I am not talking about general comments such as "the forums are toxic". I am talking only about calling out community members by either showing their name or directing viewers to a specific post/thread even if the name isn't mentioned directly. I am also talking about making negative statements about specific players where there name is visible on screen as a party member or the streamer is trying to defame someone in the game.

Please do not mention specific examples from streamers or use the name of streamers or players. This thread is not intended to attack any streamers and in general I think it's entirely possible some streamers engaging in this activity do not fully understand the ramifications of what they are doing - after all - all streamers are relatively new to streaming.

Again, I am all for free speech- if streamers want to attack community members within twitch or other service rules - hey it is what it is and I don't care. But if SSG directly supports the streamer, should there be a code of conduct so streamers know what lines not to cross?

First off, kudos for trying to keep things clean.

On to the topic, there is a big thing to keep in mind here. All of us, content creator or not, in game (regardless of in a group, on stream, or not) or on the forums (or any other site), you're putting yourself in a public space. Anyone in a public space is open to public scrutiny.

So 'calling out' someone (streamer or not) for any reason (positive or negative) puts things into a complicated arena. So the examples given, on the surface level, doesn't really cross any egregious lines for me. Commenting on content that exists in a public space seems fair game.

That being said, lines can still be crossed. Saying something negative in the moment or commenting on a article or forums post isn't the same thing as ranting about someone and putting out a call to action against someone. So I guess its a matter of toxicity. If a content creator has risen to a toxic level, not supporting or taking action against them is just a prudent move for SSG. Really no different in how SSG should treat anyone of the community.

To answer the question then, does there need to be code of conduct for streamers? No more so than the one already in place for any member of the community.

[Arkat]

In general no. Streamers should be free to give their opinion on anything in the public domain including directly criticising SSG themselves.

You've completely missed the point of the OP.

[LightBear]

I believe Cordo when he says that he's unaware of any paid streamers, yet I have heard streamers say otherwise.

There are so many open ends to this that I can't wrap my head around these two truths but did wanted to share it here.

The only logical thing I can think of is someone from Daybreak pulling some strings behind the curtains.
But again, what the heck do I know.

Btw, doxing in any shape or form is bad. The thing is, twitch and youtube have a far greater reach than this mere forum.
I also think that SSG has some obligations to protect their customers against some monstrosities.
That said, it's super hard to be objective and in a cancel culture you really have to be careful not to be caught up in some witch hunt.
Guidelines can help you with that.

[slarden]

I believe Cordo when he says that he's unaware of any paid streamers, yet I have heard streamers say otherwise.

There are so many open ends to this that I can't wrap my head around these two truths but did wanted to share it here.

The only logical thing I can think of is someone from Daybreak pulling some strings behind the curtains.
But again, what the heck do I know.

Btw, doxing in any shape or form is bad. The thing is, twitch and youtube have a far greater reach than this mere forum.
I also think that SSG has some obligations to protect their customers against some monstrosities.
That said, it's super hard to be objective and in a cancel culture you really have to be careful not to be caught up in some witch hunt.
Guidelines can help you with that.

I didn't mean to imply streamers were getting paid by SSG, by "direct" support I simply mean SSG is doing things to intentionally help specific streamers such as what I listed in the OP:

Should there be a code of conduct for streamers that are directly supported by SSG, for example:

- Receiving free content
- Given point codes to pass out
- SSG staff appear on the stream
- The stream is promoted or mentioned by SSG staff

Indirect support would be things not targeted at a specific streamer, but in this case I consider it direct since they are giving things to specific streamers.

I didn't mean to imply in any way that SSG was paying streamers and I never thought that to be the case.

[Martininice]

Premium busybody content.

[KraftLorance]

- Receiving free content

Reviewers have an ethical obligation to disclose if they're receiving free content. When streamers do reviews, they have an ethical obligation to disclose this, and past free content. This is on the streamer, not SSG. SSG doesn't need a code of conduct for this.

For everything else, all I'll say is that gamers are notorious for reactionary views, and this thread is giving me vibes that the Streamer you're referencing didn't actually do anything, and you're just on a witch hunt. Because streamers strive to dispel misinformation, and the forumfolk would rather be angry then correct.

[Reign.]

I can't believe I need to say this...

Giving out some codes, a highlight in an article, or even appearing for an interview does NOT mean SSG endorses the streamer. Nor does endorsement mean that one entity condones the actions of the other.

Remember when every piece of content was prefaced with '' x's opinions and views do not represent the views of y." That's still true today.

Sponsoring an event is not necessarily an endorsement of the streamer(s) involved either. At most, the only thing they'd be sponsoring is the event itself.

Streamers are not a spokesperson for a brand. They're not on an employee of nor are they under contract with SSG or Daybreak even if they would have something sponsored.

[Tanky]

The streamer in question is a baby eating demon that hates DDO. He just said as much on his stream.

/s

[Varr]

I think I've discovered a path to refilling the servers with players. Less chatter about chatter about watching a few players play and more direct play. Stepping back out of the 7th level of nerdome, see a few of you in the game at some point.

Don't know or even care what this thread is about, but was funny enough to me to spend 30 seconds to add my worthless 2 cents to the pile of worthless coins already stockpiled as I was logging in.

[Gordo]

It's not like asmongold is streaming ddo. I'm sure the very low viewer count streams have some effect, but it's a very small one at best. It's very obvious if you play the game that the population is very low. So streaming isn't doing much for DDO. The only problem I have with streamer trashing forum posts is that they themselves whine about all kinds of things regarding this game.

I recently started watching Asmon. I didn't know who he was or his popularity. I find his content fun to watch although the heavy WoW emphasis leaves me lost sometimes because I've never played the game. Watching the Sliker thing go down live was interesting and he's a good interviewer.
Not sure he'd ever waste his time with DDO. He has played obscure jumping/evading games that I am positive have more players than DDO and his viewers seem to like watching him get frustrated playing.

Looking forward to BG3 and some other MMO's on the horizon.

This recent epic failure by SSG will cut my expenditures here significantly.

[Mindos]

Is there a list anywhere of the total number of streamers of DDO? Does everyone who streams have a DDO forum account publicly known? I'm not asking for the names of these accounts, but was more wondering if there were any streamers that did NOT have a known forum account.

[Luthor_Darkhammer]

Please do not mention specific examples from streamers or use the name of streamers or players.

I don't care either way, but by this line right here, you are inviting people to basically lie and jump on the pitchfork wagon. I could easily say I heard a streamer say "insert derogatory name", whether it's true or not.

If you're going to call out a streamer/s supported by SSG, then you will need proof, not hearsay.

[dogsoldier]

Is there a list anywhere of the total number of streamers of DDO? Does everyone who streams have a DDO forum account publicly known? I'm not asking for the names of these accounts, but was more wondering if there were any streamers that did NOT have a known forum account.

The only streamer that I look at, and not generally for the streams, but for the YouTube videos is Voodu Spice. I have watched his morning coffee when waiting for an extended patch though, and it's a pretty chill and informative discussion.