Should there be a code of conduct for streamers directly supported by SSG?

[dogsoldier]

On the Sonic Blast tangent: Sonic blast was definitely out of line with the other spells. Were the classes using it out of line? Not That's a tougher call. It filled a niche for low-level arcanes vs. melee, and bards/air savants generally.

I completely agree from levels 1-11, but could it have kept it's AoE + Daze, had the Damage reduced down to 1d6+1 MCL5, so it starts to fall off from 6-11, and then is only ever any better again at level 24, in Fatesinger with the upgrades for it, and with the Master of Music feat.

Edit: And with this change, someone might not have gotten smoked by a Famine Reaper, just down 75-85% perhaps, and that misleading clip never would have been posted.

[dogsoldier]

The idea that an off hand comment from a streamer caused Sonic Blast to get its much needed balance adjustment is absurd. Just saying. It was a decision prompted by and executed by the team. We get that many of you dislike the change, but blame us for it rather than a streamer.

This kind of communication could have started the dialog back during the Lamannia testing. Prior to Go-Live of Update 56

[Reign.]

This kind of communication could have started the dialog back during the Lamannia testing. Prior to Go-Live of Update 56

What are you talking about? The sonic blast change was in lamannia testing and there was discussion on it. Or are you implying that SSG's decisions came from SSG's team and are not based off of offhand comments from streamers? I'm confused.

Regardless, I suggest taking this derailing discussion elsewhere.

[dogsoldier]

What are you talking about? The sonic blast change was in lamannia testing and there was discussion on it. Or are you implying that SSG's decisions came from SSG's team and are not based off of offhand comments from streamers? I'm confused.

Regardless, I suggest taking this derailing discussion elsewhere.

I was in those discussions, which were mostly one-way from players to SSG. Radio silence from SSG on the topic.

I don't remember seeing you in those discussions. Voxson provided some excellent feedback that was not listened to either.

[Reign.]

I was in those discussions, which were mostly one-way from players to SSG. Radio silence from SSG on the topic.

During lam, they're basically taking feedback en masse. Their response is what happens in the next phase of lam or go live. Sorry, you're not getting a one on one discussion, but that's how open public testing works. Otherwise, accept "what they're doing is what they believe to be the best for the game" as the default justification if they don't respond to some specific piece of feedback.

And lets not act like they don't listen to feedback. They do. Just cause they didn't do what you wanted is not evidence of them ignoring feedback no matter how right you might feel. For better or worse, they merely decided to go in a different direction. This rhetoric that its a one way street and they're ignoring it is grating and is not grounded in reality.

[dogsoldier]

I am quite certain that Lamannia testers are finding this discourse intriguing right now.

Edit: Also, since you were NOT in those discussions, why should you have such a big say on whether the feedback of those that were, mattered at all.

[slarden]

To the thread in question, which is obviously directed at me, I think that SSG should not support a streamer who attacks users in the community and should someone pop up who does this I would hope that appropriate action is taken. I just don't love how I stream the forums while the game is down, and then this thread happens as a response, it's really easy to make the inference (as others have in this thread) that I am culpable for every offence listed here.

This thread has nothing to do with you.

I wasn't watching the stream in question and haven't seen your stream for many months - not because I have anything against you or your stream - I just prefer the more analytical/math-oriented streamers which tend to have fewer viewers. I also don't watch streams much if at all during hardcore season.

I already stated the two incidents I listed didn't occur on your twitch which represents maybe 1% max of my total stream viewing since 2020. How can you possibly think I am making that inference when I specifically addressed that point?

The only connection is that there was a post Thursday while I was playing online boardgames at BGA that was since delete - I didn't even read the whole thread as I was also playing a game - just saw one comment about bringing negative attention to specific community members (not even directed at a specific streamer) and that reminded me I wanted to raise this topic. I was simply trying to raise an issue raised in that post more constructively and without targeting anyone specific because I felt that was wrong.

In retrospect I wish I would have waited a few weeks to raise this issue I believe in strongly in. It never occurred to me a streamer and a few fans would think this was about them, esp a streamer I watch very infrequently.

[dogsoldier]

Ok so I have to comment on this, which I had avoided doing, since I figured this would blow over.

Strimtom, I never thought you got Sonic Blast Nerfed. I suspected that the widely viewed video clip may have influenced SSG's decision, not that it came from you.

All I know about your streams is that they are entertaining, and that they cover a wide variety of playstyles that would be interesting to newer players that want to see what possibilities exist, or veterans that want to try something different. Now that I know that they can sometimes be even more entertaining than I thought, I might have to grab some popcorn and tune in sometime for a full stream.

Like Slarden, I look at specific information in areas that I am not strong in, such as Solo'ing Raids, and running Tanks.

"None of us is as smart as all of us"
-- Not sure on source, but I have seen that one before, and it seems appropriate

[Reign.]

I am quite certain that Lamannia testers are finding this discourse intriguing right now.

Edit: Also, since you were NOT in those discussions, why should you have such a big say on whether the feedback of those that were, mattered at all.

My involvement is irrelevant and at best a strawman. I'm just stating facts about how open testing/feedback works. Its how they've done things for years. Its how most companies seem to operate their open testing as well. Its fairly standard. Not much different than taking a survey with an 'additional comments' section if you think about it.

[dogsoldier]

My involvement is irrelevant and at best a strawman. I'm just stating facts about how open testing/feedback works. Its how they've done things for years. Its how most companies seem to operate their open testing as well. Its fairly standard. Not much different than taking a survey with an 'additional comments' section if you think about it.

Thanks for your feedback, very insightful. "That's the way we have always done it.", does seem to have been a stellar approach to the Update 56 rollout, and likely smoothed what would have otherwise potentially been a disaster with the feedback from veteran players.

[Ipsum]

This thread has nothing to do with you.
-snip-
It never occurred to me a streamer and a few fans would think this was about them, esp a streamer I watch very infrequently.

I find it hard to believe that you didn't have a specific content creator in mind when you wrote:

Examples I've witnessed by streamers supported by SSG:
1) Streamer calling out a pug player in their party for being terrible when the name is directly visible to viewers
2) Streamer calling out specific forum posts on their stream

Even if you are referencing a different content creator, it seems very disingenuous to say you were surprised when one out of the very small number of ddo streamers replied to this.

The title of this thread also seems disingenuous. It poses a question (should there be a code of conduct?) based on a false premises (streamers are significantly supported by ssg, there isn't a code of conduct that applies to streamers).

I honestly sympathize with the idea of talking about and coming up with specific rules of conduct. I think these rules should apply to all members of the community not just content creators. I will, however, save my feedback for a thread that does not appear as if it was started in bad faith.

[LurkingVeteran]

It seems that we have so far concluded that this thread is not about Sonic Blast and it is neither about Strimtom. I have high hopes for page 7, we are starting to narrow it down.

Maybe we can share good streamers, Slarden hinted that there was somebody besides Strimtom streaming DDO these days?

Are we sure it wasn't one of them that got Sonic Blast nerfed?

[Cordovan]

If someone does see someone on Twitch or elsewhere directly attacking other DDO players or harassing them we would appreciate a heads up, please grab the video and time stamp and send it my way through private message here on the forums. We can't police Twitch per se but as already stated it matters when it comes to whether we give out freebies to them to give away and such.

[dogsoldier]

For Lamannia testers, the important date was August 31st, when Update 56 went live with serious bugs, and structural problems, that were reported on the test server. New bugs that were not on Lama at all were also added.

"Here are the release notes for Update 56, released on Wednesday, August 31st, 2022" ...

Prior to that date, there was some time for discussion, similar to what is happening now, and regardless of whether you think the original post concerns were valid (I did, and still do), the subsequent dialogue has been more substantial than that which occured during the entirety of three rounds of Lamannia testing.

[slarden]

I find it hard to believe that you didn't have a specific content creator in mind when you wrote:


Even if you are referencing a different content creator, it seems very disingenuous to say you were surprised when one out of the very small number of ddo streamers replied to this.

The title of this thread also seems disingenuous. It poses a question (should there be a code of conduct?) based on a false premises (streamers are significantly supported by ssg, there isn't a code of conduct that applies to streamers).

I honestly sympathize with the idea of talking about and coming up with specific rules of conduct. I think these rules should apply to all members of the community not just content creators. I will, however, save my feedback for a thread that does not appear as if it was started in bad faith.

I can't control what people think, there are 10 million people in the US that believe many high level people including some presidents were/are shape-shifting aliens.

I really tried to keep this thread about the topic and not specific people. Oh well.

At least I am glad one streamer chimed in and agrees with what the thread is actually about and I appreciate that.

[dogsoldier]

It seems that we have so far concluded that this thread is not about Sonic Blast and it is neither about Strimtom. I have high hopes for page 7, we are starting to narrow it down.

Maybe we can share good streamers, Slarden hinted that there was somebody besides Strimtom streaming DDO these days?

Are we sure it wasn't one of them that got Sonic Blast nerfed?

Let me try this one again: Voodu Spyce. You usually see him on Warlock or Druid, so I don't think he would have been an influence on that decision.

You want to go down that rabbit hole, look at the number of Strimtom builds that featured Sonic Blast, and all the people running them. Again, I don't think he would have wanted to Nerf one of his Favorite Spells, but just his influence on the number of people doing the same could have been a factor from SSGs perspective, and if you do that in a level 1-11 Vacuum, you might create a problem for Level 24 Bards, utilizing the Master of Music feat, which adds +10 to Sonic Blast's Max Caster Level, making it useful again, in conjunction with the Fatesinger destiny. A little dialog could have gone a long way there.

[Reign.]

I can't control what people think, there are 10 million people in the US that believe many high level people including some presidents were/are shape-shifting aliens.

I really tried to keep this thread about the topic and not specific people. Oh well.

At least I am glad one streamer chimed in and agrees with what the thread is actually about and I appreciate that.

The irony of 'streamers might unintentionally harass players' thread ended up unintentionally harassing a streamer is pretty thick.

While I initially appreciated your attempt to not do this, it too seems I was naïve.

Apologies to those known and unknown I may of inadvertently helped harm.

[Cordovan]

All right, this thread is now done. Most parties involved have had their say, and at this point it is not productive to keep this thread open.