First Look: Radiant Servant Adjustments

[NabeGewell]

It's QoL in the sense that having cleric heals balanced around it meant effective healers did less caster damage. Do they need to offer more positive spellpower/other balance changes to go along with the removal of pacifism? Sure, but it's a major step in the right direction to not make healbots take extra dps hits and being able to bring the pain in between heals. Healers only being good at heals (by nerfing other spell damage) is an old forced role mechanic that really feels dated with the way the game plays these days. The only issue now is finding the right buffs to offset it the change to keep heals good (and update some of the other weaksauce stuff in the tree).

Since you don't understand yourself what quality of life means, I'll give some examples that would aid clerics:

*Faster running speed (bard has that)
*Propulsion (fvs has that)
*Spell component bags
*Reduced aura activation time
*Aura as toggle
*Wisdom based turning
*Turns exchanged for spell points to self

EDIT: If this Pacifism removal be concidered QoL then the 25sp ould be added back wihout penalties, instead we're seeing sp reduction...

From what I've seen dedicated healers(fvs specifically) and tanks are quite accepted in high reaper groups and axel dee-pee-ex builds aren't really cutting it. Whatever you claim to be outdated is still wanted over meme hybrids that underperform when compared to a bard lol.

[thomascoolone64]

[QUOTE=Propane;6435590]Thanks for sharing-

Agree with others Raid Dead SLA is poor choice - would much rather have Mass Cure Moderate SLA or Heal SLA.
I want to keep folks a live - bringing them back to life is a 2nd choice (unless it by passes Lingering Grip of Death) - then rock on!

I do like the Concept of the Radiance - mix in a little healing - even if a cure mod.
Does it work on removing curses?[/QUOTE

Lol, you want a get-out-of-death-penalty-box free card? Good luck! The only thing that bypasses that are the resurrection cakes in the store.

[Coffey]

The Cure Moderate SLA has a 6 sec cooldown rather than the original spell 3 sec. One of the faults of Domains is extended cooldowns IMO.

[Bacon_Burger]

T5 Radiance suggestions.

I like the concept, it just needs to be refined.

#1 Upon entering, within 40' of entrance, Radiance should be cast upon group. If someone dies before it enabled, they lose the buff.


#2 Make it a 3 tier ( 1/2/3) ability, with additional abilities or use a lesser/greater setting.



#3 Put some type of restriction for quests with portals that take you out of that instance. *Tempest Spine would not count, as all of those portals keep you in the mountain.


#4 RENAME IT PLEASE

[Djjinni]

Resist Energies and Protection from Elements Mass are interesting potential replacements that could fit within our remaining time budget.

There are many good arguments against the Raise SLA already given here, I won't pile on to add more to that and will just say - Something else would make much more sense there.

Protection from Elements, Mass is a strangely interesting idea and one of the better ones I've seen here if its relatively low cost enough to be a spammed ability.
It's niche enough to not be a huge power jump in most content but interesting for people that like the pure support role to have more to do than wait for heals.

Radiant T5s are already getting a really awesome new toy so I don't think this needs to be some groundbreaking ability in the Raise SLA slot, but something like Greater Resto/Resto, Mass/Protection from Elements, Mass/Prayer with a longer duration or such would be the route I'd go, given that a more extensive ability isn't really an option from your time comments.


Overall the rest of the changes are looking good so far.
(Longer Aura duration would be a really nice quality of life addition though, so I'm mentioning it here just in case it happens although I'm not optimistic on that one :P )

[Marshal_Lannes]

It's QoL in the sense that having cleric heals balanced around it meant effective healers did less caster damage. Do they need to offer more positive spellpower/other balance changes to go along with the removal of pacifism? Sure, but it's a major step in the right direction to not make healbots take extra dps hits and being able to bring the pain in between heals. Healers only being good at heals (by nerfing other spell damage) is an old forced role mechanic that really feels dated with the way the game plays these days. The only issue now is finding the right buffs to offset it the change to keep heals good (and update some of the other weaksauce stuff in the tree).

Yes, exactly!

Cleric is in a really weird spot right now where it's used mostly for splashes and hybrid builds, while FvS is the top divine healer, caster and / or melee.

Oh, this isn't my experience at all! Clerics are extremely powerful after U48. Have you played a pure evo or necro cleric? I barely take anything from radiant servant putting most points into DD, Feydark, and WP. Since I barely go into the RS tree, it's nice they are taking a look at it, even if it is a quick pass. Either way, pure clerics are quite good in the current meta.

[LightBear]

Hey, everyone!

• New T5: Raise Dead SLA. 15SP. 9 second cooldown. 1AP.
  
  • This is the same SLA that Beacon of Hope gets in T5, but we felt it was an important tool for Healing builds to have.

Can this be replaced by druid's Reincarnate?
Even nicer would be some new animation with this, some radiant aura for those reincarnated or perhaps some shiny wings.

[Khalibano]

Some thoughts/suggestions for the Radiant Servant adjustments

- Great reduction in the overall cost for a lot of abilities


- Divine cleansing: maybe this could be one rank that costs 2AP, does the 3rd Rank's effects? 3 tiers has always felt excessive for what this ability does. What I always found most interesting (since the Heal spell does all the rest) is removing petrification, but as it was in tier 3, and not really a condition that is widely inflicted by mobs in the game, I never really spent any aps here.


- The combined 'Extra turning' and 'Improved turning': to match the paladin's similar ability, perhaps this could also offer "Your Turn Undead ability now also deals +6d6/12d6/18d6 light damage to nearby undead, scaling with 200% of the higher of Healing or Light spell power, Melee or Ranged Power"

Maybe it could also add: "Your Turn Undead ability now also deals +6d6/12d6/18d6 light damage to the enemies specified in your domain (e.g. Air domain: elementals), scaling with 200% of the higher of Healing or Light spell power, Melee or Ranged Power"

After all, this is the one tree in the entire game that specialises in turning undead, so it should be wow


- Bliss is still a bit lackluster. Perhaps the amount of temporary HP granted when using turns could be increased? How about 10/20/30? It could also apply to all allies in the dungeon, no matter where they are.


- Alternatively to the the above: Divine healing: Maybe it could also add: "Also, if you have Bliss, your divine healing grants your target 10/20/30 temporary hit points for each Core Ability you possess in this tree"


- Great move disconnecting Divine healing, martyrdom and reactive heal


- Martyrdom: it is, unfortunately, still quite lackluster. Could this at least scale with spellpower?


- Maybe combine 'Mighty turning' with 'Endless turning' in tier 3, since the combined 'Extra Turning' and 'Improved Turning' will be in T2? Despite the AP cost reductions, investing in turning undead is still quite costly, so this could help mitigate that.


- Cure focus (T5) removes maximum spell level cap, and that always made me fell like T4 'Incredible healing' was useless and a waste of 6 APs. Perhaps 'Intense healing' and 'Incredible healing' could be combined and granted at tier 3, so it mitigates the feeling described above? This would also help boost healing spells for clerics who don't go tier 5 in this tree. May I suggest that this also include all positive spells too?

- The advantage of 'Cure Focus', then, would be to remove the cap for all positive/healing spells (vs only +3 max caster level for all positive and healing spells at tier 3)


- Reactive heal: could this scale with spellpower?


- Consider adding: Heal SLA


- Some extra suggestions to replace the T5 Raise Dead SLA:
> Death pact SLA that can target another player
> Turn undead now deals xd6 light damage to your domain's enemies (e.g. Air = elementals)
> Heal SLA
> Clickie, like Shining through, based on WIS, long cooldown, grants temp HP to everyone no matter where in dungeon?
> Mass Divine Healing, scales with spell power?
> Mass Unyielding Sovereignty, 2 uses per rest?
> Wellspring of Health: target self, duration 30 secs. Activate to gain +50 Positive spellpower and +10% positive spell critical chance. Cooldown 3 minutes?
> Empower Heal has double effect on all spells it applies to?
> Aura of healing (1 AP): Toggle: You remove your Positive Energy Aura from yourself and transfer it to an ally. Number of targets and amount of hit points healed still use the cleric's caster level and spellpower stats (Cooldown: 6 seconds) (Metamagic: Empower Heal). Each tick still refreshes on-heal abilities that would normally originate from the cleric, such as Sacred Touch and Empyrean Magic.

This would go a long way towards helping clerics compete with the healing wall from Favoured Souls, as it would remove the need for them to be in the thick of battle to use the aura on allies. It is a toggle, so if they want the aura centered on them (if they are are type of cleric that is in the thick of battle), they can just not toggle it on

[Ausdoerrt]

Oh, this isn't my experience at all! Clerics are extremely powerful after U48. Have you played a pure evo or necro cleric? I barely take anything from radiant servant putting most points into DD, Feydark, and WP. Since I barely go into the RS tree, it's nice they are taking a look at it, even if it is a quick pass. Either way, pure clerics are quite good in the current meta.

Heroics? Sure. Epics? Mehhh.

[Tilomere]

This is a fail, because the only thing that matters is AoE dps for zerging R1 for 80% of the population to get to cap where SXP and RXP rewards and Past Lives are obtained, exactly as you set game up to be. Which is why even after you revamped FvS and Cleric and Druid and Arti casting, no one plays them on live:



The only way for this pass to not fail exactly like the BoH/AoV pass and druid/arti spell pass is to add AoE dps for zerging R1 to RS. Add light spell power/crit/caster levels/max caster levels everywhere there is positive equivalents, otherwise I and pretty much everyone else will ignore this tree for the next decade just like we did for the last one.

The only two times in the last decade I have touched Radiant Servant were to power Avatar of Nature spirit for AoE dps, which you nerfed, and to power paladin as a splash to make turn undead kill mobs and provide soundburst AoE helpless damage in heroics, which you also nerfed. The way the game is designed means there is simply no reason for me or anyone else to touch radiant servant unless you reintroduce AoE damage to it. The only thing that matters in the game is AoE dps. Efficiency of the tree is irrelevant, and all the healing in the tree and even in cleric class itself is redundant with UMD heal scrolls which are sufficient fo R1 leveling for 80% of the population.

The lack of AoE dps on supports leads to a lack of supports, which means I ultimately get a bad game experience of basically having to solo more or less the entire dungeon as I level into upper heroics on higher than R1.

Oh, and you also need to fix the sunelf cleric SLAs to be the updated spells damage die for consistency.

Oh, and its 15 years past due, but you need to update the UI or provide a toggle metamagic or other feat so that undead stop eating positive energy healing spells and abilities that no one in their right mind would ever cast on an undead for damage.

[LittleLexi]

Another possible alternative to the raise SLA is a Mass Cure Serious Wounds that buffs affected targets to have unconscious range increased by 20*Cleric levels. It does the job, is impactful, and ties in nicely with what a Cleric wants to be doing anyway. The Cure Moderate Wounds SLA can be replaced. We are regrettably in a place in DDO where every class can do healing. So giving the Clerics some oomph and uniqueness, that pushes them forward as the prime healers for raids and such is a positive thing.

[DRoark]

Turning, even if you are fully specced for it doesn't scale for beans since it's HD based, and not a DC check like everything else in the game.
Clerics, fully specced, very often can't hit a single undead once they get out of the minor-leagues.

Change the base Turn Undead skill, to a timer, so feats add to the the DC check or decrease time. Think "Everything is Nothing", but only effects undead.

Improved Turning/Extra HD effected = Adds to the DC.
Extra Turning = Decreases the time between Turns.
Skills that use Turn attempts = Uses based on cleric level (so not attached to the Turn mechanic).

To make up for the longer time between Turns, domain effects when a Turn is used, have a longer duration.

[karatemack]

Turning, even if you are fully specced for it doesn't scale for beans since it's HD based, and not a DC check like everything else in the game.
Clerics, fully specced, very often can't hit a single undead once they get out of the minor-leagues.

This does not match my experience at all. Feel free to send me PMs or hit me up on Discord if you want to compare notes.

When built as a DC caster, I swap my weapon and can effectively turn undead in R10 content at cap.

[DRoark]

New T5: Radiance: Activate: All allies in the dungeon (regardless of distance) gain the effects of the Greater Restoration spell, and purges Paralysis, Stun, and Knockdown/Trip. This can be used while Crowd Controlled. (Activation Cost: 30 Spell Points. Cooldown: 1 minute.)[/B]

They nerfed Coccoon awhile ago because of out-of-LOS healing, but they want to add a dungeon-wide restoration?

How about just updating Ameliorate do Lesser/Resto/Greater Resto, instead of just Lesser (so it's useful).

-----------------------------------------------------------

When built as a DC caster, I swap my weapon and can effectively turn undead in R10 content at cap.

Soon as you said you're running R10, I already knew you're not having average cleric issues. Most WIS clerics, Turn is garbage.

[Smells_Like_Awesome]

You could make clerics immortal, give them infinity mana, and the average gamer still wouldn’t play one, as it doesn’t make their *ahem* feel bigger than the next guy’s.

The challenge here is a social one; you need to figure out a way to incentivize selflessness.

There is a lot of truth here. Much like the Water Domain is tied to Positive Spell Power, a possible answer might be "better" SLA's in the domains and draw on positive spell power versus light or other some other infinity.

[karatemack]

Soon as you said you're running R10, I already knew you're not having average cleric issues. Most WIS clerics, Turn is garbage.

The build I referred to is a WIS build. Also, if it works in R10... it works in content that isn't R10 as well.

I've noticed a lot of people who play Clerics in this thread making broad statements about Turn Undead which don't match my play experience even on a first-life Cleric. I'm more than happy to compare notes and help out where I can, but if you want to use Turn Undead effectively in the game as it is today... I have a great news for you!

[Coffey]

The build I referred to is a WIS build. Also, if it works in R10... it works in content that isn't R10 as well.

I've noticed a lot of people who play Clerics in this thread making broad statements about Turn Undead which don't match my play experience even on a first-life Cleric. I'm more than happy to compare notes and help out where I can, but if you want to use Turn Undead effectively in the game as it is today... I have a great news for you!

It feels like im watching an ongoing infomercial and im waiting for the final sales pitch. Should we all PM you or can you share with us please?

[karatemack]

It feels like im watching an ongoing infomercial and im waiting for the final sales pitch. Should we all PM you or can you share with us please?

Fair enough.

I published a full guide back in 2017- https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...ead-Guide-2017

The information is dated but still sets you on the right path. Just make sure you have Mighty Turning as well as Improved Turning from Radiant Servant, cast Seek Eternal Rest, equip a Tattered Scrolls of the Broken One and equip a weapon with the turning filigrees (Embraced by Light: Turn Undead, Final Burial: Turn Undead Charges, Final Burial: Turn Undead Hit Dice, Final Burial: Turn Undead Maximum Dice and Final Burial: Charisma). If your build decided to dump Charisma (you shouldn't have to for DC casting) then you can still create a Collective Sight with Charisma/Insightful Charisma on it. At most you'd have 3 items to swap for turning; Bracers, Goggles and Weapon.

If your goal is DC casting, then both Death Domain and Aureon's Instruction have great synergy with both DC casting as well as Turn Undead. In addition to the Hallowed and Sacred bonuses, you can stack up Eternal Faith, Silver Flame and Insightful Faith bonuses as needed. Eternal Faith can be found on a Trinket, Helm or Shield. Silver Flame and Insightful Faith are both able to be found on the Mythic Seraphim which is a helm that drops in Necro 4.

Obviously having the Cleric past lives helps a ton, but if you don't have the PLs and don't see that as a viable option you can roll a Morninglord which comes with Bane of the Restless as a Tier One racial enhancement ability which provides a similar boost to Turn Undead. You can also always utilize both.

After I'm finished with my current Warpriest project, I plan to publish an updated guide to Turn Undead for 2021 with videos. For now though, if you follow the above you should be able to Turn Undead without major issues. If you do still encounter issues, please PM me so we can compare notes and figure it out together, because Turn Undead does work from level 1 to level 30. Good luck to all of my fellow Clerics.

[Coffey]

Fair enough.

I published a full guide back in 2017- https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...ead-Guide-2017

Thanks karatemack!

Great guide well done reading it right now.

[Kelledren]

Instead of a T5 SLA, maybe in its place put three ranks of +25 positive spell power and 3% positive spell crit chance for 2AP each tier. This would replace what was lost from pacifism and give a decent bump to both auras and bursts… just requires a serious AP investment to get there.

As far as perma aura toggle which some have asked for, seems too strong imo. Plus domains are already designed to give boosts with these turn undead actions, which are nice for boss beat downs etc. That being said adding remove curse to the burst would be convenient and I feel an appropriate boost.