First Look: Radiant Servant Adjustments

[ideal_insomnia]

Just chiming in to say that making Radiant Servant cheaper is SO nice. I really appreciate the change. However, I agree with other people who say that t5 Raise Dead is pretty meh. Radiant Servant most certainly needs more t5 abilities, but Raise Dead sure ain't it. Something that can be easily done with a scroll simply isn't worth the AP cost, even if it's just 1 AP. Pretty much any healing spell SLA would be better.

[axel15810]

Tried to make this short and concise, things I think the team should look at again from someone who has mained cleric for 10+ years in DDO:

- CMW SLA is now duplicated in healing domain, may want to address that. Perhaps give healing domain a different SLA.

- Raise Dead SLA should clearly be switched for something else, for reasons I explained in post #66 in this thread. (Heal SLA just like FVS Beacon tree gets if you're going for parity here?) Resurrection SLA would be decent as well but appears team already decided no on that.

- Martyrdom should be replaced or reworked, it's quite silly IMO to spend points on an ability that is used on death only.

- I think radiant servant burst needs a slight healing buff considering it has no range. Even on my level 30 pure cleric with tons of healing amp, applying every metamagic possible and a really high positive spellpower it feels lacking.

- This is very minor but change Radiance's name. Radiance is already the term used in DDO for light damage/light spellpower via equipment. And this isn't a light attack at all so it's just confusing. I'm sure the team can come up with something better.

Overall though, mostly good stuff. Radiance looks enticing and I'm really happy you all reduced some of the AP costs. Thank you for the quick pass.

Also gave more extended feedback in a video on my youtube channel if anyone on the team wants to check that out as well.

[rabidfox]

T5 Radiance;

I asked if this was in raids as well.

WHY?

I can't see how you're going to allow this to function as planned, "in every part of the dungeon". It doesn't make any sense at all with in-place game mechanics of LoS for an example.

So you're telling me, when I go through a one-way portal (rift between worlds eg) that a cleric back in any area of first part of that dungeon is going to cast ANYTHING that can target me? Or someone in lower level of Tempest Spine can get help from someone at end fight portal? or how about Coal-chamber? This just doesn't make reasonable sense.

As much as I like the concept, the way you have it planned to work is *less than a desirable method for implementing than makes sense* (in other words..... nonsense)

SS, scale this back a little please.

They already established this previously with the c6 Feydark skill for 95% concealment regardless of location; so this just is the newest use of their new toy mechanic. Lore wise, it makes tons of sense that one uses a divine power that helps all your buddies out regardless of where they are; pray to one's god, divine aid shines down upon them anywhere in the god's domain (and I won't be surprised if we ever see a raid down the line that blocks the power under the guise that one's god's influence is weak in whatever domain the fight occurs in- ie some mechanic they don't want us to break with the ability).

[Steelstar]

They already established this previously with the c6 Feydark skill for 95% concealment regardless of location; so this just is the newest use of their new toy mechanic. Lore wise, it makes tons of sense that one uses a divine power that helps all your buddies out regardless of where they are; pray to one's god, divine aid shines down upon them anywhere in the god's domain (and I won't be surprised if we ever see a raid down the line that blocks the power under the guise that one's god's influence is weak in whatever domain the fight occurs in- ie some mechanic they don't want us to break with the ability).

It's not that new! Renegade Mastermaker is the first tree the tech was used in.

[ThomasHunter]

Resist Energies and Protection from Elements Mass are interesting potential replacements that could fit within our remaining time budget.

I’m a huge fan of Resist Energies so adding that to another tree would be sweet!

[karatemack]

I think the main "gap" between Cleric vs other primary healing classes still needs to be addressed.

Are improvements to the aura OR <insert some new type of healing over time ability> being considered for Cleric?

I like the design of the RS tree overall, allowing you to boost the CL of cure spells while still maximizing positive spell power and crit chance. The overall healing potential of Cleric is amazing via the cheap mass cures you can spam... however in actual gameplay experience spamming spells just isn't as effective as a persistent healing over time ability due to a number of factors (IE: lag/timing/etc.). Clerics are already SP challenged when compared to FVS- so hopefully so nice improvements to the aura are in the works.

[Rull]

Pacifism is an odd ability. While there are certainly builds that like and use it, the ability to toggle it on and off made it not really fitting for the flavor of the ability, and the tradeoffs for the power didn't really... matter much. And its position in Core 2 meant you had to take it, even if you didn't want it. We went through a few iterations of trying to make something of it before scrapping it outright. Radiant Servants should have a lot of new points to put elsewhere after this pass, and the resulting builds should be stronger even without Pacifism.

Hmmm I don't see how the builds would be stronger. -25 spellpower, -3% crit chance + almost nothing.

The raise dead and cure mod are not worth putting on a bar, so that can't be it.

4% crit damage is nowhere near as good as 3% crit chance. every 1% is roughly comparable to 2.5% crit damage. So it would need to be 7.5% to break even. And besides, critting more often is better than critting harder for healers (for sorcerers, it doesn't matter as much, as it averages out pretty fast, but for healing this is certainly the case).

You still need to take 30 points' worth of enhancement in the tree to get to tier5, so you won't have a single point more to spend elsewhere after this pass. You can just take MORE garbage.

A dedicated healer takes CON and CHA second. It really doesn't care about wisdom at all, so that's not helping either

The mass harper pin is nice.

It's not a huge nerf, but it's certainly not an inprovement. You're taking away 25 spellpower and 3 crit chance for basically nothing.

[LittleLexi]

Firstly — thank you for doing at least some work on these trees.

I would like to echo that the Raise Dead SLA is not a great call. I also think making it a Mass Resist or Protection from Energies is pretty lame for a T5 ability.

I would prefer an uber Turn that leaves a behind a short duration buff to positive spell power, has a spawn screen effect, and makes any incorporeal creature in the radius lose that trait for a time. Or at least the first part if the rest is too much for the present.

[Chacka_DDO]

If this is not already mentioned in this treat, Positive Energy Aura should also be improved to bring it on par with Regeneration Construct from Renegade Mastermaker.
Both regeneration Auras should last 30 minutes in my opinion, even more, I would like if both Auras are toggles with infinite duration (also not dispellable).

[Rull]

Here's what I would do:
Radiant Servant should improve your healing, so it should have some positive spellpower early on. 10/20/30 on tier2 and 25 more in the second core. This allows other classes with healing to dip into 2 or 3 cleric to improve their healing without forcing everyone to do so. A 18 druid/2 cleric who gives up on DCs should be slightly better at healing than a 20 druid.

In tier5, there should be something just for clerics (healing aura) and something for whoever is willing to take 5 levels of cleric and tier5 in a healing tree. So a Cure Critical SLA that scales on character level (not cleric level). If a build is sacrificing so much to get a bit of healing it should get a decent one, and it's a nice addition for cleric healers.

Raise dead SLA.. is just not worth anything. Past level 7 raise dead gets declined in favor of a resurrection because anyone can cast or UMD that.

[rabidfox]

It's not that new! Renegade Mastermaker is the first tree the tech was used in.

Hehe, total forgot about that one; that tells me how often I've run with someone using the mass force field... given the addition of admixture heal with alchemists, mastermaker probably needs a slight QoL update at some point too but that's neither here nor there for a RS thread.

[rabidfox]

One nifty idea for a t5 instead of raise dead would be a Life Salve/Converter type ability to give a 100% positive heals to a target of choice. We've already got precedent for them being in game, so it wouldn't be something new. But being able to full heal a bladeforged or PM is always a nice thing.

[valkrei]

I haven't yet had time to post my full feedback (I will), but wanted to quickly chime in here.

Steelstar, I really disagree. The Raise Dead SLA should absolutely be swapped out for something else. Why not a Heal SLA like in Beacon?

The comparison you're making here is flawed because of the key difference between FVS and Cleric in that Cleric gets tons of spellslots and FVS doesn't. So it actually makes some sense for FVS to save them spellslots. But nobody is going to take this on their healing cleric. Clerics have no issue slotting all their 3 raises. And nobody uses raise dead over resurrection or true resurrection because of the extra HP those spell give on raise. This is super important in harder content and in raids where a raise dead with its low HP replenishment can easily get you killed again instantly. Plus resurrection scrolls exist, even if they can't be quickened, further negating any use a raise dead SLA might have. I wouldn't take a raise dead SLA even for only 1 AP because it has no meaningful use.

A Heal SLA should definitely go here instead. Beacon has it, and Heal SLA makes even more sense on Cleric since Clerics get less SP than FVS.

Please reconsider.

I agree with Axel. I was browsing the healing focus on clerics for 5E. What if you you added blessed healer, at 6th level the healing spells you cast on others now heal you as well.

[valkrei]

Rather than Raise Dead, how about a Jibbers Like effect. That puts jibbers on Timer if needed.

This is a cool idea.

[valkrei]

You do realize Resurrection scrolls are readily available? I don't see an issue with resurrection as an SLA. True.. I understand.

This should be bumped up to Resurrection as well.

This is on point, Personally I think Scrolls are OP in this game and no real DND adventurer would have 100 res scrolls on them. Since we are not nerfing scrolls in any way shape or form why be so taxing on a divine class who should excel at it?

[DeltaBravo]

Hey! A lot of good feedback so far. I'm going to hit some specific points that have come up in a lot of posts rather than grab individual quotes for parts of this one.

I can see where people are coming from on this one. However, we don't want to replace this with a Resurrection or True Resurrection SLA, for the primary reason that we want people to have to pay the full SP cost for the benefits of those spells( I think thats fair enough you want people to use some spell point on casting those spells.. However. i would gladly use 100 spell point to cast a True res, from ans SLA. i guess the problæem here is an easy fix to just make it Spell point expensive to cast.???)

Cheers DB

[Pandjed]

Steelstar: "We have time-constrictions and can't do anything fancy that needs to be tested, or new that needs to be programmed and tested. This isn't a pass, this is just a small adjustion."

A whole lot of posters: "Make us new and exciting stuff. Now!"

[Silverleafeon]

Resist Energies and Protection from Elements Mass are interesting potential replacements that could fit within our remaining time budget.

Resist Energies or Resist Energies Plus PfEM would be attractive for a cleric.

[LrdSlvrhnd]

Thanks for the heads-up. I was able to fix this, and assuming it passes QA it should go out with this pass - After the change, if you have Mighty Turning and a monster doesn't die to the death portion, it should proceed to the regular-turn portion.

Can this fix be tweaked to work for Hurl Through Hell? Currently, if you Hurl an enemy with DB or who can't actually die (the archons in Archons Trial, Disciples of Shar, mobs in Quarantine, guards in Make Believe if you choose to subdue, etc.) it just goes on cooldown and does nothing... it'd be nice to at least get the on-save paralyzed/helpless state.

[Kelledren]

I know I’m bizarre but I really enjoy playing healers, especially in raids. So thank you for addressing the issues with this tree that is AP costly and has many useless abilities mixed in with the 5 or so must have items. It was painful to spend points to get to your aura. I’ll list my thoughts below:

- I love the new T5 ability mass Harper Pin. It will take some of the Favored Soul healers and slide them over to the cleric side.

- Let me be the 856th person to say No Thank You to a raise dead SLA. If I cast that in a raid that person would reach through the computer and slap me, then I would punch myself. Someone mentioned a mass raise dead... now I am intrigued. Try to Jibs, group up 11 dead raiders, then hit with a mass raise then heal ASAP sounds intriguing. Mass Rez would be too good imo. At minimum is single target has to be a Rez to be considered.

-Let me be the 27th person to state 4% positive crit dmg is nothing compared to 3% crit chance. If you crit, you are healing plenty enough. That being said pacifism was garbage and I seldom used it- just add 3% crit chance somewhere in the cores and call it day.

-CMW SLA kind of stinky still. Make it mass and now you have a use.

-Divine Healing is awful terrible. Make it scale with positive spell power, put it in T5, charge me however many action points you want, and I will love it. If not might as well remove it from the tree and put something in that actually be useful.

-The thing with Cleric is finding out what your secondary thing you can do to contribute. Might be DC casting, dps casting, maybe a little ranged dps (Horizon walker hopes) or perhaps some thf melee dps (gets you yelled at in raids tho). If you gave a meta magic feat in T5 (say enlarge...) then that would free up a feat for one of these other things. That would be cool.

-Lastly I like the +4 Wis in the capstone. Likely you will be doing some DC casting, and this will have me invest in this capstone for the first time ever. Or you could do +3 wis and +3 char as some have asked for cha, but cha is not really an issue. You have plenty of turns, 20+ very easily, and they regenerate with endless turning. Running out of bursts/auras is usually not an issue.

Thanks again for this work!