First Look: Radiant Servant Adjustments

[rabidfox]

That being said adding remove curse to the burst would be convenient and I feel an appropriate boost.

"Content" said no on that (from the earlier dev post); which makes sense as it would make things VoD's curse very trivial (not that it's hard per se, but it does still take people out).

[Antheal]

As far as perma aura toggle which some have asked for, seems too strong imo.

A Bard (Spellsinger) can give someone Sustaining Song which not only gives 25+ minutes of constant health regeneration, but ALSO spellpoint regeneration too.

Why is a Bard song more powerful than a Cleric's Positive Energy Aura?

[Kelledren]

A Bard (Spellsinger) can give someone Sustaining Song which not only gives 25+ minutes of constant health regeneration, but ALSO spellpoint regeneration too.

Why is a Bard song more powerful than a Cleric's Positive Energy Aura?

It ticks as strong as the aura? Have not played a bard yet- but will have to try one out. All I know is that I’m happy when they are around. Still I renew my auras every 20-30s during boss beat downs to give party 18s of 10 ranged/melee power (or throw a burst). With the turn regen I usually don’t run out.

Also thanks Rabid for pointing out Remove curse no go.

[Marshal_Lannes]

Fair enough.

I published a full guide back in 2017- https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...ead-Guide-2017

The information is dated but still sets you on the right path. Just make sure you have Mighty Turning as well as Improved Turning from Radiant Servant, cast Seek Eternal Rest, equip a Tattered Scrolls of the Broken One and equip a weapon with the turning filigrees (Embraced by Light: Turn Undead, Final Burial: Turn Undead Charges, Final Burial: Turn Undead Hit Dice, Final Burial: Turn Undead Maximum Dice and Final Burial: Charisma). If your build decided to dump Charisma (you shouldn't have to for DC casting) then you can still create a Collective Sight with Charisma/Insightful Charisma on it. At most you'd have 3 items to swap for turning; Bracers, Goggles and Weapon.

If your goal is DC casting, then both Death Domain and Aureon's Instruction have great synergy with both DC casting as well as Turn Undead. In addition to the Hallowed and Sacred bonuses, you can stack up Eternal Faith, Silver Flame and Insightful Faith bonuses as needed. Eternal Faith can be found on a Trinket, Helm or Shield. Silver Flame and Insightful Faith are both able to be found on the Mythic Seraphim which is a helm that drops in Necro 4.

Obviously having the Cleric past lives helps a ton, but if you don't have the PLs and don't see that as a viable option you can roll a Morninglord which comes with Bane of the Restless as a Tier One racial enhancement ability which provides a similar boost to Turn Undead. You can also always utilize both.

After I'm finished with my current Warpriest project, I plan to publish an updated guide to Turn Undead for 2021 with videos. For now though, if you follow the above you should be able to Turn Undead without major issues. If you do still encounter issues, please PM me so we can compare notes and figure it out together, because Turn Undead does work from level 1 to level 30. Good luck to all of my fellow Clerics.

I still have your old guide (which is excellent) bookmarked, would enjoy seeing it updated. Based on this quick breakdown I have no doubt that turning can work. I guess the issue is how workable is that? For example, let's say you need to swap bracers, goggles, and weapons. Can you macro all that? Otherwise, how do you make the swap with all 3 and then fire off a turn attempt for it to be practical in a combat situation? In undead heavy quests you start off that way I suppose but in quests that have regular mobs/undead mobs what's your strategy? The proxy cost also seems rather high for a cleric to use one of its iconic D&D abilities. For example, you really need the cleric PLs and two leveled sentient gems, your "standard" DC (or healing)gem, and a "turning" gem. That's a lot of sentient xp investment. I suppose you use a sentient turning artifact which slots 3 and then your weapon only needs a couple. What artifact(s) would you recommend to put turning filigrees on?

[karatemack]

I guess the issue is how workable is that? For example, let's say you need to swap bracers, goggles, and weapons. Can you macro all that? Otherwise, how do you make the swap with all 3 and then fire off a turn attempt for it to be practical in a combat situation? In undead heavy quests you start off that way I suppose but in quests that have regular mobs/undead mobs what's your strategy?

I'll be able to answer this more fully when I'm updating the guide; however, I was running with the Legendary Flamecleansed Fury set equipped the last time I was a DC Cleric. Also, I didn't dump CHA. So I really only had to swap my weapon, and then only for high skull reaper content. When I update my DC Caster build for the current endgame, I'll post my build and gearset along with videos of quests I'm using Turn Undead in. (Last time I was able to hit around 150 for my necro DCs.)

The proxy cost also seems rather high for a cleric to use one of its iconic D&D abilities. For example, you really need the cleric PLs and two leveled sentient gems, your "standard" DC (or healing)gem, and a "turning" gem. That's a lot of sentient xp investment. I suppose you use a sentient turning artifact which slots 3 and then your weapon only needs a couple. What artifact(s) would you recommend to put turning filigrees on?

I recommend putting the "static" filigrees on your artifact and putting all "swap" filigrees on a weapon. 5 slots on a sentient weapon is only 20k XP (about 70 level 28-30 items). Personally, I don't consider that too high an investment especially considering the bar for endgame melees.

[OfElectricMen]

Unlike the Shadar-Kai change, this is pretty good. The RS tree is way too expensive currently.

I agree that the Raise Dead is not worth it. At that point, the cleric, and 75%+ of the party are just slinging RD scrolls like it's a rice at a wedding.

Go with True Res SLA or something different.

[NabeGewell]

I'll be able to answer this more fully when I'm updating the guide; however, I was running with the Legendary Flamecleansed Fury set equipped the last time I was a DC Cleric. Also, I didn't dump CHA. So I really only had to swap my weapon, and then only for high skull reaper content. When I update my DC Caster build for the current endgame, I'll post my build and gearset along with videos of quests I'm using Turn Undead in. (Last time I was able to hit around 150 for my necro DCs.)



I recommend putting the "static" filigrees on your artifact and putting all "swap" filigrees on a weapon. 5 slots on a sentient weapon is only 20k XP (about 70 level 28-30 items). Personally, I don't consider that too high an investment especially considering the bar for endgame melees.

I appreciate you actually playing a cleric, but after all that talk about caster stuff and undead nuking your gameplay videos are basically is a single weapon fighter(cleric) running around with a hammer 90% of the time, relying on a friend bard for heals.

Now it's true that a player well versed in Wiki is going to have an easier time with a character that has 75+ reaper points, up to date gear and a boatload of past lives running R1. But how about considering people who don't play this 10hours per day every day, for over a decade. For build tests I usually roll an iconic and run Mired to Kobold Elite. After about 5-6 nerfs warlock(alot sloer but doable) first lifer is still viable for it, cleric first lifer still stinks(unless you count inquisitor which I'm unable to test new character).

It's ok to flex every now and then, but lets keep this thread to Radiant Servant suggestions.

Someone suggested Warlock's T1 Resist Energies version for RS T5, I think that's kind of sad, but it's way better than Raise Dead which is a joke.

[HuneyMunster]

This does not match my experience at all. Feel free to send me PMs or hit me up on Discord if you want to compare notes.

When built as a DC caster, I swap my weapon and can effectively turn undead in R10 content at cap.

I know that on hard Too Hot to Handle you can Turn Wraiths in there.

What I would like to know is how effective is Turn Undead for monsters that are added to Turn Undead from Cleric Domains?

Though I would think you are using Death Domain.

[rabidfox]

Now it's true that a player well versed in Wiki is going to have an easier time with a character that has 75+ reaper points, up to date gear and a boatload of past lives running R1. But how about considering people who don't play this 10hours per day every day, for over a decade. For build tests I usually roll an iconic and run Mired to Kobold Elite. After about 5-6 nerfs warlock(alot sloer but doable) first lifer is still viable for it, cleric first lifer still stinks(unless you count inquisitor which I'm unable to test new character).

Clerics are awesome on 1st life, especially post u48.4. My cleric, FvS, and bard (along with several other classes) all tore things up on the latest hardcore season with just random drops.

[karatemack]

I appreciate you actually playing a cleric, but after all that talk about caster stuff and undead nuking your gameplay videos are basically is a single weapon fighter(cleric) running around with a hammer 90% of the time, relying on a friend bard for heals.

Now it's true that a player well versed in Wiki is going to have an easier time with a character that has 75+ reaper points, up to date gear and a boatload of past lives running R1. But how about considering people who don't play this 10hours per day every day, for over a decade. For build tests I usually roll an iconic and run Mired to Kobold Elite. After about 5-6 nerfs warlock(alot sloer but doable) first lifer is still viable for it, cleric first lifer still stinks(unless you count inquisitor which I'm unable to test new character).

I only recently started recording and posting videos. The gameplay videos on my channel at this point are me playing a Warhammer Warpriest and Grace playing a Sonic Nuker Bard. As I mentioned previously, when I update the Turn Undead guide for 2021- I'll include videos of Turn Undead at cap.

Also, more than one person mentioned that Turn Undead wasn't effective for them at cap. As requested, I posted a quick summary of how to make it effective at level 30- even on a first-life character.

Overall- these changes to RS are much needed and appreciated.

[Grace_ana]

It ticks as strong as the aura? Have not played a bard yet- but will have to try one out. All I know is that I’m happy when they are around. Still I renew my auras every 20-30s during boss beat downs to give party 18s of 10 ranged/melee power (or throw a burst). With the turn regen I usually don’t run out.

The bard song isn't as strong, because it can't be meta'd. The aura can. OTOH, the song ticks no matter where you are, whereas you have to be on top of the cleric for the aura to hit you. So for party healing, the song is more useful.

I appreciate you actually playing a cleric, but after all that talk about caster stuff and undead nuking your gameplay videos are basically is a single weapon fighter(cleric) running around with a hammer 90% of the time, relying on a friend bard for heals.

Now it's true that a player well versed in Wiki is going to have an easier time with a character that has 75+ reaper points, up to date gear and a boatload of past lives running R1. But how about considering people who don't play this 10hours per day every day, for over a decade. For build tests I usually roll an iconic and run Mired to Kobold Elite. After about 5-6 nerfs warlock(alot sloer but doable) first lifer is still viable for it, cleric first lifer still stinks(unless you count inquisitor which I'm unable to test new character).

It's ok to flex every now and then, but lets keep this thread to Radiant Servant suggestions.

Grig has played about every kind of cleric for over a decade, so he's actually knowledgeable on this. He knows more about cleric than any other player I've seen. He's playing a warhammer cleric right now, but his most common iteration is a caster/turning cleric. So he isn't flexing or working off the wiki; he's actually done the things he's talking about, and he's done them long before he had all the lives (he also def doesn't play 10 hours a day). I'd also venture to say that it's fine if a first lifer isn't as good at something that requires a DC threshold - some things you have to work more for (although nothing should need all the lives unless you are R10 raiding, and turn undead definitely doesn't need everything). The newer gear in the last few years has helped a lot with the former turn undead deficits.

[Talam]

Thank you for this.

[karatemack]

I know that on hard Too Hot to Handle you can Turn Wraiths in there.

What I would like to know is how effective is Turn Undead for monsters that are added to Turn Undead from Cleric Domains?

Though I would think you are using Death Domain.

This is a great point! I'll have to really dig into a few different domains to see how well Turn Undead works outside of undead things as well. Elementals could be ok, but Animal seems interesting. Turning raptors in Sharn?

Raids frequently have warded mobs. The same issue presents itself for DC casters who could otherwise deal with trash. The warding of Enraged Forgewraiths on LH and up makes those difficulties much more um... difficult.

[NabeGewell]

Clerics are awesome on 1st life, especially post u48.4. My cleric, FvS, and bard (along with several other classes) all tore things up on the latest hardcore season with just random drops.

You were playing in a full party(hardcore's biggest advantage - having a population) on elite I assume? Try R1 solo next time with your 1st lifer.

I've onply played HCL3 and gotta sayin only clerics I've seen didn't make it to getting their HEALING AURA, usually dying in traps. While I borelocked my way to 5k on 1st try(no bragging or asking for more nerfs, just saying the class survivability differences are pretty bad, buff weaker classes more).

Btw my 1st char is a 34point cleric since 2012 who did alot of soloing and alot raid solo healing. Not technically a 1st lifer but I lean towards no save or low dc required builds for various reasons, not even going to try to be 150 or whataver DC necrocleric lmao. While I was looking forward to this quick pass I'm getting disappointed as I read these, guess he'll remain as a dust collector. Hopefully steam summer sales offer something better.

Should move on if there's nothing else to tell regarding RS.

[Grace_ana]

In the Live version of the tree, if you somehow decide to buy as much Radiant Servant as possible, you spend 80AP and get 40 Universal SP and 90 Positive SP (115 if you're using Pacifism), effectively 130/155 Positive SP. Which is a ton. Other trees don't give anywhere near that much Spell Power. Granted, in reality you're probably not spending 80AP in this tree, but still.

In the new version of the tree, you spend 59 AP if you're buying absolutely everything and get 29 Universal and 69 Positive, effectively 98 Positive SP. However, you also have more points to spend in other places than before - You can pick up Universal Spell Power in Divine Disciple more easily than before, for example. It's not likely to get you back to 130/155, and as a balance note we're OK with that. As a Cleric, you have access to other avenues of Spell Power that didn't exist when the tree was originally made, such as the Healing Domain.

As a point of comparison, Favored Soul Beacon of Hope gets (40 + [5+STR/WIS/CHA mod]) Positive Spell Power out of their tree, assuming you're keeping the buff up constantly. They do come out higher if their relevant mod is higher than 53, but they also don't have access to Healing Domain.

In short, we are confident this change is going to be fine.

Thanks for the explanation. I get the math, but I feel that in practice this is going to be a bigger hit on first life toons compared to others, who can also make up the difference with past lives and reaper trees. The greatest thing about DDO in comparison to other games is the build flexibility and lack of pigeonholing, so to require a specific domain and enhancement spread in order to heal as effectively as before when you didn't need those things seems like going in the wrong direction.

Given the outcry about the raise dead SLA being underwhelming, why not just replace it with a spellpower enhancement? A T5 that adds 25 positive spellpower wouldn't be overpowered in comparison to other trees, especially since it's a huge party benefit.

[rabidfox]

You were playing in a full party(hardcore's biggest advantage - having a population) on elite I assume? Try R1 solo next time with your 1st lifer.

Nope, I 3-manned (static group) or solo'd all the stuff I did this season. My 2 buddies had a bad habit of playing while I wasn't on and getting themselves killed so then I'd solo my previous character (while rolling a new alt to level with them again- the reason I played so many different classes this time around). And clerics (like so many other classes) are highly survivable killing machines, even as 1st lifers (animal domain for the HP was my choice this season and it worked out well). I'm not sure why you're finding them to play so different than how I find them, probably something about how we differ in the style of building/playing them.

[Vish]

ya its my ode to clerics that i play one
not that theyre necessarily better or even good
but that theyre FTP

i have zero reason to play radiant,
tho its worth the splash for the burst, as a melee cleric...
but i would pretty much never run a t5 radiant servant
move the aura to 4? noone would ever go t5
so that wont happen
raise dead. yes we hate clerics
or if you /5 pally splah them they are tanks
so thats good enough for them
and supposed caster divines is divine
so thats good enough
yep, no need for another useful tree
not t5 heals anyways
iwas talking a cleric today
said his pos was near 1k
i kinda laughed
asked him if he cast
told him my cleric is 450 and does fine
and my alchy is 650 and is op
overhealing is a joke except self heals in reaper
that a cleric cant keep himself alivee
so, no further heals is needed
save the time for bow tree pls, and EDs
thx

[Enderoc]

for radiant servant I think shields should have been incorporated like healing shield...a boost to positive energy while blocking to heighten aura. Or knockback...Shield critical hits push back mobs that must save vs trip or be knocked down etc.
That said there should instead be an enhancement tree focused on shield mastery.

[nobodynobody1426]

Anyway we can get Heal Mass fixed casting time reduced to be something useful like the other heal spells?


On the Turn Undead front, it all depends on what the definition of "useful" is. If I make the definition "kill one or two undead at cap" then yes with all that investment it can be useful, if on the other hand I made the definition "clear a room of undead at cap" then it's not useful. Cleric already has several other spells that instantly kill stuff, including non-undead so hitting a button and knocking one or two out isn't an accomplishment. It's the issue with DDO still using the PnP formula that revolves around monster Hit Die and SSG using inflated monster Hit Die in epics. Monsters have 70+ Hit Die at cap, we would need 140~160 TU Damage to kill two and 210-240 TU Damage to kill three. Investing that much into an ability, including farming a raid item from a raid people don't often run for such mediocre results is that makes it bad. Effort vs Reward. What should happen instead is that a Cleric investing that much into TU should be able to kill more then two, or if they only kill two then the rest are CC'd as though they had a Halt Undead effect.

Cool note, if you use TU with an undead nearby, the combat log will list the actual TU Damage rolled, good for testing.

[SisAmethyst]

Hi,

I like most of the changes

I agree however with a lot of players that a raise dead SLA is something that I do not see as of any use. First of all, we have tons of clickies (eg. heroic shroud triple positive) that do just fine to raise someone. Second, for me, a SLA is something meant to spam, a bread and butter spell. If I have to spam raise dead something is awfully wrong!
As such having it as a T5 is a wasted opportunity for something more unique or better. For example, like an ardor clicky to increase healing spellpower, or as others suggested Death Pact on ally or Mass Protection from Elements... anything that makes me use this ability actually more than once to warrant it.

I also think there is another reason why people select this SLA on a FVS.

my 2 cents