First Look: Radiant Servant Adjustments

[shadowspeaker]

For the T5 ability- what if the raise dead SLA ignored all the timers that block raise dead. So in those quests that have them, they could raise people even if they had a timer. Or what about raise dead mass? You have an ability that is across the whole dungeon and impacts all allies. What about one that raises all allies? Make it usable 1x per rest or once every 10/15mins.

[TitusOvid]

Hey, everyone!

... snip ...

all good, nothing exciting

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• New T5: Raise Dead SLA. 15SP. 9 second cooldown. 1AP.
  
  • This is the same SLA that Beacon of Hope gets in T5, but we felt it was an important tool for Healing builds to have.
  
  
• New T5: Radiance: Activate: All allies in the dungeon (regardless of distance) gain the effects of the Greater Restoration spell, and purges Paralysis, Stun, and Knockdown/Trip. This can be used while Crowd Controlled. (Activation Cost: 30 Spell Points. Cooldown: 1 minute.)
  
  • We wanted to give this tree something shiny in Tier 5, and a Get-the-party-out-of-a-jam button seemed like just the thing.

Needed investment seems to be balanced.

T5 Raise Dead is not worth the points and/or sp. It is used in lvl range 8 to 12 because you can't scroll/cast Resurrection. Just use scrolls and if it gets really hectic there is a raise dead spell for emergencies. It is a waste of points in Beacon, too. Make it Resurrection and it is really nice. Normal Ressurection is cleric lvl 13. Having it at 12 would be worth 2 APs

T5 Radiance: Throw in Curse removal and you have something nice. Especially since you screwed up the unbound potions. I don't think "regardless of distance" is a good idea though. How about Enlarge distance? For that limit we could get 30s cooldown

A boost to the aura would be nice, too. In comparison to the healing wall from fvs it is worthless.


Cheers,
Titus

[noran602]

approximately 50% of all people that take Tier 5 Beacon of Hope take the Raise Dead SLA.

Many Favored Souls take that Tier 5 in Beacon of Hope because it saves them a spell slot (myself included). There are quite a few amount of good options to pick other than raise dead depending on your build from at 5th level: True Seeing, CLW (Mass), Greater Command, Divine Punishment, Flame Strike, ILW (Mass), Slay Living, etc. They only get up to 3 and this allows them to get an extra pseudo-spell slot. Clerics get up to 6 spell slots. They do not need a 7th spell slot for level 5 spells. I do not think any raise/resurrections SLA should go into the cleric T5 because they get so many spell slots and they also have ways to heal without expending spell points (which FvS lack). Instead they should perhaps lean into using more turns for beneficial effects.

[Antheal]

Here's some ideas for a Tier 5 ability.

Positive Energy Aura is now permanent instead of 30 seconds + 3 seconds per caster level.

Healing spells ignore racial type, healing undead and construct party members just as well as any other race.

[elvesunited]

As there were a few allegations in here that the Favored Soul version of the Raise Dead SLA, we decided to check the data to see for sure, and approximately 50% of all people that take Tier 5 Beacon of Hope take the Raise Dead SLA. Which is about what we'd expected on our end; it's a useful SLA for those who want/need it, but people who don't need it spend their points elsewhere. For that reason, we're likely to keep the Raise Dead SLA where it is.

Beacon of Hope has ...

5 Tier 5 abilities for a cost of 6 AP
5 Tier 4 abilities for a cost of 10 AP
4 Tier 3 abilities for a cost of 8 AP

If you're capstoning Beacon of Hope then you have need to spend 40 AP and there simply isn't enough things of value in the tree so you end up burning AP on stuff of little or no value just to spend enough to get the capstone. It does not mean they're actually using the raise dead SLA.

[Kelledren]

Beacon of Hope has ...

5 Tier 5 abilities for a cost of 6 AP
5 Tier 4 abilities for a cost of 10 AP
4 Tier 3 abilities for a cost of 8 AP

If you're capstoning Beacon of Hope then you have need to spend 40 AP and there simply isn't enough things of value in the tree so you end up burning AP on stuff of little or no value just to spend enough to get the capstone. It does not mean they're actually using the raise dead SLA.

It will likely be the same situation for cleric if they make the capstone worthwhile to go after. I would even gladly take a cure critical wounds SLA over raise dead at T5. That would get used a TON. After thinking more on the core 2 cure moderate SLA- that would be ok there for heroic leveling and cleric splash builds. It’s only core 2 after all. But I would move the 3% crit chance somewhere else in the tree. Losing 25 spell power too but only notice in leveling.

I get this is a quick and dirty bump up- but clerics will not use raise dead like some favored souls have to do. I keep true Rez and Rez on tool bars to get multiple people up. Cool down is not long enough to need a raise dead for a third.

[Monkey_Archer]

It's true, and if I can find time to shape them up in this pass I will, but I don't expect to at this time.

Please do update Divine Healing. Spending AP and a turn to heal for <50 per tick when Renewal can heal for 2000+ per tick makes no sense whatsoever...

It doesn't have to be as powerful as Renewal, just something remotely useful.

[HuneyMunster]

Please do update Divine Healing. Spending AP and a turn to heal for <50 per tick when Renewal can heal for 2000+ per tick makes no sense whatsoever...

It doesn't have to be as powerful as Renewal, just something remotely useful.

Divine Healing could do with having an initial tick instead of delayed by 2 seconds. On paper Divine Healing HoT sounds a decent ability for Harbour and Marketplace quests when comparing to CLW and CMW. Divine Healing 4d4 vs CLW 1d6+2 plus 1 per level and CMW 2d6+4 plus 1.


For a more powerful version of Divine Healing I would think it would have to possibly be placed in tier 5 instead of Raise Dead. Divine Healing spot could get Pacifism in it's place.

[gorocz]

Yes. Obviously. Scrolling isn't costless either, you're expending skill points, obtaining items, and shuffling around held gear as an alternate means of doing this that doesn't require the normal cost of the spell, and can't be Quickened; the same reasons I describe above apply here, it's just a different cost we don't want to grant an SLA to allow you to bypass in this case.

You're not expending skill points to use resurrection scrolls as a cleric, unless you really wanna use them at level 11 or 12. There's no UMD check for Clerics level 13 and onwards...

[SpardaX]

Maybe instead of Core 2 CMW, since people are saying we have lots of CMW SLAs already, maybe do a Close Wounds SLA like in the Beacon of Hope tree? The spell is really at it's best with the Cooldown at 1s, so where the BoH one goes SP cost: 6/4/2 Cooldown 3/2/1, maybe make the Core 2 SLA SP Cost 6 or 5 with the Cooldown 1. (The best Cooldown but the worst SP cost of the 3 ranks of Beacon of Hope)

It fits low levels, it's a spell that people don't usually seem to take much, and honestly I never thought id want as an SLA....right up until I got it as an SLA. The ability to freely Max/Emp/EmpHeal and just (at low levels) almost fill, or at least half fill a person per cast with 1s Cooldown is fantasticly potent and SLA cheap.

[NemesisAlien]

You know, I havent seen people use turn undead in yearssssss, like totally dont use it, should make it worth using somehow, its a default part of cleric class.

[JOTMON]

Hey! A lot of good feedback so far. I'm going to hit some specific points that have come up in a lot of posts rather than grab individual quotes for parts of this one.

I can see where people are coming from on this one. However, we don't want to replace this with a Resurrection or True Resurrection SLA, for the primary reason that we want people to have to pay the full SP cost for the benefits of those spells.

As there were a few allegations in here that the Favored Soul version of the Raise Dead SLA, we decided to check the data to see for sure, and approximately 50% of all people that take Tier 5 Beacon of Hope take the Raise Dead SLA. Which is about what we'd expected on our end; it's a useful SLA for those who want/need it, but people who don't need it spend their points elsewhere. For that reason, we're likely to keep the Raise Dead SLA where it is.

I question your interpretation of the FVS raise dead SLA usage data.

A FvS taking raise dead as an SLA instead potentially frees up spell slot due to FVS getting 2 less level 5 spells and later access to the level 5 spells.. this is not the same situation for a cleric.
By the time any player has access to resurrection raise dead becomes a last resort casting and usually never utilized again.
a level 13+ player casting raise dead would be frowned upon.


Ultimately it doesn't really matter, it is there to take or not, not every enhancement is meant to be useful

[karatemack]

You know, I havent seen people use turn undead in yearssssss, like totally dont use it, should make it worth using somehow, its a default part of cleric class.

Lots of us use Turn Undead all of the time.

Both for insta-killing as well as the domain abilities. Hit me up on Discord if you're having a rough time using TU effectively as an instakill for undead stuffs.

[JOTMON]

Lots of us use Turn Undead all of the time.

Both for insta-killing as well as the domain abilities. Hit me up on Discord if you're having a rough time using TU effectively as an instakill for undead stuffs.

Turns work great in low level content with appropriate investments, by the time we hit epics it all falls apart and becomes effectively worthless.

at level 20 I shift tracks... dump everything to do with turns and refocus on DC's as spells scale appropriately into epics, Turns don't.

[GoldyGopher]

Turns work great in low level content with appropriate investments, by the time we hit epics it all falls apart and becomes effectively worthless.

at level 20 I shift tracks... dump everything to do with turns and refocus on DC's as spells scale appropriately into epics, Turns don't.

I don't want to say I use turns "effectively" all the way to cap, but it sounds better than it works pretty well most of the time, until that one time it doesn't and than I wonder why my body parts are strewn all over the place.

[draven1]

How about "temporary Divine Intervention for whole group" instead of "raise dead SLA"?

For next 1~3 min, your group would have divine intervention regardless of range. This might be a clicky for "OMFG moment". Like temporary 95% concealment bonus for feydark illusionist.

[Chazmyr]

[LIST][*]Pacifism is gone from Core 2, and has been replaced with a Cure Moderate Wounds SLA: 4SP, 6 second cooldown.
[LIST][*]Pacifism is an odd ability. While there are certainly builds that like and use it, the ability to toggle it on and off made it not really fitting for the flavor of the ability, and the tradeoffs for the power didn't really... matter much. And its position in Core 2 meant you had to take it, even if you didn't want it. We went through a few iterations of trying to make something of it before scrapping it outright. Radiant Servants should have a lot of new points to put elsewhere after this pass, and the resulting builds should be stronger even without Pacifism.


Please consider making this a cure light wounds mass. Or even better, make it a new spell or ability that is the positive energy equivalent to lesser death aura. Fits the passive healing theme of the tree and would make for a nice unique ability. Or possibly replace divine healing ability with something like this.
Second suggestion would be at least update divine healing as others have suggested to make it actually useful.

[TitusOvid]

Yes. Obviously. Scrolling isn't costless either, you're expending skill points, obtaining items, and shuffling around held gear as an alternate means of doing this that doesn't require the normal cost of the spell, and can't be Quickened; the same reasons I describe above apply here, it's just a different cost we don't want to grant an SLA to allow you to bypass in this case.


Resist Energies and Protection from Elements Mass are interesting potential replacements that could fit within our remaining time budget.

Hm, excuse me but the only thing that is correct in this statement is that it can't be meta'd.
Yes, I need to spend plat on scrolls. But we have plat in abundance.
Expending skill points for what? UMD? Sure but not for divine scrolls/wands but for arcane. Clerics don't need UMD to scroll divine scrolls/wands.
Obtaining items? Which ones and whatfor? UMD? See answer above.
Shuffling around gear? Yeah I need to equip a scroll to cast it. But APs are much more valuable than a 3 second cooldown in a rare situation.

It is a T5 enhancement, the highest you can get and worthless. Anyone spending points in this, does it because he/she/they needs it to reach the capstone.
Put Pacifism in T5. 2 APs for 25 Spellpower and some crit is realistic. And it is optional. If you don't want it, don't take it.


Cheers,
Titus.

[Kelledren]

If it’s spell point cost that is the issue with a true resurrection SLA- then just have it cost the same as the spell. Would rather have another true resurrection on a separate cool down than a raise dead SLA.

Many other options listed would be great too- mass resist, mass protection, any cure serious or above SLA.

Thanks-

Kell

[Montegue]

Crazy suggestion -

Instead of Raise Dead as an SLA in T5, which I suspect nobody's really going to take, ever, what about this - Miracle - Long cooldown (once per rest?), you beseech your deity for a Miracle - all players are healed to full and cured of all ailments, and any dead player is affected as per a True Resurrection.