U45 Preview 2: Balance: Two Handed Fighting Changes

[Cocomajobo]

Disclaimer

Everything seen on the preview server, Lamannia, is not final and is subject to change or removal before live release.

Strikethrough
Glancing Blows game-wide have been replaced with a new mechanic: Strikethrough. While wielding a Two-Handed Weapon, or while wielding a Bastard Sword or Dwarven Axe in your main hand and a Shield, Orb, Rune Arm, or nothing in your offhand, your attacks can Strikethrough. When your attacks can Strikethrough, every attack has a chance ("Strikethrough Chance") to hit an additional target. By default, players have a 20% Strikethrough Chance (which can be improved through feats and enhancements), and cannot Strikethrough while moving. If your Strikethrough Chance is over 100%, you are guaranteed to hit a second target (if in range) on your attacks, with a chance to hit a third. By default, you can only Strikethrough while standing still.

Animations
The animation sets for non-Quarterstaff two handed styles have been reworked to address the following issues:

• The last animation didn’t blend into the first correctly. It now does.
• For balance & cosmetic reasons all attack animations for these styles should now execute in the same amount of time. Previously animations at the end of the attack chain took longer than those at the start. This encouraged players to animation break to avoid them, which looks repetitive and choppy.
• Standing attack speed has been slightly buffed, mobile speed should be exactly the same.

Feats

• Combat Style Feats
  
  • The Two Handed Fighting Feat is now: "While Two-Handed Fighting: +20% Strikethrough Chance. You can now Strikethrough while moving. You also gain a +2 Combat Style bonus to Melee Power while Two-Handed Fighting. For the purpose of this feat, you are considered to be Two-Handed Fighting while using a Two-Handed Melee Weapon (not including Handwraps). You are also considered to be Two-Handed Fighting while wielding a Bastard Sword or Dwarven Waraxe in your main hand and a Shield, Orb, Rune Arm, or Nothing in your off-hand. You are not considered to be Two-Handed Fighting while in Wild Shape. While using a Two Handed Weapon (not including Bastard Sword or Dwarven Waraxe), your Ability Score bonus to damage improves to 2x the Ability Score you use for damage. "
  • The Improved Two Handed Fighting Featis now: "While Two-Handed Fighting: +20% additional Strikethrough Chance. You also gain a +4 Combat Style bonus to Melee Power while Two-Handed Fighting. While using a Two Handed Weapon (not including Bastard Sword or Dwarven Waraxe), your Ability Score bonus to damage improves to 2.5x the Ability Score you use for damage."
  • The Greater Two Handed Fighting Feat is now: "While Two-Handed Fighting: +20% additional Strikethrough Chance. You also gain a +6 Combat Style bonus to Melee Power while Two-Handed Fighting. While using a Two Handed Weapon (not including Bastard Sword or Dwarven Waraxe), your Ability Score bonus to damage improves to 3x the Ability Score you use for damage. "
  • The Perfect Two Handed Fighting Feat is now: "While Two-Handed Fighting: You gain +20% Strikethrough Chance. You also gain a +10 Combat Style bonus to Melee Power while Two-Handed Fighting. "
• Class Specific Feats
  
  • Druid's Wild Shape: Bear now allows you to Strikethrough as long as you are not in the Defensive Fighting stance. (This replaces its previous ability to use Glancing Blows). You can Strikethrough while moving in Bear Form.
  • Druid's Wild Shape: Dire Bear now allows you to Strikethrough as long as you are not in the Defensive Fighting stance. It also gains +20% Strikethrough Chance. (This replaces its previous ability to use Glancing Blows). You can Strikethrough while moving in Dire Bear Form.
  • The Natural Fighting Feat now grants +15% Strikethrough Chance per copy of the Feat (max 3) in addition to its other effects. This replaces its previous Glancing Blow bonus.
  • Cleric Feats: Greater Domain of Destruction now grants +5% Strikethrough Chance (replacing its previous Glancing Blow bonus)

Enhancements

• Artificer Enhancements
  
  • Each Tier of Hand and a Half Training now grants 2% Strikethrough Chance (replacing the previous Glancing Blow component).
• Barbarian Enhancements
  
  • Angry Arms now grants +1/3/5% Strikethrough Chance.
  • Mad Munitions now grants +1/3/5% Strikethrough Chance.
  • Focus Wide's on-Vorpal buff now grants 10% Strikethrough Chance in place of its previous Glancing Blow component.
• Ranger Enhancements
  
  • Dance of Death's buff now grants you the ability to Strikethrough with melee attacks regardless of Combat Style for the duration of the buff (10 seconds), and grants +50%/100%/200% Strikethrough Chance for the duration of the buff. These replace the previous component that allowed you to hit multiple targets directly. Cooldown remains at 15 seconds.
• Rogue Enhancements
  
  • Improved Glancing Blows has been renamed to "Improved Second Strikes", and now grants +3/6/10% Strikethrough Chance
  • Follow-Through's Tumble buff now grants +25% Strikethrough Chance (replacing its previous ability to hit additional targets)
• Racial Enhancements
  
  • All instances of Great Weapon Aptitude are now +1/3/5% Strikethrough Chance
  • Dwarven Axe Training 1 now grants +5% Strikethrough Chance while wielding a Dwarven Waraxe in addition to its other effects
  • Dwarven Axe Training 2 now grants +5% Strikethrough Chance while wielding a Dwarven Waraxe in addition to its other effects
  • Dwarven Axe Training 3 now grants +5% Strikethrough Chance while wielding a Dwarven Waraxe and grants you Dwarven Waraxe as a Favored Weapon in addition to its other effects
  • Dwarven Axe Training 4 now grants +10% Strikethrough Chance while wielding a Dwarven Waraxe and allows you to Strikethrough while moving while wielding a Dwarven Waraxe in addition to its other effects.

Miscallaneous

• Fury of the Wild Destiny Enhancements
  
  • Malicious Weapons now grants +1/3/5% Strikethrough Chance.
  • Wild Weapons now grants +1/3/5% Strikethrough Chance.
  • While Unbridled Fury is active, you gain a +100% bonus to Strikethrough Chance (replacing the previous Glancing Blow component).
• Items
  
  • The One Against Many 3-piece Filigree set now grants +5% Strikethrough Bonus (replacing the previous Chance at Glancing Blows).

Conclusion: Strikethrough will help give THF it's own unique niche as an AoE focused melee combat style. We hope you enjoy it when you check it out in-game!

Known Issues

• Perfect Two Handed Fighting doesn't currently grant any Melee Power
• Tactical Feats are not playing their special animations currently. They use base attack animations.
• Human Males are not currently playing the first two attack animations in the non-quarterstaff two handed attack chain.

Bug Fixes Since Preview 1

• Druid Bears and Dire Bears now properly Strikethrough on their attacks.
• Most single-target special attacks should allow you to Strikethrough, hitting two to three targets.
  
  • Smite Evil has been modified to allow Strikethrough.
  • Exalted Smite has been modified to allow Strikethrough.
  • Hamstring has been modified to allow Strikethrough.
  • Sap has been modified to allow Strikethrough.
  • Slicing Blow has been modified to allow Strikethrough.
  • Sunder has been modified to allow Strikethrough.
  • Improved Sunder has been modified to allow Strikethrough.
  • Trip has been modified to allow Strikethrough.
  • Improved Trip has been modified to allow Strikethrough.
  • Stunning Blow has been modified to allow Strikethrough.

[Fauxknight]

I see more damage while THF to make up for their loss of glancing blows against a single target, but bears (and bastard sword/dwarven waraxe) don't seem to be addressed here, they are still taking an outright single target damage loss with these changes...and they still get that overall multitarget damage loss except when fighting precisely 2 mobs. There are literally no changes for non-THF glancing blow users in this newer update compared to the last one.

[SerPounce]

I see more damage while THF to make up for their loss of glancing blows against a single target, but bears (and bastard sword/dwarven waraxe) don't seem to be addressed here, they are still taking an outright single target damage loss with these changes...and they still get that overall multitarget damage loss except when fighting precisely 2 mobs.

And bear attacks (eg great maul) aren’t on the list of special stacks that strike through. And strike though is pretty limited for them also sine they get less per feat and there’s no perfect natural fighting.

[xTethx]

So bears and bsword/daxe users get shafted on the x3 modifier? Also bears cant benefit from Perfect two handed fighting strike thru %?

[J-mann]

Looks a tiny bit better (ar least you fixed st damage to not be a dps loss), but your base strike through is still too low and the cost for it in enhancements is insane. Needing perfect 2hf to reliably hit 2 targets is just plain stupid or JPS. The feats should START at 50% plus 50% per feat. The enhancements should be 1 ap for 5% at least 3 for 5 is ridiculously overpriced. Also any bugs to cleaves so that they function like everything else in the game or are they still stuck in trash tier?

[Assassination]

Please give these two weapons something. I just played a pure Figther Kensei/Vanguard, 41 pts Kensei, 31 pts Vanguard. I went with the bastard sword. This is an awful build style and needs some serious help. They may not get all the boosts that THF gets, but they need something. Without some help it's a flavor build, a bad flavor....

[Ballrus]

OK, 3x stat mod to bswd/daxes plus a shield is too much.
But, if possible make these weapons benefit at least from the first feat (2x stat mod).

S&B are losing single target damage here.

[SpartanKiller13]

Alright, so what it seems like is most THF builds can expect 105-125% Strikethrough chance at cap? So basically THF is optimized towards fighting two enemies, no more no less? When you use Unbridled Fury it goes up to three enemies, no more no less - for the duration? Full investment might get you another 30-50%, so let's say 2.5 enemies? Huh.

Seems odd that Tempest w/TWF is better at hitting groups than THF.

[Ballrus]

And, Fighter Kensei special attacks apply ST?

[Captain_Wizbang]

Out of curiosity, what did your testing show for GS & GA users to benefit from glancing blows to strikethrough?

Without me testing with my own toons, this seems like a slight nerf to overall damage.

[Monkey_Archer]

I'm really struggling to see the bright side of these changes. Sure, Strikethrough might be more interesting and useful than glancing blows (especially for leveling), but holistically this all seems like a step backwards.

-Dwarvern axe/Bastard Sword is getting straight nerfed with no compensation.
-Non-crit based effects builds will likely either lose single target dps or barely break even with live numbers (AKA still significantly behind their TWF/SWF counterparts)
-The new reworked KOTC has no synergy with THF now (losing all the bonus dice on glancing blows)
-Kensai/Barbarian builds might actually be over-buffed (don't quote me on this, but its possible)
-Don't get me started on the animation changes.. (to be fair I won't comment until I've tested this)

Is the goal here to make THF the style choice for brain-dead barbarians only? (not that there's anything wrong with brain-dead barbarians ) Seriously though, I don't understand why these changes seem to be focused on providing the already best performing THF builds (Kensai/Barbs) with a massive buff, but leaving everything else behind (or even nerfed).

[Arkantios]

• Smite Evil has been modified to allow Strikethrough.
• Exalted Smite has been modified to allow Strikethrough.
• Hamstring has been modified to allow Strikethrough.
• Sap has been modified to allow Strikethrough.
• Slicing Blow has been modified to allow Strikethrough.
• Sunder has been modified to allow Strikethrough.
• Improved Sunder has been modified to allow Strikethrough.
• Trip has been modified to allow Strikethrough.
• Improved Trip has been modified to allow Strikethrough.
• Stunning Blow has been modified to allow Strikethrough.[/COLOR]

Regarding these fixes/modifications; I know certain things have been asked in the last thread but I'm not sure if they were taken notice of? So, I was curious if the following were allowed to benefit from Strikethrough:

• Assassinate
• Improved Feint
• Executioners Strike/Shot (ShadowDancer)

[LurkingVeteran]

Most single-target special attacks should allow you to Strikethrough, hitting two to three targets.

Forget everything else in the patch, this is huge. Spontanously, I like it, gives THF some badly needed CC already for lower levels. It might make DoD even more amazing though, 5x stunning blow/trip. At this point I wonder if not all combat styles should be given some strike-through, with THF and DoD just getting 50-100% more.

[Ausdoerrt]

Rogue Enhancements
Follow-Through's Tumble buff now grants +25% Strikethrough Chance (replacing its previous ability to hit additional targets)

So we're down from "two targets per hit", i.e. 100% strikethrough, to 25%? Why? Acrobats aren't exactly top dps builds, and this is a capstone, it's supposed to be powerful!

Racial Enhancements
Dwarven Axe Training 1 now grants +5% Strikethrough Chance while wielding a Dwarven Waraxe in addition to its other effects
Dwarven Axe Training 2 now grants +5% Strikethrough Chance while wielding a Dwarven Waraxe in addition to its other effects
Dwarven Axe Training 3 now grants +5% Strikethrough Chance while wielding a Dwarven Waraxe and grants you Dwarven Waraxe as a Favored Weapon in addition to its other effects
Dwarven Axe Training 4 now grants +10% Strikethrough Chance while wielding a Dwarven Waraxe and allows you to Strikethrough while moving while wielding a Dwarven Waraxe in addition to its other effects.

What about bastard swords?

Also, why the nerf to one-and-a-half weapons? S&B is probably the weakest style right now...

[pelaaja]

Disclaimer

Everything seen on the preview server, Lamannia, is not final and is subject to change or removal before live release.

Feats

• Combat Style Feats
• The Two Handed Fighting Feat is now: "While Two-Handed Fighting: +20% Strikethrough Chance. You can now Strikethrough while moving. You also gain a +2 Combat Style bonus to Melee Power while Two-Handed Fighting. For the purpose of this feat, you are considered to be Two-Handed Fighting while using a Two-Handed Melee Weapon (not including Handwraps). You are also considered to be Two-Handed Fighting while wielding a Bastard Sword or Dwarven Waraxe in your main hand and a Shield, Orb, Rune Arm, or Nothing in your off-hand. You are not considered to be Two-Handed Fighting while in Wild Shape. While using a Two Handed Weapon (not including Bastard Sword or Dwarven Waraxe), your Ability Score bonus to damage improves to 2x the Ability Score you use for damage. "
• The Improved Two Handed Fighting Featis now: "While Two-Handed Fighting: +20% additional Strikethrough Chance. You also gain a +4 Combat Style bonus to Melee Power while Two-Handed Fighting. While using a Two Handed Weapon (not including Bastard Sword or Dwarven Waraxe), your Ability Score bonus to damage improves to 2.5x the Ability Score you use for damage."
• The Greater Two Handed Fighting Feat is now: "While Two-Handed Fighting: +20% additional Strikethrough Chance. You also gain a +6 Combat Style bonus to Melee Power while Two-Handed Fighting. While using a Two Handed Weapon (not including Bastard Sword or Dwarven Waraxe), your Ability Score bonus to damage improves to 3x the Ability Score you use for damage. "
• The Perfect Two Handed Fighting Feat is now: "While Two-Handed Fighting: You gain +20% Strikethrough Chance. You also gain a +10 Combat Style bonus to Melee Power while Two-Handed Fighting. "

Yeah I think you're still missing the point of this.

If these are your plans, just revert back to glancing blows. THF can't even hit more than two targets with the whole PTHF line, are you kidding?

Double the chances of these feats (including THF without feat), add it up to 2x ability modifier in GTHF then we might be talking something more productive.

[J-mann]

Yeah I think you're still missing the point of this.

If these are your plans, just revert back to glancing blows. THF can't even hit more than two targets with the whole PTHF line, are you kidding?

Double the chances of these feats (including THF without feat), add it up to 2x ability modifier in GTHF then we might be talking something more productive.

Been saying the same thing. Aoe style that cannot even consistently hit 2 until cap lololol. Also cleaves that are still useless because they do not scale.

[Zretch]

Thank you very much for considering the damage scaling throughout the heroic levels rather than just at Greater Two Handed Fighting.

[dragons1ayer74]

Just did some testing and have to say with a two-handed sword on my paladin the system feels underwhelming. This was only with a level 7 (Feats: Power Attack, THF, ITHF, GTHF) but did some tests on live and then similar tests on Lamannia. I will likely try to test another higher level character but it seems to be very similar single target...wasn't two handed weapon supposed to get a bump up this update?

[LurkingVeteran]

Looks a tiny bit better (ar least you fixed st damage to not be a dps loss), but your base strike through is still too low and the cost for it in enhancements is insane. Needing perfect 2hf to reliably hit 2 targets is just plain stupid or JPS. The feats should START at 50% plus 50% per feat. The enhancements should be 1 ap for 5% at least 3 for 5 is ridiculously overpriced. Also any bugs to cleaves so that they function like everything else in the game or are they still stuck in trash tier?

I agree that it looks a bit low, not sure what is appropriate though. Their dilemma is that if they make Strike-through hit too many, their single target damage will have to suffer vs. TWF/SWF.

[Stravix]

Just did some testing and have to say with a two-handed sword on my paladin the system feels underwhelming. This was only with a level 7 (Feats: Power Attack, THF, ITHF, GTHF) but did some tests on live and then similar tests on Lamannia. I will likely try to test another higher level character but it seems to be very similar single target...wasn't two handed weapon supposed to get a bump up this update?

You, at the very least, do not have GTHF as a lvl 7 char