Temple of Elemental Evil: Round 1 Feedback

[Cordovan]

Just wanted to thank everyone for giving us some great feedback so far. Much appreciated!

[nibel]

We were told that this quest would be really long with lots of replay value (as it **** well better should be with just one quest in two parts for an update) AND we were told hard would be made hard and elite truly elite.

Based on that it saddens me to see that people get to the end fight of the second part without much trouble even on EE and that the quest is being finished within the first day(s) at all on HE / EE. I had high hopes that noone would have even made it past part 1 yet because the quest was hard as hell with many things that had to be figured out and prepared for.

/sadface

If it makes you happy, I played it with a fresh level 28 with randomly assorted named gear from the dojo, on epic normal, for about 4 hours, and could not finish the air temple in part 1 because the place was too huge, and I was exploring every corner. I must have found around 10 named monsters, and racked up the 750 kill count easily.

This quest is easily 3 or 4 times larger than Haunted Halls (No idea about part 2), and looks like it has more randomization (no more rushing to the crests, then named), so it will have more replay value.

[mikarddo]

If it makes you happy, I played it with a fresh level 28 with randomly assorted named gear from the dojo, on epic normal, for about 4 hours, and could not finish the air temple in part 1 because the place was too huge, and I was exploring every corner. I must have found around 10 named monsters, and racked up the 750 kill count easily.

This quest is easily 3 or 4 times larger than Haunted Halls (No idea about part 2), and looks like it has more randomization (no more rushing to the crests, then named), so it will have more replay value.

It helps a little, thanks.

I still hope for
- large random puzzles that need solving
- traps that matter
- storylines down the sideways so you dont just explore to find a room that looks like all the other rooms.
- placeholder "named" mobs at the end of significant sideways to show that here a real named could spawn (and dont make it too easy to just zerg scout to check if the name or the PH is there)
- hard to be decently hard (something like elite is for most other quests now) and elite to be beyond what I can handle so it will challenge the top dogs and give me something to aspire for. Make hard and elite actually mean just that!
- fun and desireable loot of which some does not add vertical power but either adds horizontally or adds flavor (my personal favorite would be cosmetic/illusion <race> items).
- And this loot to be rare and require running the quest for many, many hours/days/weeks/months.

Sofar from what I am reading admittingly rather than playing it sounds like the place is mostly huge but somewhat lacking in variation. Hopefully I am wrong.

[Vargouille]

Some balance changes being worked on, amongst lots of smaller changes & bug fixes as well:

• Increased monster strength on Hard and Elite, mostly increasing how threatening they are (not increasing hitpoints).
• Fixing many ranged attacks being far too weak (such as dealing single digit damage on Epic Elite).
• Bumped up most of the Heroic Normal CR4 monsters to higher CRs (at all levels of difficulty).
• Slag now heals from fire damage, and some similar changes.
• Some monsters can now inflict Brittleskin, a small & brief but stacking reduction to Physical Resistance.
• Romag is less of a pushover.
• Reducing hitpoints of some elementals and other enemies who are too much "sack-of-hitpoints".
• Fixed some enemies who preferred meleeing or even throwing arrows or daggers despite that nice bow or crossbow in their hands.

[Qezuzu]

Some balance changes being worked on, amongst lots of smaller changes & bug fixes as well:

• Increased monster strength on Hard and Elite, mostly increasing how threatening they are (not increasing hitpoints).
• Fixing many ranged attacks being far too weak (such as dealing single digit damage on Epic Elite).
• Bumped up most of the Heroic Normal CR4 monsters to higher CRs (at all levels of difficulty).
• Slag now heals from fire damage, and some similar changes.
• Some monsters can now inflict Brittleskin, a small & brief but stacking reduction to Physical Resistance.
• Romag is less of a pushover.
• Reducing hitpoints of some elementals and other enemies who are too much "sack-of-hitpoints".
• Fixed some enemies who preferred meleeing or even throwing arrows or daggers despite that nice bow or crossbow in their hands.

Is there going to be any change to their saves? Near-max DC Assassins (~75) are getting really high fail rates, along with DC casters.

[Vargouille]

Is there going to be any change to their saves? Near-max DC Assassins (~75) are getting really high fail rates, along with DC casters.

Right, good reminder!

"Weak" saves for most of the monsters have been reduced significantly. A few monsters have had their "class" changed behind the scenes to change which saves are weak, especially for some of the more common monsters who appear in large numbers. Monsters with strong Fortitude saves are probably still going to remain equally as problematic on Epic Elite for Assassinate in particular (but there's some individual changes being made, again, to try to diversify enemies).

[Wizza]

Some balance changes being worked on, amongst lots of smaller changes & bug fixes as well:

• Increased monster strength on Hard and Elite, mostly increasing how threatening they are (not increasing hitpoints).
• Fixing many ranged attacks being far too weak (such as dealing single digit damage on Epic Elite).
• Bumped up most of the Heroic Normal CR4 monsters to higher CRs (at all levels of difficulty).
• Slag now heals from fire damage, and some similar changes.
• Some monsters can now inflict Brittleskin, a small & brief but stacking reduction to Physical Resistance.
• Romag is less of a pushover.
• Reducing hitpoints of some elementals and other enemies who are too much "sack-of-hitpoints".
• Fixed some enemies who preferred meleeing or even throwing arrows or daggers despite that nice bow or crossbow in their hands.

Where are the Saves changes? Pretty much EVERYONE is complaining about those.

With "some elementals", do you mean Water, Fire and Air ones as well?
Is the Goristro Barbarian included too?

That Brittleskin debuff sounds nicein theory, will see how small and brief the debuff is thou.

We are on the good road.

[Wizza]

Right, good reminder!

"Weak" saves for most of the monsters have been reduced significantly. A few monsters have had their "class" changed behind the scenes to change which saves are weak, especially for some of the more common monsters who appear in large numbers. Monsters with strong Fortitude saves are probably still going to remain equally as problematic on Epic Elite for Assassinate in particular (but there's some individual changes being made, again, to try to diversify enemies).

This is not in place yet, right?

[Seikojin]

It helps a little, thanks.

I still hope for
- large random puzzles that need solving
- traps that matter
- storylines down the sideways so you dont just explore to find a room that looks like all the other rooms.
- placeholder "named" mobs at the end of significant sideways to show that here a real named could spawn (and dont make it too easy to just zerg scout to check if the name or the PH is there)
- hard to be decently hard (something like elite is for most other quests now) and elite to be beyond what I can handle so it will challenge the top dogs and give me something to aspire for. Make hard and elite actually mean just that!
- fun and desireable loot of which some does not add vertical power but either adds horizontally or adds flavor (my personal favorite would be cosmetic/illusion <race> items).
- And this loot to be rare and require running the quest for many, many hours/days/weeks/months.

Sofar from what I am reading admittingly rather than playing it sounds like the place is mostly huge but somewhat lacking in variation. Hopefully I am wrong.

Regarding puzzles:
I too would like some puzzles in the quest, but I doubt there are any since by this time, they would be in place to a degree (may not be working, but the moving parts would be there).

[Rys]

I still hope for
- large random puzzles that need solving
- traps that matter

Regarding puzzles:
I too would like some puzzles in the quest, but I doubt there are any since by this time, they would be in place to a degree (may not be working, but the moving parts would be there).

Yes for puzzles and moar traps, please.

[Monkey-Boy]

Right, good reminder!

"Weak" saves for most of the monsters have been reduced significantly. A few monsters have had their "class" changed behind the scenes to change which saves are weak, especially for some of the more common monsters who appear in large numbers. Monsters with strong Fortitude saves are probably still going to remain equally as problematic on Epic Elite for Assassinate in particular (but there's some individual changes being made, again, to try to diversify enemies).

The CR 54 humans have significantly better fort saves than CR58 Orcs in Gianthold. The class didn't appear to matter.

i don't mind some mobs being tougher, even max-DC (77, close to max) I shouldn't be able to finger a Hezrou without debuffing. But a CR54 HUMAN should die, based on what happens EVERY OTHER QUEST IN THE GAME.

Looking forward to testing the next round.

[Thar]

Right, good reminder!

"Weak" saves for most of the monsters have been reduced significantly. A few monsters have had their "class" changed behind the scenes to change which saves are weak, especially for some of the more common monsters who appear in large numbers. Monsters with strong Fortitude saves are probably still going to remain equally as problematic on Epic Elite for Assassinate in particular (but there's some individual changes being made, again, to try to diversify enemies).

problomatic or reasonable? if problematic is 5-20% of the time your necro dc hits, then it's a fail and casters will want/need improvements. as a pm or other caster you can only hit so high a DC and can't expect to cast things over and over vs sorc with sla burning it down in a few cheap slas.

[slarden]

Is there going to be any change to their saves? Near-max DC Assassins (~75) are getting really high fail rates, along with DC casters.

Max assassinate for an assassin is now 84 although it would take some unacceptable gimping to bring it that high.

[slarden]

Right, good reminder!

"Weak" saves for most of the monsters have been reduced significantly. A few monsters have had their "class" changed behind the scenes to change which saves are weak, especially for some of the more common monsters who appear in large numbers. Monsters with strong Fortitude saves are probably still going to remain equally as problematic on Epic Elite for Assassinate in particular (but there's some individual changes being made, again, to try to diversify enemies).

Will the title of the enemy and the fort saves line up if this is being done behind the scenes? Or will groups of enemies with the same name have fort saves that vary greatly?

[die]

As for those of you asking for puzzles.. I am not a big fan of puzzles like we have in prove your worth, I am a big fan of puzzles like in the game ICe wind dale. with runes, or colors. And as for traps I love traps. I just hate the once we have been creating since THE eveeningstar expansion.. spell wards and bear traps are lazy and no fun? fREAKING bear traps just lying around every where? who comes up with this **** ole'.. INSANITY!!

[Aelonwy]

I have an odd question, about the time Lords of Dust was introduced, the auto-granted feats Wilderness Lore, Arcane Lore, and Religious Lore were added to the game to add some optional complexity to quests where a PC with one of those feats received an otherwise unavailable option to complete an encounter or solve an issue; why have these feats and their purpose been seemingly abandoned? Especially, in the face of so many people asking for things to be added to the game to encourage cooperation?

It would seem to me that in a TEMPLE of ELEMENTAL EVIL all three of these feats could be used in one optional or another to add something more to the quest than just your average hack and slash.

Once again it feels like you guys added something to the game (in the form of these Lore feats) and then promptly forgot they existed and should ever be used again.

[arkonas]

I have an odd question, about the time Lords of Dust was introduced, the auto-granted feats Wilderness Lore, Arcane Lore, and Religious Lore were added to the game to add some optional complexity to quests where a PC with one of those feats received an otherwise unavailable option to complete an encounter or solve an issue; why have these feats and their purpose been seemingly abandoned? Especially, in the face of so many people asking for things to be added to the game to encourage cooperation?

It would seem to me that in a TEMPLE of ELEMENTAL EVIL all three of these feats could be used in one optional or another to add something more to the quest than just your average hack and slash.

Once again it feels like you guys added something to the game (in the form of these Lore feats) and then promptly forgot they existed and should ever be used again.

im assuming you didn't see the wilderness lore in mask of deception optional.

[Gratch]

New splash screen says it's Update 25: Reign of Elemental Evil.

Luckily the devs will be updating it so we don't have to rename it Update 25: Reign-Man

Whoever you've got putting out annoyance-bear-traps... put them on not-traps and have them take their beartraps with them. Put the HH trap dev on some kill-players-w/o-a-detrapper or serious jump and pedestal skills. Trap hallways also needs to go upwards so you can't just rocket-boot/fvs/monk/store-shoot past them.

[Delacroix21]

2 complete runs= 1 with a 4 man party and next solo (yes soloed Zugg's!)


My thoughts=

I like it, and yet I kinda feel like the dungeon elements are a bit bland and boring. It definitely needs more torch scones on the walls, some tapestries etc. The red named Elementals in part 1 also have TOO much hp, my guess in 600,000+ based off time it takes me to kill EE Trackers trap giant. I wasnt really dazzled by anything (except maybe the mushroom area), the dungeon and elemental nodes were preety bland. I hope ToEE gets a face lift before live. I want to be wowed by what I see.

[Powerhungry]

but the red named earth elementals in part 1 had way to many hp - on EN it took me over 5 minutes to beat them down. (on a well geared completionist that soloed Dagan at level 20).
However, the red named cleric they were guarding (Komag?) had way to few hp - under 3k. I killed him in 2 hits.
4 massive hp bags followed be a gimpy cleric.
He should have a massive arsenal of spells to use and enough hp and self healing to get a chance to use them. Blade barrier, greater command, flame strike, cometfall, firestorm, energy drain, implosion, destruction, etc...
Rather than making the enemies 'tougher' by giving them hundreds of thousands of hp, make them craftier and smarter. Give them resources and let them use them. 4 red named earth elementals we have to kill. OK. so we have to solve some puzzles in the area or the just respawn. or we have to break/purify every altar/vase/urn, etc.. They have to be prepped and separated (a la Shroud part 2). they have to be prepped separated and killed in their own area (random each time thus they'd have to have names to tell them apart - even thing 1 and thing 2 or red fish blue fish). So many ways to make the player have to be smarter rather than just develop carpal tunnel from mouse clicking 80,000 times to kill and elemental.
Just my opinion on the little bit I saw.
Also the red named medusa's stone gaze was almost instant from the time the visual/audio tell tale was activated. Might need to increase the time from cue to activation just a bit (or shorten its duration).