Ranged builds are too good so we add melee power... now we add....

[maddong]

Ranged builds are too good so we add melee power... now we add an equal amount of ranged power back?

Aren't we going to just be back where we were with people using Improved Precise Shot double shuriken expertise throwers, 10k stars/manyshot IPS bursts, or repeaters with manyshot IPS bursts?

Are the level 30 dungeons on epic elite going to require ranged builds now?

We are just causing rampant inflation which is requiring things like Champions....

[jaggyjag]

Ranged builds are too good so we add melee power... now we add an equal amount of ranged power back?

Aren't we going to just be back where we were with people using Improved Precise Shot double shuriken expertise throwers, 10k stars/manyshot IPS bursts, or repeaters with manyshot IPS bursts?

Are the level 30 dungeons on epic elite going to require ranged builds now?

We are just causing rampant inflation which is requiring things like Champions....

I see your point, I wish the dev team had just stepped in on the monchers earlier. Instead of foisting this whole melee power and ranged power nonsense on the game. It was almost as bad as the unneeded Hamp revamp.

That said, the sources of ranged power thus far are greatly slanted towards the Melee toons, in heroic the means to aquire ranged power is near non-existent, and even as it is possibly added in the coming class passes it will still trail far behind Melee power, for one reason the absence of Feats/fighting styles that can increase ranged power. And in comparison the ED that are not themed for ranged power will provide little in comparison to melee.

I think the entire "power" system was a enormous mistake, motivated by vanity of some individuals who wanted to stamp their name on the game. But be that as it may we are all stuck with it now.

[blerkington]

Hi,

I'm glad to see ranged power added, because ranged builds have fallen behind somewhat.

What I'm not terribly happy about is that, for archery anyway, the two strongest destiny choices seem like they are going to remain on top by a considerable margin.

I don't think the small differences between what is available from destiny cores will make up for the mechanical superiority of FOTW and LD compared to the other destinies.

Seeing some maths would be interesting, as would be getting a dev comment on what the design goals of the changes are and whether or not they believe they are being achieved.

Thanks.

PS: Jaggyjag, I agree somewhat with your post. But now the problem is not getting left behind when there is so much buffing going on in other areas.

[Firewall]

Ranged power is still far behind melee power.

Not only are there no feats granting ranged power but also almost all enhancements are scaling with melee power only (Venomed Blades with 200% melee power, Sneak Attacks with 100% melee power,...) and still ranged power is not boosting the things it should - e.g. Shiradi procs (the one epic destiny specifically themed for ranged builds) which only scale with spellpower but not with ranged power (even though you cannot get ranged power as high as spellpower anyway).

The reason most ranged builds like monkchers are so powerful are crit mechanics in combination with slayer arrow and manyshot and only because Furyshot exploits bugs in various feats and epic destiny enhancements that if they were fixed would bring the DPS back to reasonable amounts.

I'm glad they added ranged power finally to make up for the now virtually indestructible melee builds with no weaknesses like Paladins which have high (AOE)DPS, top damage mitigation, top healing and great saves.

[Severlin]

Melee Power and Ranged Power serve two purposes:
~ Help static abilities scale into Epic levels and scale with gear.
~ Give us a gearing statistic that will scale many of a character's abilities more equally.

While we added Melee Power to the game first because melee needed to be looked at first, the plan was always to follow up with a Ranged Power pass as well.

Sev~

[Livmo]

Melee Power and Ranged Power serve two purposes:
~ Help static abilities scale into Epic levels and scale with gear.
~ Give us a gearing statistic that will scale many of a character's abilities more equally.

While we added Melee Power to the game first because melee needed to be looked at first, the plan was always to follow up with a Ranged Power pass as well.

Sev~

Sounds great. Please add ranged power 4 to Fury of the Wild

[Severlin]

Replying to some others:

~ Some changes to some of the feats to better distribute MP and RP is coming.
~ Melee and Ranged Power additions are not meant to serve as a pass for the Epic Destinies.


Sev~

[Severlin]

Sounds great. Please add ranged power 4 to Fury of the Wild

Fury of the Wild is the platform on which many burst builds in the game are built. It doesn't need as much Ranged Power as other destinies because it already has a lot of functionality that boosts existing abilities.

Sev~

[Rys]

Fury of the Wild is the platform on which many burst builds in the game are built. It doesn't need as much Ranged Power as other destinies because it already has a lot of functionality that boosts existing abilities.

Sev~

Have you done any DPS comparison (bow and shuri users) between LD and Fury with a new ranged power?

[Livmo]

Fury of the Wild is the platform on which many burst builds in the game are built. It doesn't need as much Ranged Power as other destinies because it already has a lot of functionality that boosts existing abilities.

Sev~

But another good reason to add range power to Fury?

I could do more damage with my repeater.

Shoot I treid.

C'mon rangers help us arties out. I know you're lurking. Get Fury some ranged love.

[Delacroix21]

Fury of the Wild is the platform on which many burst builds in the game are built. It doesn't need as much Ranged Power as other destinies because it already has a lot of functionality that boosts existing abilities.

Sev~

That is not why, and this will also hurt crossbow builds from mechanic. Crossbows are to slow for shiradi, to slow to keep up blitz, and too slow to make the 6d6 sneak attack from shadow dancer matter. That only leaves them fury of the wild.


Shiradi is a caster ED or thrower ED, if you want it to be viable for all ranged then up the proc chance for bows to 14% and non repeating crossbows 21%.

[blerkington]

Have you done any DPS comparison (bow and shuri users) between LD and Fury with a new ranged power?

Hi,

It's good to see some dev communication in this thread, thanks for that.

Rys' question is a very pertinent one. I'm interested in seeing a math based comparison.

Thanks.

[Qhualor]

Fury of the Wild is the platform on which many burst builds in the game are built. It doesn't need as much Ranged Power as other destinies because it already has a lot of functionality that boosts existing abilities.

Sev~

I agree with this, but we shall see what happens after all the pleas for more ranged power in FOTW and what is done over the next few months.

[Qhualor]

That is not why, and this will also hurt crossbow builds from mechanic. Crossbows are to slow for shiradi, to slow to keep up blitz, and too slow to make the 6d6 sneak attack from shadow dancer matter. That only leaves them fury of the wild.


Shiradi is a caster ED or thrower ED, if you want it to be viable for all ranged then up the proc chance for bows to 14% and non repeating crossbows 21%.

ive never played a crossbow build and have no intention to play one either, although I have a lot of named crossbows saved on a bank toon for some reason, I don't know why. with no experience with them, just an observer, I wont go into any in depth discussion over them.

I have watched crossbow builds and particularly mechanics that use them in action and it does seem quite slow. I don't think a proper fix to crossbows is to mess with the EDs for improvements, although I could see maybe something in Shiradi and Shadowdancer could get add ons for crossbow users to increase attack/reload speed or something. the way I see it, if the damage is high enough and comparable to other ranged bow users on an even basis, than the attack speed balances it out. if its not comparable than maybe something in the mechanic and arty trees as well as Shiradi and Shadowdancer needs some crossbow love.

[Wizza]

Fury of the Wild is the platform on which many burst builds in the game are built. It doesn't need as much Ranged Power as other destinies because it already has a lot of functionality that boosts existing abilities.

Sev~

Oh right, because Blitz needed 3 Melee Power in the core. To use your same words, "Blitz was the platform on which many builds in the game are built and running. It didn't need as much as Melee Power as other destinies because it already has a lot of functionality that boosts existing abilities". YET WE ADDED 3 MP PER CORE AND BUFFED IT TO GRANT PRR AND SUSTAIN IN THROUGH BOSSES FIGHTS.

You just hate archers, it's pretty clear. Giving more Ranged Power to Destinies like Fatesinger, US, DC, Primal Avatar and not the actual ED used by archers is just you being illogical and hating archers, nothing more and nothing less.

I think you should Buff Legendary Dreadnought even more and make it work with spells, because that is where we heading. One Epic Destiny to rule them all.

[Severlin]

It looks like Legendary Dreadnaught and Unyielding Sentinel got switched. We will fix that for the next Lamannia build. Good catch.

Sev~

[FestusHood]

Ranged power is still far behind melee power.

Not only are there no feats granting ranged power but also almost all enhancements are scaling with melee power only (Venomed Blades with 200% melee power, Sneak Attacks with 100% melee power,...) and still ranged power is not boosting the things it should - e.g. Shiradi procs (the one epic destiny specifically themed for ranged builds) which only scale with spellpower but not with ranged power (even though you cannot get ranged power as high as spellpower anyway).

The problem with shiradi is that spellpower only boosts the procs if they come from spells. If ranged procs could also be increased by spellpower it would be a lot more appealing.

[Wipey]

Few things :
Archery in Fury is great already. It sucks compared to barb or pally but that's problem with those classes being op garbage.
Blitz has always been ridiculous, from the start. Even more so now.
Everybody got what, 29+ Ranged power. I don't really know why, but so be it.

Imho Fury archer offers vastly different playstyle than any other build. Hard hitting, positioning dependent, "snipery". Superb against bosses and one shotting dangerous mobs. Pretty funny to see all these "easy button" comments, yet so many such builds are failing hard in the game.
If I wanted to play autoattack Blitzer, I'd play melees.

Shiradi or Shadowdancer still gonna suck.
Can't be serious about Sentinel.

[maddong]

I was very concerned when melee power was added to the game so I posted in a ranged thread because I thought too much melee power was being added....

Are the thrower builds still going to be viable with all melees getting a 70% damage boost? Maybe I'm over reacting to the proposed buffs since you guys are the ones actually playing the ranged builds.

The reason melees are getting the buff is that thrower builds are already that much better. It doesnt matter what a melee does if you layer multiple IPS instakills. You will still contribute. This game is all about layering. My next life will be interesting. I haven't layered DC and raw physical damage instakills before.

Only the absolute very best melee builds I've ever encountered on Khyber (maybe 3 in total I have played with) have ever kept pace at end game, in LD Blitzing, with my various thrower builds. Ditto Monkchers.

Some of that is player skill. People like Poppy and Maktruck have been able to, because they are built, geared, and most importantly played extremely well. But if the very best blitzing melee's today with 250% LD damage can't beat me on kills consistently, these changes will have little to no effect, since they are in effect keeping Blitz the same or making it slightly weaker. At the end of the day the power of the thrower build lies in IPS, and making sure you're always doing damaging more than 1 mob at a time until they're all dead. When there's 4 mobs to fight, you should be doing 2-400% DPS, which is more than a Blitzer. I'm talking about IPS, of course.

I think it just means thankfully I'll have less runs where I have 90 kills and everyone else has like 7.

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...28#post5394828

[Mryal]

It looks like Legendary Dreadnaught and Unyielding Sentinel got switched. We will fix that for the next Lamannia build. Good catch.

Sev~

Hi, Severlin.With this change i believe your ranged power distrubuiton is flawless.
While we are looking at ranged and EDs and ranged pass, would you be so kind of informing what is turbine's position on the fact that Bow is the only weapon that is able to get more than one adrenaline hit at once?
Thank you!