Temple of Elemental Evil: Round 1 Feedback

[Steelstar]

Earth temple Elementals. They are the ones dealing 200+ dmg and bypass Displacement. I will run more later to give exact confirmation.

Honestly, I don't remember the end fight ONE (why oneS? typo?) dealing more damage than the Earth temple ones. May have to run more later, maybe just my oversight.

Ah! Yes, typo, sorry. Still drinking coffee this morning.

[Eth]

I played thorugh part 2 on EE solo on my barb yesterday.

The mobs in the first part of part 2 (temple cultists or whatever) are all way to weak. This part really needs to be tweaked.

I had the air path.
Whoever thought hundreds of air mephits + air elementals + djinns + invisible stalkers + whisps is a funny combination, you are evil, truly evil.
This path was tricky in difficulty. Had to take most fights carefully. When I pulled 2 waves of mobs at once I died almost instantly.

The end fight was also very enjoyable. The 2 waves both had champion hezrous which hit like trucks.
Zuggtmoy herself didn't seem to dangerous. Hellball can hit hard, but the rest of the attacks didn't seem to bad.

[Wizza]

Ah! Yes, typo, sorry. Still drinking coffee this morning.

Also, I didn't see any significant debuff on the mobs in the End fight of part 1 when you dragged them into the opposite corner. Care to elaborate exactly how much that debuff is? I didn't see them taking more damage or even dealing less damage. But again, I've ran part 1 only twice.

[LightBear]

Did anyone else find the DoT ignoreable? It shouldn't be entirely ignoreable.

Probably just a level 28 with heavy shadow armor, MRR of over 200 and elemental resistances of over 60.

[Augon]

A lot of our high-level content right now also focuses on Undead, so we did intentionally try to not overdo them here.

Thank you very much. I am glad to have the chance to fight some things that are not Undead.

[Steelstar]

Probably just a level 28 with heavy shadow armor, MRR of over 200 and elemental resistances of over 60.

Heavy Shadow, sure - But the DOT is Bane damage, and MRR/Elemental Resists don't apply.

[mikarddo]

We were told that this quest would be really long with lots of replay value (as it **** well better should be with just one quest in two parts for an update) AND we were told hard would be made hard and elite truly elite.

Based on that it saddens me to see that people get to the end fight of the second part without much trouble even on EE and that the quest is being finished within the first day(s) at all on HE / EE. I had high hopes that noone would have even made it past part 1 yet because the quest was hard as hell with many things that had to be figured out and prepared for.

/sadface

[Augon]

We were told that this quest would be really long with lots of replay value (as it **** well better should be with just one quest in two parts for an update) AND we were told hard would be made hard and elite truly elite.

All of this is very subjective. Whether a quest has replay value depends on the player as much as the designer. I find the quests enjoyable, so I will be replaying them. Thus they have replay value to me. There is no way they could possibly create a quest or chain that no-one could run through on the first day and have it be enjoyable for most players. I would guess that most of the folks commenting on this thread are advanced players and do not reflect the majority of the player base. This is not a bad thing because the feedback Ive seen on this thread by the folks who have actually played these quests looks productive and can help the developer team improve on what they have.

It will probably come as a shock to a lot of advanced players that many people still find Heroic Elite Misery Peak a challenge that takes a very long time to run. Just as many less advanced players would find it unbelievable that anyone could solo EE CITW. That is the range of players that this development team is designing for.

Based on that it saddens me to see that people get to the end fight of the second part without much trouble even on EE and that the quest is being finished within the first day(s) at all on HE / EE. I had high hopes that noone would have even made it past part 1 yet because the quest was hard as hell with many things that had to be figured out and prepared for.

And btw, this is a feedback thread - a place to give productive feedback to the development team after running the quests. Have you actually even run these quests? If not, you should give it a go before giving feedback.

[mikarddo]

And btw, this is a feedback thread - a place to give productive feedback to the development team after running the quests. Have you actually even run these quests? If not, you should give it a go before giving feedback.

Stating that I am saddenes that the quests are so easily defeated even on EE is very much feedback. Unfortunately work and family has not allowed me to play the quests myself yet - but that does not exclude me from giving the feedback that I find it troublesome that "this quest will be much harder than what you have seen recently" translates into "we just ran through for the first time ever and had at most medium trouble winning".

I had really hoped that elite would take several tries and many, many deaths for the best players to complete the first time - even if that most likely means I wont be able to do so for a fairly long time. That would have given me something to actually aspire for.

As for the rest of your post - thats what normal and to a lesser degree hard difficulties are for. Notice how both your examples are about Elite which should infact be tough even for the better players yet isnt really. Notice also that we were told Hard and Elite would actually match those words better for these quests. Hopefully they will be made to do so before this goes live.

[Tinco]

I had really hoped that elite would take several tries and many, many deaths for the best players to complete the first time - even if that most likely means I wont be able to do so for a fairly long time. That would have given me something to actually aspire for.

That's simply not how 6-man-dungeons in DDO work and never have and in my opinion never should.

[Seikojin]

Stating that I am saddenes that the quests are so easily defeated even on EE is very much feedback. Unfortunately work and family has not allowed me to play the quests myself yet - but that does not exclude me from giving the feedback that I find it troublesome that "this quest will be much harder than what you have seen recently" translates into "we just ran through for the first time ever and had at most medium trouble winning".

I had really hoped that elite would take several tries and many, many deaths for the best players to complete the first time - even if that most likely means I wont be able to do so for a fairly long time. That would have given me something to actually aspire for.

As for the rest of your post - thats what normal and to a lesser degree hard difficulties are for. Notice how both your examples are about Elite which should infact be tough even for the better players yet isnt really. Notice also that we were told Hard and Elite would actually match those words better for these quests. Hopefully they will be made to do so before this goes live.

I have found EE and HE to both be easier than they should. I do not mind if a 6 man crew can take the quest, but I want it to be tough for a 6 man crew. And almost impossible to solo. Hence why there needs to be an array of aoe traps and snares. Placed traps in random locations, enemies that lay them, and are on patrol laying them.

Traps in high volume combat zones (in front of ballista is good), grease traps by every pit, combination traps where ocres are, and by the optional bosses and temple guardians. Also more demons. It is supposed to have demons and undead where humans are not.

[Seikojin]

The Part-1-end-fight Elementals or the Earth Temple Elementals? The endfight ones deal way more damage at the moment. (will clarify that in my post, thanks). If that damage is from the End Fight ones, I may bring the damage of the Temple ones up a bit closer.

Either way, we're aiming to reduce their HP.

Please do not reduce their HP. It provides incentive to charm them.

[Seikojin]

Regarding demons: Even if there aren't many in the module, there are ones at each node gate, which are not present in Lam. That is mainly what I feel is missing.

[Augon]

I have found EE and HE to both be easier than they should. I do not mind if a 6 man crew can take the quest, but I want it to be tough for a 6 man crew. And almost impossible to solo. Hence why there needs to be an array of aoe traps and snares. Placed traps in random locations, enemies that lay them, and are on patrol laying them.

Traps in high volume combat zones (in front of ballista is good), grease traps by every pit, combination traps where ocres are, and by the optional bosses and temple guardians. Also more demons. It is supposed to have demons and undead where humans are not.

Trap! that is something that is glaringly missing from these quests. The little pressure plate traps are weak and easily avoided - but honestly pointless to bother avoiding. As I said in another post, I never played the original PnP module, but even if it didn't have wicked traps - these two quests need some traps.

Is it too late to add a few creative traps that give a rogue a great reason to want to run these?

[Augon]

Please do not reduce their HP. It provides incentive to charm them.

The first time I ran this quest I got to the Earth Temple before finding the club. I thought these freakin Earth Elementals are way too tough. Then the next time, I went the other way and found that club - after reading the description, I couldn't get to the Temple fast enough. I assumed then that the Earth eles are as tough as they are to encourage and almost require us to get the club first.

Please do not nerf them - maybe make them meaner.

[Knockback]

Regarding incentives for exploration, I should mention that in the first dungeon you have a higher chance of encountering rares if you explore off the critical path. Plus there will be an optional you can only do by going off the beaten path.

[Vanhooger]

Did had a quick look on EN:

- Huge but mostly empty, bring your friendly warchanter or barbarbar for speed run
- No trap, apart from bear trap.
- Hp bag as always barbarbar/palpalpal, leave your caster at home
- Very few shrine don't bring your caster unless you like store pot fest
- Map missing exit point, hard to understand were you are
- Map clearing every time you change floor
- No good loot so far

Guess I have to wait another 3 month

[patang01]

Stating that I am saddenes that the quests are so easily defeated even on EE is very much feedback.(...)

Not to pick a fight, but unless you've ran the content it's not feedback at all. Helping Turbine by giving them feedback on what to improve etc is. After having played the content. So lets help Turbine do just that. But to the other persons comment - yes, most players are not like advanced with all the gear. Turbine still have to ensure that they create balanced content so it sells. Otherwise it's pointless. EE should be very difficult. But the idea that you want to see a lot of failure isn't going to accomplish anything. Because if the failures are due to massive HP bloat and damage bloat and there's no other recourse than to add high PRR builds as a result you get what we had after MOTU - most melee turning towards ranged and evasion.
We don't need that. What we need is stuff that can be dealt with tactically and not stuff that'll only lead to exploiter builds.

[Eth]

Regarding incentives for exploration, I should mention that in the first dungeon you have a higher chance of encountering rares if you explore off the critical path. Plus there will be an optional you can only do by going off the beaten path.

What about part 2? I don't really see XP as a great incentive to complete the other elemental paths.
I did earth and air so far. A lot of the siderooms where just fights that lead to a dead end, some had shrines.
Earth had an optional with a green dragon, which gave one chest. Didn't find any optional bosses in air.

I think something like an extra endchest after the Zuggtmoy fight should be the least you get for every extra gem you retrieved.

[Ausdoerrt]

We were told that this quest would be really long with lots of replay value (as it **** well better should be with just one quest in two parts for an update) AND we were told hard would be made hard and elite truly elite.

Based on that it saddens me to see that people get to the end fight of the second part without much trouble even on EE and that the quest is being finished within the first day(s) at all on HE / EE. I had high hopes that noone would have even made it past part 1 yet because the quest was hard as hell with many things that had to be figured out and prepared for.

/sadface

FWIW, while testing it took me several hours just to see the end of the adventure on at-level heroic normal - this while skipping lots of side-paths and optionals (so I maybe saw 30~40% of the quest, if even that). So there's definitely enough replay value just judging from the size of the maps - TOEE is definitely much, much larger than, say, the Heart of Madness update.

Regarding demons: Even if there aren't many in the module, there are ones at each node gate, which are not present in Lam. That is mainly what I feel is missing.

This. The fight for the gem in the water node (I can't bring myself to call it a "boss fight") was extremely tame and anti-climactic. Please give us some more Battle Royale's

Regarding incentives for exploration, I should mention that in the first dungeon you have a higher chance of encountering rares if you explore off the critical path. Plus there will be an optional you can only do by going off the beaten path.

That's good, looking forward to it.

And just in general, it feels disappointing when you spend, say, half an hour to explore what is obviously a side-wing of the Temple only to find a handful of regular mobs and some empty rooms. I'd suggest either upping the frequency of rare encounters, or adding explorer-like rewards with proper lore/description (since slayer-like kill counters don't quite tickle my fancy - and I guess anyone who's like me and likes to get all explorer points in all wilderness areas would agree).

Rewards like the altar that grants you significant combat bonuses is also a great idea - hoping to see more similar things in the future! Like maybe have the elemental gems grant special bonuses as they did in the module and its earlier adaptations.

I'd also second Eth on my feelings about/experience with the 2nd path and nodes.