Nerf SWF's 2x stat mod to damage down to 1.5x

[psykopeta]

my SWF toon use cleaves all the time. saying one fighting style is "typically" used for single vs. multi targets doesnt make sense. THe quests and mobs dont change based on what fighting style my character uses.

Glancing blows are hardly important.

SWF also provides attack speed and melee power. These are far more important and demonstrative than better glancing blows.

indeed, swf with bastard sword, quite common to blast through every quest

[Thar]

Gee if you want to complain about something, complain that TWF is behind the pack. No devs... another off hand proc doesn't make up for lack of speed, damage, and etc since your often are using light weapons.

Play a tempest ranger and then go back to your swf bard 1.5 damage and be amazed again...

[EllisDee37]

give it a rest. Its way out of balance and should be set back to where its supposed to be. and I DO have a SWF toon thats awesome right now. and ya know what. He'll be fine when he does a bit less damage too.

No joke. My level 16 swashbuckler is currently critting in the 290s on a 13-20. After the fix, that will drop down to the 270s. I likely wouldn't even notice. (I'll probably have TRed him into another build before the patch goes live.)

This will be a good nerf.

[EllisDee37]

Why did you adjust? The discussion regarding power differences between THF and SWF came down to THF'ing having more than just the 50% damage...it has glancing blows and works well with Cleaves. To have SWF compete (as SWF is typically used for single target fighting, and cleaves really slow down the attack animation so reduces dmg, so typically not used), the initial decision was to give it the 2x stat mod. <--if I remember right.

Once fixed, both THF and SWF get +10 melee power and +50% stat mod damage. So that's a wash.

THF gets 50% base damage for glancing blows (no crits) and 9% chance at weapon procs.
SWF gets +30% attack speed. (!!!)

SWF wins in a landslide.

[ToastyFred]

Glancing blows are hardly important.

ROFL!

Build your THF correctly and Glancing Blows add AT LEAST an additional 30-40% damage.

[EllisDee37]

ROFL!

Build your THF correctly and Glancing Blows add AT LEAST an additional 30-40% damage.

The better you build, the lower the % of your damage comes from glancing blows for the simple reason that glancing blows don't crit. If you aren't critting hard and often, you didn't build well.

[GWolfe]

The better you build, the lower the % of your damage comes from glancing blows for the simple reason that glancing blows don't crit. If you aren't critting hard and often, you didn't build well.

When I use the epic moment in Fury on my barb my glancing blows hit for >1200. So I guess you don't build THF well.

[Grailhawk]

Once fixed, both THF and SWF get +10 melee power and +50% stat mod damage. So that's a wash.

THF gets 50% base damage for glancing blows (no crits) and 9% chance at weapon procs.
SWF gets +30% attack speed. (!!!)

SWF wins in a landslide.

When I use the epic moment in Fury on my barb my glancing blows hit for >1200. So I guess you don't build THF well.

Unless you have Manyshot you aren't built well if you are in Fury, and using a two handed weapon while using Fury Epic moment means you aren't playing very well either.

[EllisDee37]

When I use the epic moment in Fury on my barb my glancing blows hit for >1200. So I guess you don't build THF well.

At 10 procs every 300 seconds, that's a grand total of 40 dps.

Are you saying that 40 dps is a significant addition to your total dps?

[Grailhawk]

Facts are facts, try it sometime.

And SWF is still even after this nerf 100% better then THF.

Once fixed, both THF and SWF get +10 melee power and +50% stat mod damage. So that's a wash.

THF gets 50% base damage for glancing blows (no crits) and 9% chance at weapon procs.
SWF gets +30% attack speed. (!!!)

SWF wins in a landslide.

Can you understand this, at least?

[Postumus]

THF gets 50% base damage for glancing blows (no crits) and 9% chance at weapon procs.
SWF gets +30% attack speed. (!!!)

SWF wins in a landslide.

Against bosses or HP bags, yeah. Against groups of mobs, no.

[Postumus]

No joke. My level 16 swashbuckler is currently critting in the 290s on a 13-20. After the fix, that will drop down to the 270s. I likely wouldn't even notice. (I'll probably have TRed him into another build before the patch goes live.)

This will be a good nerf.

If you wouldn't even notice the nerf, why even have the nerf???

[EllisDee37]

If you wouldn't even notice the nerf, why even have the nerf???

I wouldn't notice it because I'm already way, way overpowered. Such an outlier clearly deserves a nerf. Barring a nerf, at an absolute minimum, it needs to have the extra non-WAI power corrected.

[Postumus]

I wouldn't notice it because I'm already way, way overpowered. Such an outlier clearly deserves a nerf. Barring a nerf, at an absolute minimum, it needs to have the extra non-WAI power corrected.

+20 more damage at L16 is a huge outlier now? I can't agree.

I'd rather they work on actual problems and bugs than tweaking this and possibly creating a cascade of other unwanted effects.

[EllisDee37]

+20 more damage at L16 is a huge outlier now? I can't agree.

I'd rather they work on actual problems and bugs than tweaking this and possibly creating a cascade of other unwanted effects.

Not the +20, the 155+ damage per swing at +45% speed. (+15% self-cast extended haste +30% gswf)

Correcting this would lower my damage from ~155 per swing to ~140 per swing, which is still an outlier when you factor in the +45% speed. What is that, 600 dps at level 16? It probably approaches 1000 when I click on my human damage and swashbuckler double strike action boosts.

[Postumus]

Correcting this would lower my damage from ~155 per swing to ~140 per swing, which is still an outlier when you factor in the +45% speed.

You're comparing apples and oranges... cherries and pineapples.

1 - It's not +45% speed. It's only +30%. EVERY build gets the other +15% from haste.

2- 10% more/less damage per swing is hardly reason to call for a nerf. In fact it is a very bad reason to call for a nerf.


Even with the +30% speed, the numbers you're using only come out to 45 more damage vs a character without SWF every 10 swings. At level 16. That's inconsequential.

[EllisDee37]

EVERY build gets the other +15% from haste.

No they don't. However, I'll agree that EVERY build gets +10% from alacrity, so fair point.

Note that I'm basing my SWF opinions on a swashbuckler, who gets a 13-20x3 crit profile. In fairness, I should be (mentally) comparing that to a paladin, who would get 15-20x3 with a run of the mill falchion, or 15-20x4 with a sword of shadows. (Which my THF paladin has; just haven't TRed him since he pulled it.)

In any case, I still maintain that +30% with crits is much bigger than +50% without.

[vryxnr]

wow.

I'm not going to get into the nerf vs don't nerf vs balance vs let me have my toys argument, there is far too much implied rage atm anyways. But one thing I will always advocate is descriptions matching what they do in game. If a description says X, I expect that item/ability to do X. If they don't match, one part needs to change in order to make them match. If that means the description changes, so be it. If that means the in game mechanic changes to match the description, so be it. So long as they match.

fyi (as far as I'm aware): the titles some posters have are not self chosen, they are bestowed by the devs/moderators/turbine to recognize the contributions those posters have made to the forum community.

[BoBoDaClown]

Well spotted by the OP.

[janave]

This is why these fixes have to make it into the earliest hotfix, so people do not believe this is the new "norm" buffs from space!, and then keep defending the broken systems with arguments like "hey but...i enjoy it." I think everyone would enjoy flat dps buffs, until the content is shamefully easy.

And of course who is loudest about the game is too easy? The people who jump the bandwagon of broken builds

Devs: Fix the broken OP stuff for yesterday, and save the trouble to explain yourself.