Nerf SWF's 2x stat mod to damage down to 1.5x

[Krelar]

Conclusion: These numbers make no sense at all. Something is definitely still screwy. (But I agree. Still getting [at least]double Damage from my Int modifier)

If your melee power was around 50 instead of 27 those numbers would make sense. You aren't in an epic destiny that give passive melee power are you?

[Monkey-Boy]

If your melee power was around 50 instead of 27 those numbers would make sense. You aren't in an epic destiny that give passive melee power are you?

What if SWFing was getting DOUBLE the value of melee power? That also would make sense.

heck, we've seen way bonkier bugs than that in DDO.

/Still flabergasted that my DPS went up by over 1000 by replacing my off-hand weapon with a friggin orb . . .

[Impaqt]

If your melee power was around 50 instead of 27 those numbers would make sense. You aren't in an epic destiny that give passive melee power are you?

Good point. I wish there was a place on the Character sheet that showed melee power... Grrrrr....

EDIT: Nope. Unyielding sentinel No Melee power there.

[Monkey-Boy]

Good point. I wish there was a place on the Character sheet that showed melee power... Grrrrr....

Was that sarcastic? because there is.

[Impaqt]

Was that sarcastic? because there is.

no. where is it hidden?

[Fedora1]

no. where is it hidden?

Next to your BAB box, 2nd picture thingy to the right.

[Impaqt]

Next to your BAB box, 2nd picture thingy to the right.

well how about that.....

This is interesting... Shows 51 Melee power...

Where is that extra 24 melee power coming from?
I have 1 primal and 1 divine Epic Past life,
2 Cleric and 1 fighter Heroic Past lives.

My L27 Monk is also showing 24 Melee power more than I expect.

GMoF Destiny. 7x3=21 but hes shows 45.

Where am I getting this 24 melee power from?
EDIT:

ah. Just looked up the wiki. GMoF and US both have+4 per Epic destiny that apparently is not in the destiny description.

[Impaqt]

What if SWFing was getting DOUBLE the value of melee power? That also would make sense.

heck, we've seen way bonkier bugs than that in DDO.

/Still flabergasted that my DPS went up by over 1000 by replacing my off-hand weapon with a friggin orb . . .

well. It actually needs Double Atribut Bonus AND 1.51 Melee power to make perfect sense.

Calcs: (40 Int)

5 base damage roll (Max 1.3[1d4])
1 Weapon Enh
1 Harper Enh
22 (1.5) INT
---
29 Damage
1.51 Melee Power
---
43.5

5 base damage roll
1 Weapon Enh
1 Harper Enh
30 (2.0) INT
---
37 Damage
1.51 Melee Power
---
55.87

50 Int

5 base damage roll
1 Weapon Enh
1 Harper Enh
30 (1.5) INT
---
37 Damage
1.51 Melee Power
---
55.87

5 base damage roll
1 Weapon Enh
1 Harper Enh
40 (2.0) INT
---
47 Damage
1.51 Melee Power
----
70.97


GSWF (With an orb in the off hand) is absolutely still giving 2x attribute damage.

[EllisDee37]

Give me a breakdown because I do not believe you.

You don't believe me that my crits went from 290s right before the patch to 250s right after? I assure you they did. Whatever the cause, though, is unconfirmed. My assumption is that the stated fix of lowering 2x ability mod to 1.5x is the reason, though again, my calculations before the patch indicated that the drop should have been to the 270s, not 250s. (Though just now I realize that my projected drop didn't include melee power, so it probably should have gone down to lower than 270s.)

[EllisDee37]

What's the simplest, most conclusive test? I'm happy to go do it (and post the video) if we come up with one. The idea would be fewest possible variables, biggest change in ability stat possible, and easiest to set up.

Strength-based iconic barbarian? Raging adds a ton of strength, right? Anything bigger? (Skaldic rage + rage spell means bards get an easy +6 strength toggle. Barbarian rage gives more than 6 str, yes?)

[Grailhawk]

What's the simplest, most conclusive test? I'm happy to go do it (and post the video) if we come up with one. The idea would be fewest possible variables, biggest change in ability stat possible, and easiest to set up.

Strength-based iconic barbarian? Raging adds a ton of strength, right? Anything bigger? (Skaldic rage + rage spell means bards get an easy +6 strength toggle. Barbarian rage gives more than 6 str, yes?)

To test if its a display issue or not they yes an Iconic SWF you don't even need to have a high STR (IMO the lower the better keep the math the simplest) try get a masterwork dagger (keeps the 1d4 variance to a minimum) from the vendor in the market. Then hit the dummy a few hundred times and see if the numbers make sense, try to keep MP to a minimum as well (why i would use something other then a Barbarian).

[Impaqt]

What's the simplest, most conclusive test? I'm happy to go do it (and post the video) if we come up with one. The idea would be fewest possible variables, biggest change in ability stat possible, and easiest to set up.

Strength-based iconic barbarian? Raging adds a ton of strength, right? Anything bigger? (Skaldic rage + rage spell means bards get an easy +6 strength toggle. Barbarian rage gives more than 6 str, yes?)

Pretty much what I did.

Minimize your damage attribute. Low base damage weapon. Record numbers from the Dummy. No need for "Hundreds of hits" a 1d4 base damage weapon should only be able to produce a 5-8 number range of damage numbers.

Then bump your attribute back up so you have a known increase.

Beat up dummy again. record damage. Compare results.

If you str went up 20 points, you should see a difference of 15 ponts.

Or you can just review my numbers where I showed 100% positive that we're still getting 2x damage.

[EllisDee37]

I set up a test with the fewest possible variables:

7/4/4 bard/druid/cleric morninglord

bard for skaldic rage & rage spell
druid for ram's might
cleric for divine might

Stats: 10 strength, 18 charisma, rest in con and wis. (3 levelups in charisma)
Skills: Max balance and perform to meet prereqs
Feats: Complete SWF line, toughness on everything else
Enhancements (5 AP total): Divine Might III (4 AP) and Skaldic Rage (1 AP)
Gear swaps: +6 strength gloves, +5 charisma cloak

Turns out I didn't need druid for ram's might; adding it makes the str mod odd, and I want it even.

Charisma 18 base +3 levelups +5 item = 26 (+8 mod)
Strength 10 base +6 item +2 rage +4 skaldic rage +8 divine might = 30 (+10 mod)

Baseline is 0 strength mod, and we can see my non-magical dagger (bought from the Hammer & Chain in the harbor) does its expected 1d4 damage on the dummy. Then I buff up to get a +10 str mod, and we should be seeing 16-20ish per swing factoring in melee power (10 from GSWF), but instead we see 23-26ish, meaning that GSWF does indeed still grant 2x ability mod to damage.

Here's a 42-second video showing the complete test:



I'll keep this character as-is for future testing if they take another swipe at fixing it.

[Sebastrd]

White dragon plate, a certain Tempest enhancement as well as the shield spell act as a shield for certain things too, a monk with a shield wand getting benefits from shield mastery is as laughable as a paladin with an orb.

SWF really did just add more problems than it solved, Turbine could have just pushed swashbucklers into shield masteries for their abilities and called it a day but instead now we have all these issues with different fighting styles being sort of exclusive front and centre.

For the same reason that wolf forms with both SWF and TWF need to be fixed, they're over performing.

Orb wielding Paladins with Shield Mastery are over performing? That's laughable. In the future, I suggest you make sure you know what you're talking about before you comment.

[Impaqt]

Orb wielding Paladins with Shield Mastery are over performing? That's laughable. In the future, I suggest you make sure you know what you're talking about before you comment.

um.. ALL SWF builds are currently still over-performing.... Orb wielding Paladins included.

[Monkey-Boy]

Orb wielding Paladins with Shield Mastery are over performing? That's laughable. In the future, I suggest you make sure you know what you're talking about before you comment.

They absolutely are. If yours isn't it's because your toon isn't good.

[Sehenry03]

Didn't they fix shield mastery working with orbs in U24?

[Monkey-Boy]

Didn't they fix shield mastery working with orbs in U24?

I'm still getting a bunch of DS and PRR from it.

[Sehenry03]

I just thought I remember reading in the U24 notes that shield mastery no longer works for Orbs but I haven't tested anything.

[Monkey-Boy]

I just thought I remember reading in the U24 notes that shield mastery no longer works for Orbs but I haven't tested anything.

they also said they'd fix the 2X stat to damage BUT THEY DIDN'T FIX THAT EITHER.