Cetus: The Supreme Bladeforged Fighter

[painkiller3]

..Also, eSoS gives a nice +30 implement bonus to spellpower if you slot repair, thats at least 144 repair spellpower compared to 90 from the ring.

that's news to me that a weapon gets implement bonus if you slot a spell augment, although that makes sense as the software probably counts it as a "caster stick". good advice!

[Makkuroi]

that's news to me that a weapon gets implement bonus if you slot a spell augment, although that makes sense as the software probably counts it as a "caster stick". good advice!

Ive been running a clonk, and its really hard to slot spellpower for them... I had slotted holy handwraps of stunning with either radiance or healing spellpower and they worked quite well. There are also all kinds of random generated weapons with spellpower which all get an implement bonus. I have to try a shield with a red slot if it gets an implement bonus (the one shield from orchard is tempting, still need 2 pieces for the new lvl 14 version with slot).

Ah, there was a lvl 28 repair spellpower augment on thelanis AH recently, thats an enormous boost to repair in an eSoS.

[Andoris]

Not unlike what I have done but drop the Epic PRR for PTWF as the extra PRR will make minimal diff in dmg mitigation, but the xxtra glancing blows dmg will. Also Epic Toughness is not required and 5% doublestrike is very nice comparative or even save a boot slot and take blinding speed then get a 125% for random lootgen item. Power critical not worth it IMO, FoP or didge is a better feat slot. Deflect Arrows is a very good feat. I would even say drop Imp Sunder and grab GMoF as the stun DC is pretty **** good IMO nd I find IS used very rarely to be worth a feat slot. This coming from someone who has tested melee only of this build for 3 epic lives so far. Take it for what its worth.

1. Perfect TWF and PRR are not competing for a feat slot (one is epic and one is destiny) and is already in the build. I agree the Epic PRR is a bit weak, however; couldn't find much better.

2. Blinding Speed is unnecessary as I have EE goatskins that fit well within the gear selection, and I don't think +1 ref save is worth an epic feat slot

3. Power Critical is weak (basically only +2 seeker), but I already have Force of personality and Dodge is worthless if you are blitzing -- Even then, it isn't a bad idea to swap that in for time when you are not in blitz mode, personally for me I like the extra damage.

4. Deflect Arrows is a good feat choice, but this build doesn't meet the stat requirements for it, and I am unwilling to give up a point of Stun DC to fit it in.

5. Improved Sunder is rarely used, however not quite ready to give that up yet. For one, I don't have anything better to slot in there. For two, I have a feeling that as soon as I drop it.. I will wish I didn't. Even so, feat swaps are cheap -- if I thought of something else to slot there I likely would.

6. Grand Master of forms isn't a bad idea. It would likely cost me some points in balance (would need to take 6 monk levels earlier) and likely improved sunder or power critical (two weakest feats imo). The gain would be +3 prr, +1 con (would put me at an odd number, so nothing here), and situationally +1 saves (if I swap to water stance, which I almost never do). It doesn't really seem to be worth it to me.

I think I have covered all of your questions/comments.

[Choopak]

1. Perfect TWF and PRR are not competing for a feat slot (one is epic and one is destiny) and is already in the build. I agree the Epic PRR is a bit weak, however; couldn't find much better.

2. Blinding Speed is unnecessary as I have EE goatskins that fit well within the gear selection, and I don't think +1 ref save is worth an epic feat slot

3. Power Critical is weak (basically only +2 seeker), but I already have Force of personality and Dodge is worthless if you are blitzing -- Even then, it isn't a bad idea to swap that in for time when you are not in blitz mode, personally for me I like the extra damage.

4. Deflect Arrows is a good feat choice, but this build doesn't meet the stat requirements for it, and I am unwilling to give up a point of Stun DC to fit it in.

5. Improved Sunder is rarely used, however not quite ready to give that up yet. For one, I don't have anything better to slot in there. For two, I have a feeling that as soon as I drop it.. I will wish I didn't. Even so, feat swaps are cheap -- if I thought of something else to slot there I likely would.

6. Grand Master of forms isn't a bad idea. It would likely cost me some points in balance (would need to take 6 monk levels earlier) and likely improved sunder or power critical (two weakest feats imo). The gain would be +3 prr, +1 con (would put me at an odd number, so nothing here), and situationally +1 saves (if I swap to water stance, which I almost never do). It doesn't really seem to be worth it to me.

I think I have covered all of your questions/comments.

Good summary, thanks for that... You covered the "feats" section, but now how about class split? Again, i'm talking about a melee only version
I fell that the Ftr12/ Mnk6/ Pal2 might be tweak for a melee version, same classes selection, not the same split... options:
1) F10/M6/P4: loose a feat (you got plenty) and Power Surge (ouch) but can take Divine Might early and save a twist..
2) F8/M6/P6: loose 2 feats, Power Surge, for more LoH, Smites, Divine Might and Bladesworn Transformation.
3) M10/F8/P2: similar to Carpone's build, loose 2 feats, Power Surge, but gain more speed, imrpoved evasion, better FF, better saves.
I think that the 3rd one is the strongest... but might be wrong, so i'm asking for your input... Not level 28 yet (not even 20, lol) so my experience is limited.
If you guys think of something else, please feel free to point it out.
Thanks to Cetus for great build and all the others to keep this thread going...

[Arianka]

lose

[Andoris]

Good summary, thanks for that... You covered the "feats" section, but now how about class split? Again, i'm talking about a melee only version
I fell that the Ftr12/ Mnk6/ Pal2 might be tweak for a melee version, same classes selection, not the same split... options:
1) F10/M6/P4: loose a feat (you got plenty) and Power Surge (ouch) but can take Divine Might early and save a twist..
2) F8/M6/P6: loose 2 feats, Power Surge, for more LoH, Smites, Divine Might and Bladesworn Transformation.
3) M10/F8/P2: similar to Carpone's build, loose 2 feats, Power Surge, but gain more speed, imrpoved evasion, better FF, better saves.
I think that the 3rd one is the strongest... but might be wrong, so i'm asking for your input... Not level 28 yet (not even 20, lol) so my experience is limited.
If you guys think of something else, please feel free to point it out.
Thanks to Cetus for great build and all the others to keep this thread going...

1) -8 str from power surge, and at best your going to get back +3 from using primal scream (over rage pots) -- net loss 3 dc's and base damage -- gain: 28-56 hp. Not worth it imo

2) LOH is okay, but not great with a bladeforged -- Bladesworn Transformation has a stupid long cool-down and a fairly short duration. Even when it is up it is only +3 str (profane doesn't stack with litany) and +4 damage (+3 profane damage +1 from str boost). With that you lost +6 [nearly] always on damage from power surge + Greater wp spec and +4 dc's derived from that strength. You do free up a twist, but again there isn't much to take.. maybe primal scream which helps a bit on the str loss (but doesn't cover all of it) or a situational twist like energy sheath or meld to darkness (requires max ed's and some ETR grinding for the fate points on that one)

3) Not a bad option -- improved evasion is nice -- again though, you are losing +4 to your DC's [big deal] and a fair amount of damage, you also lose out on greater weapon spec.

[Choopak]

1) -8 str from power surge, and at best your going to get back +3 from using primal scream (over rage pots) -- net loss 3 dc's and base damage -- gain: 28-56 hp. Not worth it imo

2) LOH is okay, but not great with a bladeforged -- Bladesworn Transformation has a stupid long cool-down and a fairly short duration. Even when it is up it is only +3 str (profane doesn't stack with litany) and +4 damage (+3 profane damage +1 from str boost). With that you lost +6 [nearly] always on damage from power surge + Greater wp spec and +4 dc's derived from that strength. You do free up a twist, but again there isn't much to take.. maybe primal scream which helps a bit on the str loss (but doesn't cover all of it) or a situational twist like energy sheath or meld to darkness (requires max ed's and some ETR grinding for the fate points on that one)

3) Not a bad option -- improved evasion is nice -- again though, you are losing +4 to your DC's [big deal] and a fair amount of damage, you also lose out on greater weapon spec.

Ya starting to see your point: +8 STR is a big deal, the build already have it... so i'll stick to the basics: Ftr12/ Mnk6/ Pal2...

[Cetus]

1) -8 str from power surge, and at best your going to get back +3 from using primal scream (over rage pots) -- net loss 3 dc's and base damage -- gain: 28-56 hp. Not worth it imo

2) LOH is okay, but not great with a bladeforged -- Bladesworn Transformation has a stupid long cool-down and a fairly short duration. Even when it is up it is only +3 str (profane doesn't stack with litany) and +4 damage (+3 profane damage +1 from str boost). With that you lost +6 [nearly] always on damage from power surge + Greater wp spec and +4 dc's derived from that strength. You do free up a twist, but again there isn't much to take.. maybe primal scream which helps a bit on the str loss (but doesn't cover all of it) or a situational twist like energy sheath or meld to darkness (requires max ed's and some ETR grinding for the fate points on that one)

3) Not a bad option -- improved evasion is nice -- again though, you are losing +4 to your DC's [big deal] and a fair amount of damage, you also lose out on greater weapon spec.

Just to piggy back - Even improved evasion is almost entirely useless, this builds saves will utilize improved evasion only 5% of the time, when it rolls a 1. And if one chooses to pursue the non-ranged version of this build, then the acquisition of epic reflexes as an epic feat is entirely possible - which completely eliminates improved evasions utility.

None of those splits can justify losing fighter feats and power surge - the benefits simply outweigh any of the value that deeper monk or pally splashes offer with the required 8 levels of fighter.

Plus, in choice 3 - you lose the fighter icon, Unacceptable! =D

[Choopak]

Just to piggy back - Even improved evasion is almost entirely useless, this builds saves will utilize improved evasion only 5% of the time, when it rolls a 1. And if one chooses to pursue the non-ranged version of this build, then the acquisition of epic reflexes as an epic feat is entirely possible - which completely eliminates improved evasions utility.

None of those splits can justify losing fighter feats and power surge - the benefits simply outweigh any of the value that deeper monk or pally splashes offer with the required 8 levels of fighter.

Plus, in choice 3 - you lose the fighter icon, Unacceptable! =D

Thanks for input... i will stick with OP split... and, or coarse, you're right: losing fighter's icon is unacceptable, LOL

BTW, still waiting on your melee only version... just saying...

[NaturalHazard]

Would this be doable at all for anyone without a +5 wis tome? maybe skip a few points in cha for lower saves umd to hit the wis needed for zen archery?

[NaturalHazard]

I was thinking of a 2wf version, which weapon sets are better, 2 duel morhns? or 2 bliziards with 2 citw shortswords for dr breakers? I have them all, well I can use my 2 boxes for the shortswords only problem is i dont have enough coms to upgrade em all.

[Xianio]

1) -8 str from power surge, and at best your going to get back +3 from using primal scream (over rage pots) -- net loss 3 dc's and base damage -- gain: 28-56 hp. Not worth it imo

If you're willing to put the time in to get these: Titan's Grip you only end up losing 2 strength while opening your toon up to a different twist.

If that twist was Primal Scream, you're gaining +3 strength and +5 constitution for no particular loss - unless you hate clickies.

\/ Yup, but it's an option.

[emptysands]

If you're willing to put the time in to get these: Titan's Grip you only end up losing 2 strength while opening your toon up to a different twist.

If that twist was Primal Scream, you're gaining +3 strength and +5 constitution for no particular loss - unless you hate clickies.

3 clickies combined with item swap lag is going to be a pain.

[NaturalHazard]

3 clickies combined with item swap lag is going to be a pain.

They dont last long either unfortunately. 1 minute.

[emptysands]

They dont last long either unfortunately. 1 minute.

To be honest I find Power Surge a pain for it's 1min duration as well.

[NaturalHazard]

To be honest I find Power Surge a pain for it's 1min duration as well.

to be honest i dont really use it much outside of boss beatdowns. Esp on a toon that has a lot of short duration clicking to do.

[Roland_D'Arabel]

This is a DPS build. If you are lolly gagging through quests counting butterflies without power surge, DM, power of the forge, haste boost etc on at all times you are doing it wrong. It's like taking a Mclaren f1 out for a spin and not getting out of second gear.

[DanteEnFuego]

This is a DPS build. If you are lolly gagging through quests counting butterflies without power surge, DM, power of the forge, haste boost etc on at all times you are doing it wrong. It's like taking a Mclaren f1 out for a spin and not getting out of second gear.

This...

[jskinner937]

1. Perfect TWF and PRR are not competing for a feat slot (one is epic and one is destiny) and is already in the build. I agree the Epic PRR is a bit weak, however; couldn't find much better.

2. Blinding Speed is unnecessary as I have EE goatskins that fit well within the gear selection, and I don't think +1 ref save is worth an epic feat slot

3. Power Critical is weak (basically only +2 seeker), but I already have Force of personality and Dodge is worthless if you are blitzing -- Even then, it isn't a bad idea to swap that in for time when you are not in blitz mode, personally for me I like the extra damage.

4. Deflect Arrows is a good feat choice, but this build doesn't meet the stat requirements for it, and I am unwilling to give up a point of Stun DC to fit it in.

5. Improved Sunder is rarely used, however not quite ready to give that up yet. For one, I don't have anything better to slot in there. For two, I have a feeling that as soon as I drop it.. I will wish I didn't. Even so, feat swaps are cheap -- if I thought of something else to slot there I likely would.

6. Grand Master of forms isn't a bad idea. It would likely cost me some points in balance (would need to take 6 monk levels earlier) and likely improved sunder or power critical (two weakest feats imo). The gain would be +3 prr, +1 con (would put me at an odd number, so nothing here), and situationally +1 saves (if I swap to water stance, which I almost never do). It doesn't really seem to be worth it to me.

I think I have covered all of your questions/comments.

1.) For me I dumped my EE goatskins because there are higher fort numbers available and without Brace for Impact 10% maks a big difference and if have some iconic pls can get to 185% fort easily so I picked up blinding speed and have a 125% fort with +40HPS and Colorless Slot. It works nice for me.

3.) What about when you are not in LD or off blitz...raiding for example. Dodge is pretty nice. Heck Greater Weapon Specialization would trump PC because then you +2 dmg every swing.

4.) You can qualify it just has to be taken at monk level 1,2 or 6. Can easily be worked in since the reason Cetus took the other feats is because some of the ranged feats had to be taken later after tomes kicked in.

5.) Heck I would take Mental Toughness over PC or IS. More mana for reconstructs is a better bang for your buck IMO.

[NaturalHazard]

to be honest i dont really use it much outside of boss beatdowns. Esp on a toon that has a lot of short duration clicking to do.

i was thinking of the glove clickies read comp fail on my part.