Cetus: The Supreme Bladeforged Fighter

[Sokól]

Hello, after coming back to the game just after the AP conversion, and playing around with a gimp build... or two, my guild leader(or guild officer at any rate) convinced me to build an uber toon for getting gear from EE content. And gave me the website adress for this forum. This really gimp toon I'm playing got 2 of the Raider boxes and being the impatent sort that i am, I just grabed TWO 'Tinah, Sword of the Sea' from them, to use when she got to level 23. She only has 1 fighter(soon to be 2) past lives and I will be epic tr'ing her and then Iconic heroic tr'ing her into the Cetus Bladeforged build.

I do not have much time to play, 1-2 hours/day and only Sunday off. On the up side I have no life and game when i can :P So grinding for an eSoS or Antique Axe will take some time.

My question is: Since I already have 2 of those longswords (Tinah) would going 2-Wep. fighting instead of 2-hand fighting work with this build as I have little time for grinding?

PLEESE NOTE!: When I do get an eSOS/Anteque Axe I will be switcing to 2-Hand. Fighting )

Sorry for the rambling post. You can blame Bosleysbacon on the Cannith server

EDIT: I put in the names of the swords i got and guess I should sum up what I rreally want to know

Will using 2-Hand. Fightin with 2 Tinah's: 2.5(1d10)/x2 crit:19-20 (base damage,mult,and crit) still be ubber enough for soloing, or at least kicking ass with friends in EE content?

Dude if you had taken Cleaver and Pinion you would be set, I rate Tinah as 1 of the worst weapons from that raid/box but if you want a TWF build check out this 1 might also be easier for you to adjust to https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...58#post5217158

[Crann]

The +5 stacking racial seeker really adds to dps...I don't UMD tenser's (like Cetus does) so the extra seeker on the eSOS makes a big difference...will look into Ninja Poison

Why would you not use Tenser's? I can understand the conflict with Weapon Attachment, but for 105 of the 180 seconds in the WA cooldown, you can also have Tenser's running. What am I missing?

[Cetus]

I've been plugging away fighter lives to boost my Monk's Quivering Palm... and if the proposed QP nerf goes through, it will slap it to uselessness. So I've been thinking of going to a 6 Monk / 12 Fighter / 2 Pally that I've had planned since U19 beta, and decided to pass over what other people thought of. Your build fits pretty nicely into what I had, though I hadn't thought of hybriding into ranged. I have rarely found times where I wished I had a powerful range option; carrying a few appropriate shurikens for pillars/crystals/flying dragons for the small percentage of the time I need them has been enough. I do look forward to seeing a few of your videos to learn how having both generally helps (instead of the classic "oh I hit 40k in a Fury crit" SS).

I do, however, have some suggestions for your enhancements that I wonder if you tried (or could try). I personally love No Mercy as it is a major DPS boost on the targets you stun, and if you have a blue bar tossing mass holds, it's love. Luckily you can fit it with what I find acceptable tradeoffs: Dropping Bladeforged Improved Power Attack and Weapon Attachment frees up 7 points. Dropping one level of tactics from Kensei (because really this build can afford to) gives another two. By placing those 9 points into acrobatics, agility, ability stat, and a dump into subtlety or a point off agility/acrobatics to get an Elemental Ki strike - leaving 4 points for No Mercy (20% damage on helpless targets). Unfortunately it's not possible to get all 3 stacks without sacrificing Divine Might or Power of the Forge, which both are obviously superior to 10% helpless damage. But giving up 3 damage, negative 3 attack (a boon on a build you say already struggles with attack on bow), and weapon attachment that you have to fiddle with every time you use a scroll... I see the changes as nothing but a win.

Hopefully that helps you. Would also like your opinion of dodge feats vs ranged feats. I realize when you're blitzing the dodge is moot as it's current bugged and capped, but I could see it as a big survivability boost when running Fury. The remaining two feats would obviously go to GTH and whatever else floats your boat like Greater Specialization.

All decent suggestions, but not my preference.

Losing warforged power attack is 6 damage - and as I value my red named dps mor ethan trash damage, I wouldn't make that switch.

Ninja Spy helpless damage is merely higher damage numbers, trash gets sliced through so quick already it doesn't really add much utility to the build.

If trash has significantly higher HP in the new stuff then the extra helpless damage will be useful, until then - meh, I'm fine with dreadnaught 50% and sense weakness, the ninja spy damage is overkill.

I already lost weapon attachment in the meantime and increased my tactic DC, I value my tactics very much, and prefer not to lose it over extra helpless damage just to see bigger numbers.

Dodge:

Again, this builds primary purpose is, for the most part, DPS. Ranged adds a significant DPS boost when distance is needed or more convenient - the saves, current dodge, and shadow fade coupled with recon makes losing ranged in favor of dodge a pretty bad decision in my opinion.

[Orin2]

Dude if you had taken Cleaver and Pinion you would be set, I rate Tinah as 1 of the worst weapons from that raid/box but if you want a TWF build check out this 1 might also be easier for you to adjust to https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...58#post5217158

Ya this ain't the first time my Impatience has bitten me in the ass. And it more then likely won't be the last :P
Thanks for link but my brother pointed me to the Canneth Axe that I can use till I can get the cleaver. It's not the best but it will do till I ger better. And with my time limitation that might be a while.

[painkiller3]

Why would you not use Tenser's? I can understand the conflict with Weapon Attachment, but for 105 of the 180 seconds in the WA cooldown, you can also have Tenser's running. What am I missing?

You're not missing anything...i'm missing the UMD

[Hawkwier]

Well pal6 is good for 2 things: easy and early access to divine might, AND bladesworn transformation...
I did a simulation of the build (F8/P6/M6) on character builder... pretty impressive

Thanks for the replies folks.

Im leaning towards 6P variant based on the above...

I think BST> POTF, plus POTF is psionic which I can get a chunk of from Titans grips, whilst BST is profane which I think is harder to get.

Then it comes down to 3 less feats vs a twist slot and an extra (exalted) smite and a couple of L1 spells. Feats would be good but I don't think critical. No completionist as 1st life.

Also I think P6 opens up divine ED sphere a bit earlier. Minor but helpful on 1st life....

Ta again!

[Cetus]

Thanks for the replies folks.

I think BST> POTF, plus POTF is psionic which I can get a chunk of from Titans grips, whilst BST is profane which I think is harder to get.

Huh? I'm assuming you are comparing BST with Power surge? Since you mentioned psionic, power of the forge is a damage boost.

Anyway, BST is kinda trash in my opinion. It has a gigantic 10 minute cooldown, and you only get to experience a fraction of it.

On top of that, that fraction when you do experience it isn't even that nice - its 3 extra profane strength and 4 damage. And by going 6 pally you'll lose 4 levels of monk - which means losing ninja poison, fists of iron, shadow fade, sneak attack die, and 2 feats. Horrible decision actually.

Titan grip is nothing but a talking point, its practical utility is near zero - its only 3 minutes of +6 str and they recharge 1 per shrine.

The one twist slot you save for divine might doesn't compensate for all that you lose from monk. Especially since you have the option of twisting out divine might in quests where you think 22-23 charges would be enough.

[Andoris]

Did a DPS comparison and between Grandmaster of Air and Earth -- obliviously earth stance has other benefits (PRR and Hitpoints), but this was just doing the math on a 10% doublestrike bonus vs +1 crit range on 19s and 20s.

On a 0% fortification mob Air stance wins by ~8% if not using a momentum swing, or ~4% if momentum swing is being used. If you factor in a high fortification mob (using LOB + 20% AP from black dragon armor), Air stance seems to be ~4% higher DPS in both cases (which somewhat surprised me).

If we drop down to Master Stances it is ~1.5-2% improvement in DPS with air stance on 0% fort mobs and about the same for high fortification mobs.

Not making any recommendation, just wanted to share the comparison. In general I think Earth stance is the way to go, however; if you can fit in grandmaster stances, there are situations when it would make sense to swap to Air stance for the added dps.

[Cetus]

Did a DPS comparison and between Grandmaster of Air and Earth -- obliviously earth stance has other benefits (PRR and Hitpoints), but this was just doing the math on a 10% doublestrike bonus vs +1 crit range on 19s and 20s.

On a 0% fortification mob Air stance wins by ~8% if not using a momentum swing, or ~4% if momentum swing is being used. If you factor in a high fortification mob (using LOB + 20% AP from black dragon armor), Air stance seems to be ~4% higher DPS in both cases (which somewhat surprised me).

If we drop down to Master Stances it is ~1.5-2% improvement in DPS with air stance on 0% fort mobs and about the same for high fortification mobs.

Not making any recommendation, just wanted to share the comparison. In general I think Earth stance is the way to go, however; if you can fit in grandmaster stances, there are situations when it would make sense to swap to Air stance for the added dps.

Did you include manyshot? And the time in takes to swap stances each and every time you switch weapons...=D

[Andoris]

Did you include manyshot? And the time in takes to swap stances each and every time you switch weapons...=D

Nope.. just looked at Melee (for obvious reasons :-p ). As wind stance gets you nothing in a bow, that is a no brainer. Actually with the dps difference being as low as it is, in most cases it is better to be in Earth stance when in Melee also -- but I can see a few cases (assuming GM stances) where wind can be beneficial. Now in a ranged+melee build like yours, there is no room to slot in GM stances.. that is even tighter when you factor in completionist.

Just figured I would share a little analysis I did for myself with the wider community.

[Hawkwier]

Huh? I'm assuming you are comparing BST with Power surge? Since you mentioned psionic, power of the forge is a damage boost.

Anyway, BST is kinda trash in my opinion. It has a gigantic 10 minute cooldown, and you only get to experience a fraction of it.

On top of that, that fraction when you do experience it isn't even that nice - its 3 extra profane strength and 4 damage. And by going 6 pally you'll lose 4 levels of monk - which means losing ninja poison, fists of iron, shadow fade, sneak attack die, and 2 feats. Horrible decision actually.

Titan grip is nothing but a talking point, its practical utility is near zero - its only 3 minutes of +6 str and they recharge 1 per shrine.

The one twist slot you save for divine might doesn't compensate for all that you lose from monk. Especially since you have the option of twisting out divine might in quests where you think 22-23 charges would be enough.

First-off, apologies - you have surmised correctly - I meant Power Surge, not Power of the Forge!

I'm not dropping any monk levels - the chioice here is between F12/M6/P2 and F8/M6/P6. I agree dropping monk levs, and all it's goodies would be a bad choice.

The cooldown on BST you pointed out is pertty awful, and has definitely provided pause for thought - I guess it comes down to, simplifying, choosing +4 damage more often with Power Surge, or instead choosing to have +9 damage a lot less often via combination of BST and Titan's clickie (= pretty much useful for end boss fights only, then...) I do have a pair of Titan's mitts on another toon, and do use 'em pretty much all the time for end-fights & mini-bosses. If I can clear trash easily enough without needing the +4 damage from Power Surge, then I might still give P6 a try, plus the loss of +4 damage might be compensaated for somewhat by earlier access to Divine Might...

Do you know, does BST recharge at shrines, or is it fixed at 10 minutes cooldown, nomatter what?

[Siccan]

It's a very nice build. A person I was pugging with asked me to look at this before I go into my final life. The title is a bit egotistical but the build is very well thought out. Thanks for sharing :-) Happy Hunting -Musk

[painkiller3]

It's a very nice build. A person I was pugging with asked me to look at this before I go into my final life. The title is a bit egotistical but the build is very well thought out. Thanks for sharing :-) Happy Hunting -Musk

Is it still egotistical if it's true????

[jskinner937]

All decent suggestions, but not my preference.

Losing warforged power attack is 6 damage - and as I value my red named dps mor ethan trash damage, I wouldn't make that switch.

Ninja Spy helpless damage is merely higher damage numbers, trash gets sliced through so quick already it doesn't really add much utility to the build.

If trash has significantly higher HP in the new stuff then the extra helpless damage will be useful, until then - meh, I'm fine with dreadnaught 50% and sense weakness, the ninja spy damage is overkill.

I already lost weapon attachment in the meantime and increased my tactic DC, I value my tactics very much, and prefer not to lose it over extra helpless damage just to see bigger numbers.

Dodge:

Again, this builds primary purpose is, for the most part, DPS. Ranged adds a significant DPS boost when distance is needed or more convenient - the saves, current dodge, and shadow fade coupled with recon makes losing ranged in favor of dodge a pretty bad decision in my opinion.

Cetus I thought that was the point of this build and your fleshy version....but I just don't get that you take FoL on thie bladeforged version other than maybe for use of Walk in the Sun. I personally prefer Fist of Darkness as it adds DPS and the Karmic Strike is terribly OP on a high crit profile toon. Heck it almost makes FoTW more attractive for soloing.

[jskinner937]

Did a DPS comparison and between Grandmaster of Air and Earth -- obliviously earth stance has other benefits (PRR and Hitpoints), but this was just doing the math on a 10% doublestrike bonus vs +1 crit range on 19s and 20s.

On a 0% fortification mob Air stance wins by ~8% if not using a momentum swing, or ~4% if momentum swing is being used. If you factor in a high fortification mob (using LOB + 20% AP from black dragon armor), Air stance seems to be ~4% higher DPS in both cases (which somewhat surprised me).

If we drop down to Master Stances it is ~1.5-2% improvement in DPS with air stance on 0% fort mobs and about the same for high fortification mobs.

Not making any recommendation, just wanted to share the comparison. In general I think Earth stance is the way to go, however; if you can fit in grandmaster stances, there are situations when it would make sense to swap to Air stance for the added dps.

I would agree with this comparison if you are comparing a non-hasted earth stance with a wind stance (hasted or not...does not matter). I have tested this as well and earth definitely wins on the crit profile and make sure you are comparing eSoS to eSoS, or even Cleaver to Cleaver.

[Andoris]

I would agree with this comparison if you are comparing a non-hasted earth stance with a wind stance (hasted or not...does not matter). I have tested this as well and earth definitely wins on the crit profile and make sure you are comparing eSoS to eSoS, or even Cleaver to Cleaver.

I used my build (posted in this thread) as the model. So yes, both are hasted (EE goatskins) and both are using an eSoS. I also factored in Momentum Swing (as broken out), OC, improved crit, Fists of Iron, Kensai and LD crit and damage improvements, as well as, 22 points of seeker (12 consuming darkness + 5 wolf cloak + 5 weapon attachment).

The numbers are close enough that I still run Earth most of the time (90%+) due to the other benefits (PRR & HP), but it did get me to put air stance on a hot key for those instances that it makes sense to push the dps a bit higher.

Now this all is based on using grandmaster stances --- if you are only using master stances the dps gain from wind stance is not worth bothering with imo.

[Sithlordnamalk]

What order do you levelup to get all the feats? Just curious since lamannia is down. Any help is greatly appreciated.

[Ravand]

What order do you levelup to get all the feats? Just curious since lamannia is down. Any help is greatly appreciated.

I also have this question. I went Pally levels 1-2, Monk 3-4, Fighter 5-16, and Monk 17-20 on Ron's Character Planner.

Manyshot requires a Dexterity of 17 (among other requirements).
Zen Archery requires a Wisdom of 13 (and a BAB of +1).

With the +5 Tomes not kicking in until level 19, how can a person back load those two feats to levels 19 or 20?

[Ravand]

What order do you levelup to get all the feats? Just curious since lamannia is down. Any help is greatly appreciated.

OK, I figured it out. I am not a completionist, so I subbed GTHF (or Blinding Speed or Epic Reflexes) for the Completionist Feat. No promises on optimization (not a big deal on heroic levels 15-20), but here is a path:

Levels
Paladin (P): 1-2
Monk (M): 3-4, 16-18, 20
Fighter (F): 5-15, 19

1: Weapon Focus, Slashing
1P: Follower of Lord of Blades
3: Weapons Focus, Ranged
3M: Power Attack
4M: THF
5F: Cleave
6: Point Blank Shot
6F: Great Cleave
8F: ITHF
9: Weapon Spec., Slashing
10F: Improved Crit., Slashing
12: Greater Weapon Focus, Slashing
12F: Bow Strength
14F: Improved Crit., Ranged
15: Rapid Shot
16M: Monk Path
18: Stunning Blow
19F: Manyshot
20M: Zen Archery
21E: Overwhelming Critical
23: Master of Forms (Not an Epic Feat)
26ED: PTHF
27E: GTWF (Not an Epic Feat) or Blinding Speed or Epic Reflexes
28ED: PTWF

Have fun! Thank you Cetus for providing us with the build!

[volaxis1]

12Ftr/6Mnk/2Fvs is also a good option for those who cant stomach pally. You get quicken and some other stuff, lose 5 on saves.

A HP breakdown would be nice, adding it via gear and 48Con I came to ~800, probably missed something.