Monks, DCs, and U9

[xxScoobyDooxx]

A competent monk at present is erasing one mob every 30 seconds or so, even before everything else they do.

Void 4 only erases on a 20 right and has a cool down ... I don't see erasing every 30 seconds and I mash void 4 every time its off cool down. what am I doing wrong ? ... I'd like to be competent

[Nick_RC]

My monk can beat up your monk post u9! +1's if I can.

ur on! Khybers pretty fun man...

[Lifespawn]

The problem is your to-hit, not fire stance or Oremi's. When you're hitting on a 2, it's likely you'll generate more ki than you can use.

standing 42 str i still can't keep up ki


i don't care that dc's of stunning fist have gone crazy needing you to gimp other areas to get it it's a powerful ability i just want to be able to use my ki strikes like a pally can use a much more powerful divine sacrafice.

[Deamus]

The problem is your to-hit, not fire stance or Oremi's. When you're hitting on a 2, it's likely you'll generate more ki than you can use.

Not bothering even to respond to you when you making such assumption lol

[Junts]

standing 42 str i still can't keep up ki


i don't care that dc's of stunning fist have gone crazy needing you to gimp other areas to get it it's a powerful ability i just want to be able to use my ki strikes like a pally can use a much more powerful divine sacrafice.

My monk has a 40 standing str and her gear is hardly good.

Hit on a monk requires a lot of work: at 48 str and stuff i still wont always hit on a 2. Monk hit is atrocious.

[Lifespawn]

My monk has a 40 standing str and her gear is hardly good.

Hit on a monk requires a lot of work: at 48 str and stuff i still wont always hit on a 2. Monk hit is atrocious.

20 base
16 str bonus
4 gh
1 rage
1 boat str mod
1 haste
2 dummy
5 weapon

thats a 50 without even trying while having aggro

[Deamus]

There are a lot of issues in U9 for monks. I'm not even going to bother touching on all of them. What this post about is DCs, specifically Stunning Fist DCs. In U9 Stunning Fist is being changed to use 1/2 character level instead of 1/2 monk level for its DC calculation. This makes the DC have no change at all for pure monks, but makes it possible for some monk splash builds to obtain a higher Stunning Fist DC than a pure monk. With all the negative changes for monks in U9 this is just another straw on the camel's back. Pretty soon that back is going to break.

Every monk finisher that has a DC, Freezing the Life Blood, Curse of the Void, Shining Star, etc uses 10 + full monk level + whatever stat modifier for its DC instead of the 1/2 monk level that Stunning Fist and Quivering Palm use. I propose that both Quivering Palm and Stunning Fist be changed to also use full monk level. In the case of Stunning Fist it should be changed to use 1/2 character level or full monk level, whichever is higher. In that way it would still be possible for monk splash characters to have a reasonable DC on the ability, it would be the same as the DC pure monks currently have, but pure monks would still have the advantage which is really as it should be since this ability has always been a monk staple.

With the increase to DCs in epics it would also make sense for monks to have some enhancements to increase the DCs on their abilities.

Back to OP any comments about this from Developer ?

[Junts]

20 base
16 str bonus
4 gh
1 rage
1 boat str mod
1 haste
2 dummy
5 weapon

thats a 50 without even trying while having aggro

-5 to 8 from power attack and, wow, that's pathetically bad to hit. Even 50 is quite poor, especially since helpless mobs will no longer be autohit.

You want ot talk about a nerf to monks? the largest danger ot monks here is that they can't ever use power attack anymore.

[Nick_RC]

20 base
16 str bonus
4 gh
1 rage
1 boat str mod
1 haste
2 dummy
5 weapon

thats a 50 without even trying while having aggro

PA and moving Timmie!!! Moar dps moar Zerg!!!

[dejafu]

Does not the Buddha teach us that all things in life are transient? That to gain enlightenment, we much give up all attachment, even to those things we hold most dear.

Let go of your ki. Let go of your DC's. This way leads to the path of true enlightenment.

And if you've seen any martial art's movie, then you know that enlightenment inevitably leads to the ability to kick much a@@

Nerfs = opportunity for enlightenment = more DPS.

Genius.

[Lifespawn]

-5 to 8 from power attack and, wow, that's pathetically bad to hit. Even 50 is quite poor, especially since helpless mobs will no longer be autohit.

You want ot talk about a nerf to monks? the largest danger ot monks here is that they can't ever use power attack anymore.

thats before bard songs sneak attack finisher and really any gear to speak of

[Junts]

thats before bard songs sneak attack finisher and really any gear to speak of

Thats certainly true but it's still a long way to go, and even so +16 is pretty high: you're looking at that only working for heavy str based monks, and there are a bunch of other options.


Hitting in a world where acs go up to 60 or more is gonna be a challenge. It might make the ravens sight/epic gem combo pretty much necessary.

[Lifespawn]

Thats certainly true but it's still a long way to go, and even so +16 is pretty high: you're looking at that only working for heavy str based monks, and there are a bunch of other options.


Hitting in a world where acs go up to 60 or more is gonna be a challenge. It might make the ravens sight/epic gem combo pretty much necessary.

yep i plan to have them for situational uses if i really need the to hit i'll switch in the gem but i honestly don't care to play my monk if i can't use ki strikes i mean whats the point in epics as you said bad to hit stuns won't work without severe gimp and more to hit issues whats the point?

Welcome to barbarians online.

We pick stuff up and put it down.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-cpojkILO0

[Artagon]

I like the idea of a stance rebalance. I'd like to see fire's +1 ki gen on normal hits to be pushed back to 3rd level of stance.. at this juncture, fire stance is clearly the best stance, better to hit, better ki generation, better dmg, and if you have Jidz-Tetka.. better healing amp. This change would lower the impact of the stunning fist change a little bit.. while maintaining its current power at higher lvls.

Earth could use a full revamp, tbh.. The ki generation is a joke, the slowed movement speed, and the fact that the DR for the stance is lower than the lvl 20 ability.. all make this a losing battle to use (please tell me I'm wrong here) If you want to make earth a more viable ability, the DR should work more like shield mastery will be in the new update.. A percentage that stacks with other DRs.

Wind stance is still ok due to the doublestrike ability and faster attack rates, tho I'm no expert on wind by any means.

Water.. I want to love water because of the higher DCs but the fact remains that it lowers attack bonus and has NO ki generation method now that you have changed stunning fist. The proposal I'd like to make for this stance is that each level of the stance drop ki costs for the special attacks by 5-10%.. or even 1 point per tier would help.

[nebogloee]

Last time I checked monks were melees...Compare apples to apples. If resources arnt availble ul have to make a choice. Choice is a good thing in my mind rather than having absolutely everything you can get all rolled into one. Further comments in red.

Yah while I was playing my monk ...as a melee... it felt like cheating. It was easy mode...as a melee. Casters and Meleee are fundamentally different...obviously.

Honestly it just seems like too many monk players want all the great fun cool stuff that monks get AND do the best DPS. In my eyes monks should never do as much dps as a barb in full ****** mode killing himself to DPS.

You make some very good points, I am just worried that the monk gameplay (especially the dark monk) will get seriously slowed down and forced into just a few builds. Without threat reduction, my dark monk is usually right behind the barbs for horoth aggro, so reduction of dark monk dps a little bit isn't a big thing. But if lamannia epic is a sign of things to come, dps (ki gen) and cc viability of monks just fell down the nerf tree and that will equal a serious hit to dps. Not to mention to-hit is going to be even a greater problem then it already is for monks.

IMHO, Turbine has spent quite a bit of time tuning the monk class, some would say too much. But, many of the changes have just caused more rerolling headaches for monks. I have spent the better part of my gaming time over the last 2 years working on my monk, only to see every update invalidate builds, or force severe adaptation. I started playing ddo because it was not like every other mmo out there. But the longer the leapfrog/reroll/nerf/buff cycle of character planning is the expected adaptability strategy, the less I want to play this increasingly less unique mmo.

Just my 2 cents - and nick, thanks for the level headed reply - while I disagree with some of your arguments, I cannot deny that your concern is the overall balance of the game we love.

[Epitome]

Does not the Buddha teach us that all things in life are transient? That to gain enlightenment, we much give up all attachment, even to those things we hold most dear.

Let go of your ki. Let go of your DC's. This way leads to the path of true enlightenment.

And if you've seen any martial art's movie, then you know that enlightenment inevitably leads to the ability to kick much a@@

Nerfs = opportunity for enlightenment = more DPS.

Genius.

Lol, well said. THIS is my response to the devs regarding these monk changes.

[Impatiens]

Wow, this post exploded while I was at work.

Back to OP any comments about this from Developer ?

Thank you.

This post wasn't supposed to be about ki at all. This is about DCs. The fact that it may be hard for monks to obtain a reasonable DC on stunning fist without gimping their to-hit even more than it already is and more importantly the fact that some monk splash characters will be able to obtain a higher stunning fist DC than pure monks. Since the Devs seem to actually be present in this thread it would be nice to get a comment on that.

I am glad to hear that the ki costs of the higher tier strikes will be reverted back to 5 though. That, at least, is some good news.

[Cetus]

and nick, thanks for the level headed reply - while I disagree with some of your arguments, I cannot deny that your concern is the overall balance of the game we love.

He's currently server confused...give him a minute.

[Brannigan]

Back to OP any comments about this from Developer ?

No because he is blanket 'ignoring' everything people have said about stunning and seemingly refusing to talk about this issue.

Which generally means they are going to do nothing about it.

[krogyy]

5. We lose MORE DPS then the 50% HP reduction that epic mobs will suffer, if you combine the loss auf auto-crit and the reduced ki gen. And we lose it NOT ONLY IN EPICS, but throughout the whole game! The pittyful damage increase to weapon effects (shock, two times holy, frost) and elemental strikes (only fire, water, air) can barely compensate the 90 to 95% reduced proc rate of the burst effects and BY NO MEANS can compensate the loss of DPS by pure base damage and, even more importantly, the earth strikes.

i think your math is wrong.

check my answer to your calculations:
http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p...9&postcount=75