New Dice notation. Do not like.

[SisAmethyst]

Actually as mentioned they use cheat dice, seems the formula for XdY is actually X*(Y/2) + Xd(Y/2) so we have:
2d6 = 6+2d3
...

Well, as said they use the correct dice for the weapon but for some spells they use weighted (even not for all). The reason they do this for some spells is (a) probably a balancing thing and (b) as a lot of small dices like 1d3 flaten out the result but you may actualy want to see a higher distribution.

So the first thing where I am totaly on track with Borror0 that they maybe should first add the correct dices they use in the description at all instead of giving a false impression, independent of the discussion about the ranges. But that is just a good wish and my opinion...

[Mockduck]

*SNIP*People were made so "mechanics oriented" in DDO that they forgot D&D isn't about it. Every edition had this said at the beginning - it's not rules that make D&D, but "gameplay". So quests, lore, dungeon master, stories, being involved, having options, being able to be rewarded for good ideas and having the feel of "living" in a vibrant, living, ever changing D&D setting.

You can even play D&D without dice at all, and still it could feel like real D&D. Yes, DDO made people too concerned about mechanics, because there was no choice but playing that way. As I said, new adventure pack brought some hope for a change. Just read some of the feedback - isn't that new, having people talking here about the story?

That's a big accomplishment for the devs. Even while I know that those posts will soon be buried under mechanic-oriented ones. I'm still impressed and hope for new audience in DDO.

This is a good point, but at the same time I don't play this game because it's an MMO with a D&D "skin" laid over the top of it, rather, I play this game because its Dungeons and Dragons translated (generally quite well) into an MMO-styled video game.

[Kalari]

Totally incorrect! They in FACT do have a whole live group to ask for help.

They have countless more people to answer any questions they might have they your average table top PNP RPG group.

It is called: General Chat.
It is called the Advice Channel.
It is called Party Chat.
It is called Guild Chat.
It is called Voice Chat.
It is called submitting a help request.
It is called the Internet.
It is called the Compendium.
It is called NOT BEING SPOON FED and taking responsibilty to LEARN THE **** GAME you want to play!

I would have pos repped this but I gave ya some in another thread People just arent getting it. Even the devs arent, its not about excluding anyone, why cant people play and learn what dungeons and dragons is about? Why do we have to over simplify instead of trusting that new players will ask questions and get answers? Have really that many people quit citing dice notations? Have that many people quit over falling in vons 2, the trap in stk? or locked shrines in tear? Really how much more changes for the good of those who dont get it must be made before they do? And why does it have to affect even those who do know the game? Could we not have our hard and elites stay the same? Toggle so we who know what the die system means continue to enjoy the game the way we have for years? It just amazes me that their attitude is that not making things easy means were trying to exclude players instead of looking at it as a way to teach new players d&d. Ahh well I get your sentiment and when I can give ya an + I will be back to because I agree wholeheartedly.

[Durion]

1d3+3 /= 1 to 6

/signed

OHHHHHH!!! Now I understand why they are doing it. Seeing as our new players think 1d3+3 is akin to 1 to 6. This was on the first page and I didnt see anyone mention it.

Just for the record though little buddy, 1d3+3 is 4 to 6.

See, we need to teach them how to use it, not take it away altogether. Math is a good subject to at least have an idea how to use, lets help the new people learn.

***** you Visty, you were subtle about it and I missed it.

[Drfirewater79]

This is a good point, but at the same time I don't play this game because it's an MMO with a D&D "skin" laid over the top of it, rather, I play this game because its Dungeons and Dragons translated (generally quite well) into an MMO-styled video game.

I agree i feel the same way

unfortunately Turbine doesnt ... they would rather people look at it as a generic MMO with a DnD skin laid over top of it ... they dont care about making this game more and more dnd they care only about inticing people who know nothing about dnd and care nothing about dnd ...

cause they are gonna be less effected by changes like TWF BS the dice removal BS and other such BS changes that have happend in the past and will happen in the future ..


LETS BE HONEST HERE

Turbine loves the yes man

they only invite fanbois to moarnlands cause they dont like negative responses to there changes ... they assume the people who dont get infractions will give them the most honest opinions when it comes to screwing up the game ...

truth is the most honest people often are the first to get infractions and banned from forums for speaking there mind and speaking from the heart...

They cannot handle players saying they dislike something ...

if the game was filled with people who had no clue about anything DnD they wouldn't care as much about not having druid .... they wouldnt care about dice being removed ... they wouldnt care about the fact that doublestrike is in no way part of dnd and nor is a 20% miss chance when twf with gtwf feat ... they wouldnt care about all the things that people who love this game and love the Dungeons and Dragons name that is attached to it care about ... cause these kinds of issues only effect people in the know ....

what you dont know cant hurt you ....

what you do makes you want to leave this game and pray for its demise ...

i am not quite at the pray this game dies stage yet ... but every day someone does something ... says something ... .or changes something ... that makes me second guess spending my money on Turbine games.

[Strype.McClaine]

Do not want.
Did Not Want.

Does NOT show true averages
1d12 != 2d6 ... ectera ectera

[Drfirewater79]

OHHHHHH!!! Now I understand why they are doing it. Seeing as our new players think 1d3+3 is akin to 1 to 6. This was on the first page and I didnt see anyone mention it.

Just for the record though little buddy, 1d3+3 is 4 to 6.

See, we need to teach them how to use it, not take it away altogether. Math is a good subject to at least have an idea how to use, lets help the new people learn.

***** you Visty, you were subtle about it and I missed it.

now you see my issue

if you cannot add numbers up to 20 then WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU DOING PLAYING AND MMO WITH A TEEN RATING?????????????????????????????????????

i can understand someone under the age of 10 not understanding how to add to 20
(i mean there are people who are that slow and its not there fault... they didnt drop them selves on there head when they where a baby)

but since the game rating suggests 13+ you would think MOST people could read type and count .........

if they cannot then really should we be encouraging them to spend money playing a game ??????

no

we should encourage them to learn to read type and do basic math.

PARENTS PLEASE

TEACH YOUR CHILDREN TO READ AND DO BASIC MATH BEFORE LETTING THEM PLAY MMO'S GOD DAMD IT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Drfirewater79]

this question may be ashat worthy but

are they changing the roll mechanic too

rather then

/roll 1d100

is it gonna be

/random 1-100

or

/roll 1-100

cause i mean if people are not able to understand it in the item and spell discriptions then how can you expect them to understand it in raid loot rolls?

[Teharahma]

Slowly this game will turn in to Hello Kitty Online, just you wait and see, it's inevitable.

We will start seeing cartoony mobs, blood removed, sharp objects removed.

Oh god.. Help us..O.o

[Kalari]

Slowly this game will turn in to Hello Kitty Online, just you wait and see, it's inevitable.

We will start seeing cartoony mobs, blood removed, sharp objects removed.

Oh god.. Help us..O.o

okay had to give you rep because that made me laugh and made the soda burn my nose

[OldAquarian]

this question may be ashat worthy but

are they changing the roll mechanic too

rather then

/roll 1d100

is it gonna be

/random 1-100

or

/roll 1-100

cause i mean if people are not able to understand it in the item and spell discriptions then how can you expect them to understand it in raid loot rolls?

Its's going to be
/roll 2-12 DDO Dice: 2d6

[KoboldKiller]

So Turbine decided to look at the game "DUNGEONS & DRAGONS ONLINE" and what it is based on "DUNGEONS & DRAGONS" as well as the TRIED AND TRUE mechanic that has gone with it for decades and decided "it no longer works"?

I just have 3 letters ***?

This falls into the "change for the sake of change" category and does nothing to improve the game.

Is it seriously that difficult to figure out the d20 system?

With all the different builds, enhancements, skills, crafting etc the d20 system is ONE OF THE EASIEST to understand.

[Drfirewater79]

Its's going to be
/roll 2-12 DDO Dice: 2d6

lol

i would give ya rep for making me laugh when i am in this bad a mood but i have lost 4 full markers worth of rep between yesterday and today ... and have decided that i couldnt give a rats as how much reputation I have or anyone else has .... for the simple reason it doesnt make the game changes any more endurable ... they are still as stupid as they where day one.

[SisAmethyst]

....Me, I will be here havin' fun, playing DDO, letting me remember my youth, regardless of the description on a tooltip.

I guess we all are here because we love and like this game, we will probably even not die due to a change in the game and yes there may be a lot of things in the game that may be changed in the next couple of years, regardless if we like it or not ... but that is I guess not really the point ... It is the way how things change and that people here say there are other possibilities and ideas that may help new players without affecting a flavour of this game. Things that could be done before even considering changing this part of the game. Like a lot of people probably would first change the tires if they are flat instead buying a new leather steering-wheel. Maybe it is not a flavour that is that important for you but maybe for other players.

I guess most players here would like to help players, each in a different way and with a different mindset, some by correcting the descriptioin others by adding tutorials. And one point that for a lot of players here seems to be important is to introduce players in the game how they know and love it. Maybe that does not always work, but if it does it is great.
If you bring your wife flowers and she just say 'yeah thanks, some other stuff I have to throw away in some days when it is withered' then this feedback is totaly different as if you are welcomend with 'a glance in the eyes' and it is this feedback, this non verbal communication that is as well important for changes like this. You may still love your wife, but sometimes the things written between the lines are getting important.

But we are all probably here because we like to play this game with different background and different reasons why we like it, but there is something in that change that quite some people would have wished haven't been introduced like that and reverted instead.

[Sylvurdragon]

If you are a D&D fan you know the game is about more than the time you are swinging you sword.

It's about the flavor of the game.

Heck, its even about the pizza and beer.

And he isn't being picky, you are being unduly narrow.

Don't forget the Funions...can't forget the Funions.

[Drfirewater79]

lol

i would give ya rep for making me laugh when i am in this bad a mood but i have lost 4 full markers worth of rep between yesterday and today ... and have decided that i couldnt give a rats as how much reputation I have or anyone else has .... for the simple reason it doesnt make the game changes any more endurable ... they are still as stupid as they where day one.

oops forgot to read my own signature before posting that i though something was stupid again ...

sorry will try to remember the words of wisdom passed down to me in the future.

[amethystdragon]

Thanks for the feedback.

For what it's worth, it's not our intention to drain the D&D out of the game. We're proud that we're D&D, that our game is unique amongst the competition, etc.

We're really just trying to make the game more accessible. We had a bit of a snafu with the D&D dice thing in the sense that it was supposed to be an option. I don't believe in forcing anyone to play the way I might want to play, but rather provide a choice. We are not able to revert this change for Update 5.

Speaking of accessibility, this is vital for our business model. I appreciate that most of you don't understand why it's difficult to understand that d6 = 1-6 but we get plenty of feedback from those who don't - or are intimidated by the complexities of D&D. While you might think that they don't deserve to play the game, we respectfully disagree.

I myself look at a spell tooltip that says something to the effect of "2d6+1 per caster level (max n)" and think "This is a computer - why do I need to do the math in the middle of an action game? You know my caster level, just tell me the range. And if I'm running maximize, take that into account!" Sure, I want to have access to the formula too, but mostly I want to know the bottom line.

Anyway, I'm not trying to tell you how you should feel about this. Your opinions and reactions are yours; all I'm trying to say is that we aren't intentionally trying to remove D&D from the game - we're trying to remove any barriers that prevent non-D&D experienced folks from otherwise enjoying an awesome game.

Thank you, for responding. I am glade to find out that the new dice notation is suppose to be an option. Do you have an ETA on when this part of it will be released?

I've had the chance to look at the new description, and really do not like it. I am afraid that you will find that those players who did not understand or where intimidated by d# system, are going to have just as hard of a time with the new system which looks like nothing more than wall of text and numbers. I've reread the description for the new healing aura for the clerics, at least a dozen times; and with it being nothing but a wall of text and numbers its not making a lot of sense to me.

[Steiner-Davion]

Magusrex777,

A lot of people (new players and Turbine Staff alike), are forgetting one important factor:

New Players came to DDO to play DDO. Why should Turbine or any creator of any game change the very nature, feel and flavor of their game for new players?

And before you answer with something along the lines of: Money or Profit, if that was the only goal they had, why didn't they make it that way in the first place?

[Steiner-Davion]

I would have pos repped this but I gave ya some in another thread People just arent getting it. Even the devs arent, its not about excluding anyone, why cant people play and learn what dungeons and dragons is about? Why do we have to over simplify instead of trusting that new players will ask questions and get answers? Have really that many people quit citing dice notations? Have that many people quit over falling in vons 2, the trap in stk? or locked shrines in tear? Really how much more changes for the good of those who dont get it must be made before they do? And why does it have to affect even those who do know the game? Could we not have our hard and elites stay the same? Toggle so we who know what the die system means continue to enjoy the game the way we have for years? It just amazes me that their attitude is that not making things easy means were trying to exclude players instead of looking at it as a way to teach new players d&d. Ahh well I get your sentiment and when I can give ya an + I will be back to because I agree wholeheartedly.

Thanks Kalari,

Like I said people came here to plays Turbine's Game DUNGEONS & Dragons Online. Either learn the rules and mechanics or do not play. You don't see other games changing the way the game is played on such a fundmental & ICONIC level just because someone can't be bothered to ask a simple question. If all games did that, then we'd all be playing the same game. And obviously we are not....

[Magusrex777]

I guess we all are here because we love and like this game, we will probably even not die due to a change in the game and yes there may be a lot of things in the game that may be changed in the next couple of years, regardless if we like it or not ... but that is I guess not really the point ... It is the way how things change and that people here say there are other possibilities and ideas that may help new players without affecting a flavour of this game. Things that could be done before even considering changing this part of the game. Like a lot of people probably would first change the tires if they are flat instead buying a new leather steering-wheel. Maybe it is not a flavour that is that important for you but maybe for other players.

I guess most players here would like to help players, each in a different way and with a different mindset, some by correcting the descriptioin others by adding tutorials. And one point that for a lot of players here seems to be important is to introduce players in the game how they know and love it. Maybe that does not always work, but if it does it is great.
If you bring your wife flowers and she just say 'yeah thanks, some other stuff I have to throw away in some days when it is withered' then this feedback is totaly different as if you are welcomend with 'a glance in the eyes' and it is this feedback, this non verbal communication that is as well important for changes like this. You may still love your wife, but sometimes the things written between the lines are getting important.

But we are all probably here because we like to play this game with different background and different reasons why we like it, but there is something in that change that quite some people would have wished haven't been introduced like that and reverted instead.

You know, actually I hope they revert this change. Really, I do not feel it will help new people THAT much and they could be throwing some of you folks a bone. I would prefer to see the actual number and the exact formula used if I had a choice. I would rather everyone could get past the tooltip because it seems trivial to me but clearly many of you cannot. I understand Turbine's desire to want to make the game easier to grasp for people that have never used dice. Hopefully there will be a compromise found for you.