Why DDO is on a down ward spireral and how to fix it.

[Gunga]

When the game was first released, we had a mod almost every single month. Then mods started to get pushed back a month and a half, then two month, then three months, now 6 months if we are lucky.

It's unreasonable to expect more development than we are currently receiving for what we pay. A new mod every month would cost subscribers 2-3x or more than what we pay per month, might even cost more than that to produce, and doesn't guarantee new/renewed membership or that those who remain won't be bored (even WoW members complain about lack of engame content).

[Chaos000]

When zerging through quests for that uber loot which is usually received in the higher level quests and you get them, then what? Ok I have zerged through every quest I know of and received the best equipment I can wield or use in every slot. What happens is the quests become very easy because you have the best of everything there is no more challenge. I am not saying that this loot should not be achieved I am just saying not with the zeal that it is as it results in the burn out I see.

To some... zerging through quests for that uber loot to max out a character's capabilities makes it easier to retire that character and start a new one. (every so often bringing the character out of retirement to help a guild run, or a friend out) A strong character can help carry not-as-strong and/or gimpy characters through relatively difficult quests and/or raids.

why exclude the 5 monks that want in on a shroud run if they are all in need of it? If you can 4 man it with a couple buddies, then it really doesn't matter what class fills the other 8 spots. So teaching a raid can be done without any failures.

The point is, I know people complain that the content is "too easy" but they're probably running with people that have good or similar gear as them. If they joined the really bad pugs to help people experience the game more, they'll realize the difficulty scales based on who you're grouped with.

[Return_To_Forever]

Its wierd when I was on yesterday, there was 2 titans 2 hounds and 2 shrouds and several lowby groups looking for members, then I logged on today, and low and behold, DDO was dead, it actually died!

So yeh, I'm like really good at telling stories, I like have really good endings to them.


No but seriously, there are reasons to open chests, people are far too dramatic about this, I love to get tomes, twink weps, devil beaters, still like getting high crit range smiters, banishers, and named items, and so on. I mean the idea is partially right, but I'm pretty sure its not drastic enough of a problem to warrant any of these changes.

I love how people look back at how we sought the power 5 and think that is a marker of some kind, people hardly remember how neglected the raids were compaired to loot runs.

I mean a level raise in loot could mean alot for this issue, which is coming at some point, so we can see how some of these weps and items pan out in the normal loot table.

Now I'm not saying I wouldn't love more named loot, or more reason to open chests, but I think its kinda overly hopeful to assume the chance at pulling better items from normal chests is somehow goin to revive this game thats on a downwardspiral!

Plus, I have to be honest, I don't want really important normal chests, I want them to be income, and nice surprises, I want insane epic adventures to hold the treasure I want most.

anyways, thats my 2 cent

[Holgar]

OP: I agree that the loot tables need to be more exciting. I completely disagree that the solution is to make everything in the game even MORE random, as this hurts the casual (and semi-casual player). Casual players need to be able to build their characters in some sort of slightly predictable manner. I don't mind if it takes me 6 months to build a character that it takes you 2 weeks to build. But don't tell me I can play for 6 months and still not receive the same **** item I've been looking for to support my build. Because that ain't fun.

I think that there simply needs to be more exciting loot in the game, period, and that doesn't mean some new uber weapon effect. Just think how excited people are to get that teleport mask! Imagine there were other items of that nature on the loot tables, it would rock.

Sadly, the OP is asking Turbine to cater to the uber non-stop player (like himself). So you have to loot the same chest 100 times to find what you're looking for. Then the OP will be excited because after several weeks of trying, he finally got one! But for the casual player, forget it.

Best example I can give of this is the Chaosgarde and Planar Gird in Xorian Cypher. Ran that quest 3 times the other day and not one person in the party pulled either item. Now for the uber player, this is no big deal. He and his uber guild are going to run Xorian another 25 times this week, so you'll eventually get what you need, even if it takes 50 - 100 runs. But the casual player is just gonna give up, and chalk up another frustrating disappointment in the game.

At least in the Shroud I know I am slowly piecing something together! I agree the GreenSteel Items are overpowerd, no question. But the future of this game does lie in some form of crafting. Let me spread my time sink out as much as I want, but don't make me run a quest 100 times and never get what I'm looking for. Because that just sucks.

So, in conclusion, I agree with OP that there needs to be some more exciting loot in the loot tables (probably non-weapon stuff is smartest so it doesn't affect the beloved "kill count"). But for your main weapon, armor, shield, etc., you should be able to craft your gear in a more predictable manner.

Holgar

[UnderwearModel]

Too me, that means one of two things.

1. All schools were out and everyone was home playing.
2. There is a population growth on Ghallanda.

I am thinking Number 2.

although, my kids were home and we had a lot of snow and tomorrow the schools have been canceled AGAIN.

[osirisisis]

What we have now is Shroud for ingredients and shards and VoD/Hound runs for raid loot.

If the DT armour was better for more people and was NOT RANDOM we'd have those quests being run.

People run quests for loot. When GH hit people ran every quest because the random loot was so much better than anything we had previously. POP was popular because it had the highest loot tables with the least effort, but all those quests gave us a possibility of getting something decent.

Now I get more excited to see a gold coin than anything else I could pull...

Fixing the loot tables would go a long way to helping population, absolutely.

But thats the easy part...like the Irish guy said, its not that simple.

Part of the problem is that loot was too readily available. The reason no ones excited about random loot is no one needs anything. We all already pulled 20 vorpals and we've already sold the last 10 para's to the vendor. So in reality the problem is the random loot is too good!

Phew!

We need something to get excited about, would adding ingredients and DT runes to random loot help? I think so, but Im prolly not the best person to judge that.

Something needs to be done.

Well said thx for support

[Chaos000]

Best example I can give of this is the Chaosgarde and Planar Gird in Xorian Cypher. Ran that quest 3 times the other day and not one person in the party pulled either item. Now for the uber player, this is no big deal. He and his uber guild are going to run Xorian another 25 times this week, so you'll eventually get what you need, even if it takes 50 - 100 runs. But the casual player is just gonna give up, and chalk up another frustrating disappointment in the game.

Pretty much sums up to: I don't mind repetition so long as it doesn't take a long time to do it.

It's not a big deal to repeat a 1.5 hr quest five times in a 20 minute time period, but if a run takes 2-3 hours to complete a single run with nothing to show for it... it was a complete waste of time.

[branmakmuffin]

Pretty much sums up to: I don't mind repetition so long as it doesn't take a long time to do it.

It's not a big deal to repeat a 1.5 hr quest five times in a 20 minute time period, but if a run takes 2-3 hours to complete a single run with nothing to show for it... it was a complete waste of time.

So you don't mind repetition as long as it doesn't take too long? That sounds a bit off. Either you don't mind the repetition or you do.

Anyway, some casual players (e.g., me) like the fact that uber loot is hard to come by.

Too me, that means one of two things.

1. All schools were out and everyone was home playing.
2. There is a population growth on Ghallanda.

I am thinking Number 2.

although, my kids were home and we had a lot of snow and tomorrow the schools have been canceled AGAIN.

Have you been around long enough to remember multiple instances of the Lobster?

[GORAK]

DDO needs a brand new re-marketing effort now with the introduction of D&D 4th ed into the D20 RPG world. More advertising to appeal more to the mature game players versus the kiddie effect of the MMORPG's like WoW or LoTR.

[Lewcipher]

lol, greensteel tier 2 make most/all random loot worthless...let alone tier 3... I think, to fix it, they need to basically do an edit on all crafted greensteel weapons, whether people like it or not...

As long as I can deconstruct...I want my )#*$)#(* 48 larges back

[8bithero]

I'm new, only been playing since August 2008.

I'm bored.

Not because of loot, but because of the extremely slow progression of the game and the requirements of flagging. I have a LV10 Fighter that has yet to do VoN 1-4 because I either can't find a group to do it or nobody will run it with me. See, I don't have the quests memorized yet, so I am treated like a burden in PUGs. I don't guild because I see no benefit from it and, frankly, I don't play enough to care (6-10 hrs a week).

This game is NOT built for the casual gamer. Every LFM listing states "must know the quest" leaving me high and dry. I spend the majority of my time solo.

As far as weapons go, I'm happy as a pig in slop to have a Muckbane. To me, it's not about gear. It's about play (novel idea in a GAME).

Now, I play Thelanis, so I obviously can't say how other servers are in these respects.

So, I've decided a month more. If I don't feel something other than another daily grind, Turbine loses me.

[branmakmuffin]

This game is NOT built for the casual gamer.

Other than me and the people I play with. Of course, we RP, and if you're level 10 after only 5 months of play, you're clearly not an RPer.

Every LFM listing states "must know the quest" leaving me high and dry.

Except for the LFMs which don't state that.

I spend the majority of my time solo.

As they say, start your own LFM with something like "New to quest, no zerging" (or whatever).

If you're not willing to put forth some effort to find like-minded gamers, then this game is not for you. In fact, probably no game is for you. People to group with aren't going to just fall into your lap.

[DagdaIX]

Everyone, just thought about one point. Why are we no longer happy to just have fun? I have played for 2 1/2 years and still to this day have never run the titan or DQ. I have no WoP or Dragontouched armor but in every group that I am in I do what is expected of me, and I help others out. I don't need WoP, I don't need Tier III, I need a group of 5 or 11 others, depending, that want to have fun and play DnD.

Absolutely.

I have a WoP because I pulled it out of a quest, and three Muck's Dooms because I run the Pit when I'm bored because I ENJOY it, not because it's got good loot. I'm working towards the 1750 favor, so I can start a 32 point, but honestly, I couldn't care less if I'm in a party for two hours that barely gets a single quest done. Hell, some of my best parties ever have been like that.

I don't know. I dislike the idea of adding more random drops. I really, really like the idea of increasing the crafting system, making the collectibles relevant to a far more diverse set of creations.

Honestly, I don't know what you're talking about. I've never had a problem with less random loot. I sometimes get rather frustrated with the ridiculous quantity of hours I'd have to put in to get anything "significant."

I have lucky drops, and that's the only reason for having a lot of the weapons and items I do. That doesn't mean I want MORE of a lottery system. In fact, I would LOVE for more players to be able to have better items. I don't LIKE being able to lord my +5 whatever of super awesomeness over the "mere mortals" making up the rest of my party.

It's a goddamn game. I play to enjoy myself, not to feel like I'm getting somewhere in life.

[GlassCannon]

lol, greensteel tier 2 make most/all random loot worthless...let alone tier 3... I think, to fix it, they need to basically do an edit on all crafted greensteel weapons, whether people like it or not...

Actually... I agree with this one.

A full breakdown of all "Disrupted Greensteel Weaponry" and "Disrupted Greensteel Items" due to "An unexpected magical event of great magnitude that affected all aspects of Shavarath, including items and weapons made of metal previously tainted or now tainted, causing them to begin to break down at the molecular level, turning into dust..." etc etc, and a way to salvage the ingredients like "The Stones of Change can now break down ingredients crafted from materials in The Shroud" and "The Altar of Fecundity can now extract the previously used gems, essences and focii from decomposing GreenSteel items and weaponry"...

Then, of course, due to brilliant artificers like Haywire trying to reverse-engineer Greensteel to make things like Greensteel Golems, we can then use the items with a different kind of Power Cell, quite similar to the first(rename them, maybe), or maybe something else, don't really care.. anyway, we make Ebberron GreenSteel weaponry, which is just like a standard weapon but gets an additional +1 added on to the base instead of a full die size(+2 for large weapons, and something else similar for scepters that focuses on Magic instead of Damage, like -1 spellpoint cost for all spells), and the crafting would allow us to build things like a Holy Burst Greataxe of Pure Good, or a Ghosttouch Good Blast(at Tier 3) Longbow... of course the weapons would still have a base Enchantment bonus of +5. This would bring things back into balance without upsetting the storyline too much.

Edit: Maybe you could tie the decomposition of current greensteel gear in with the defeat of Arraetrikos and his general Suulomades, then do a revamp of The Vale near Meridia to reflect that...

Edit2: Set permissions on the New Vale to require one completion of the Thirteenth Eclipse and A Vision of Destruction each to enter, unless a person with said permissions opens the instance first(Set default to the Current Vale)... this way players could get an immersive feel to the difference their actions are making in the realm of Ebberron.

[Voalkrynn2]

BINGO!

You hit it on the head Thadiues. The main reason that some people complain and say they are going to leave (Which is strange, if I ever leave I will just leave. It's kind of like the guy who says he is going to kill himself, ok why tell us if you want to do it go do it.) is because they build their total enjoyment of the game on getting the biggest badest loot or leveling their character up in 10 days or less or because they zerg through so many quests it becomes boring after awhile.

When a player I group with says I leveled my character up to level 16 in 9 days I always ask why, why the hurry. I play this game for the enjoyment of the quests and the players. Loot and XP will come when you run a quest. I have been playing for 3 years now and the game is just as fun for me as it was then, I have no intention of quitting.

When zerging through quests for that uber loot which is usually received in the higher level quests and you get them, then what? Ok I have zerged through every quest I know of and received the best equipment I can wield or use in every slot. What happens is the quests become very easy because you have the best of everything there is no more challenge. I am not saying that this loot should not be achieved I am just saying not with the zeal that it is as it results in the burn out I see.

There is NO MMO out there like DDO, I can not believe how well in my opinion the game has been traslated from pen and paper, very good job on that Turbine.

Concerning the 5 power weapons: I personally feel these items are not good for the game also. I do not wield them ever and when I get them I sell them on the AH or the vendor in House Denieth or sometimes to a bartender. I understand the appeal for other players but if this game looses interest to me it will not be because of these wepaons being nerfed or taken away, I wish they did not exist.

Now to be fair you miss the mark a bit. Vorpal and I think the other weaps (can't be certain stopped playing after 2nd ed was replaced) are part of PNP so it should be a part of DDO. In addition the middle ground recognizes the need for some of the super items.

For example, it's not unreasonable to expect after 12 runs of the Tor to have 25 or more dragon scales but not a complete set of any given color. After 30+ runs at least one complete set of scales for one of the colors. Unfortunately that seems to be the case as one can go 3 runs with 6 ppl, 54 chests total, and only 10 scales drop for the entire party.

Sorry the scale drop rate [actually the lack thereof] in Tor irks me something fierce atm. However, it is an example of where a combination of putting in the effort to collect items and enjoyment of the game are found to be an exercise in frustration. I did a run last night and each of the dragons was a close call. The quest was fun and challenging. Seeing only 2 scales and 1 rare loot item for 6 ppl from 3 chests (18 chances at scales and rare loot) was not fun as the work didn't payoff despite our close calls and good teamwork. In PnP a good DM would have rewarded the party better.

[query]

tell me in PM when you are often on, and I'll support ya. I'll also ask my alliances, friends and guild to see if we can get people on this.....

PUG's (often) suck now!

Somebody bring back NICE people who ALLOW players to learn please?

I'm new, only been playing since August 2008.

I'm bored.

Not because of loot, but because of the extremely slow progression of the game and the requirements of flagging. I have a LV10 Fighter that has yet to do VoN 1-4 because I either can't find a group to do it or nobody will run it with me. See, I don't have the quests memorized yet, so I am treated like a burden in PUGs. I don't guild because I see no benefit from it and, frankly, I don't play enough to care (6-10 hrs a week).

This game is NOT built for the casual gamer. Every LFM listing states "must know the quest" leaving me high and dry. I spend the majority of my time solo.

As far as weapons go, I'm happy as a pig in slop to have a Muckbane. To me, it's not about gear. It's about play (novel idea in a GAME).

Now, I play Thelanis, so I obviously can't say how other servers are in these respects.

So, I've decided a month more. If I don't feel something other than another daily grind, Turbine loses me.

[Kromize]

About greensteel. I think I have thought of a very possible fix. Just make the greensteel items exclusive. Make it so you can only wear 1 at a time(weapon or item), or, if purified, you can wear 2(maximum no matter what)(weapon + item, 2 weaps, 2 items).

[elraido]

Sorry the scale drop rate [actually the lack thereof] in Tor irks me something fierce atm. However, it is an example of where a combination of putting in the effort to collect items and enjoyment of the game are found to be an exercise in frustration. I did a run last night and each of the dragons was a close call. The quest was fun and challenging. Seeing only 2 scales and 1 rare loot item for 6 ppl from 3 chests (18 chances at scales and rare loot) was not fun as the work didn't payoff despite our close calls and good teamwork. In PnP a good DM would have rewarded the party better.

Dragon scale armor is on its way out. For the amount of time (or money) it takes to get a set of scales, you can get enough runes to craft (even with the randomness) a better set or armor.

[osirisisis]

lol to hear you 3 and 4 year guys whine and cry about a game you have obviously loved enough to spend way to many hours playing is jest getting to be too much . sounds like mabey you have played enough to me . Lets face it the future of this game will depend on new players coming in not uber players who cap a toon in 2 weeks! it is the average daily player who pay's just as much per month as ne of you uber players that will determine wheather this game lives or dies .I my self have only been playing a little over a year and have all 32 point builds with 2 capped toons and am still lovin every minute of it .rally tired of all the doom and gloom shiz. granted there is problems,but do you think there is an online game out there problem free ....i dought it . O.K. now for my negitive whine of my own just yesterday I soloed the reavers reach outdoor areas all day rotating toons through and ransacking all three area's and the average lvl of weapons that dropped in there all friggen day was lvl 10 **** now why would this be it is a lvl 17 area ......why did i pull 3 lvl 10 pluss three long bows and 30 useless lvl 10 to 12 bastard swords .?????????? now i do not no why the loot table is so screwewd ...but I am sure turbine will fix it . ask me 3 years from now if it has not been fixed...well i will be bitter too hehe

I would say the game depends on the level of enjoy the game offers over other MMO.
Random loot excitement is apart of of the level of enjoy. Random loot excitement declines and population declines. This correlation needs to be addressed. Cloning and Droning on raid loot and crafting lacks verity and I would bet will create a grind effect that will continue the loss of population. The game relys on old player staying, players who have left coming back, and new players influx with major upgrades in marketing.

[Rickpa]

Right now the only fun at high levels is the hound. It can be accomplished, and it always holds something of value. Contrast that with the utter lack of raid loot in VON6, the Titan, Demon Queen, and the Reaver.

As for VoD, I have only been in that dungeon once, and our WF tank didn't have enough intimidate. I am afraid that our guild doesn't have a level 16 warforged tank with a 50 intimidate, so no one wants to waste the resources on that one.

It doesn't take much to make us happy. Just clone Tempest Spine 5 or 6 times, and you will find more satisfied players.