Why DDO is on a down ward spireral and how to fix it.

[Hafeal]

MARK MY WORDS .....NURFFF W/P AND THIS ORGAN SYSTEM WILL FAIL .

"Consider them marked. On your way."


(~ Norrington)

[Chaos000]

This doesn't really address what I wrote in my post, but, whatever.

The game is fun for me when A) quest/raid does not result in failure. B) the loot gained from the quest is proportional to the amount of time put in and C) you don't have to fall back on consumables and/or the cost of consumables spent is exceeded by the worth of the items gained at the end when sold as vendor trash.

The general fun factor for quests ("experience of the journey") plays a part in the grand scheme of overall enjoyment but if the three criteria (A, B & C) isn't met, then it pretty much overrides that fun factor due to what results.

situation:
1. when a quest/raid fails = wasted time. (repeating process = grind)
2. when time spent in quest doesn't amount to much in terms of reward = waste. (= grind)
3. when you have to fall back on consumables to succeed = wasted resources. (= less resources or increased cost to continue questing which increases the chance that situation 1 will occur = grind)
4. when the cost in consumables spent is not exceeded by the worth of the items gained at the end when sold as vendor trash (= net loss, = situation 3+1, requires loot runs to make up cost with the risk of situation 2 = grind)

Doing the same quests over and over? it's part of the fun. If the situations above occur, it turns what might otherwise be considered a fun process into a grind.

does that make sense?

[branmakmuffin]

The game is fun for me when A) quest/raid does not result in failure. B) the loot gained from the quest is proportional to the amount of time put in and C) you don't have to fall back on consumables and/or the cost of consumables spent is exceeded by the worth of the items gained at the end when sold as vendor trash.

The general fun factor for quests ("experience of the journey") plays a part in the grand scheme of overall enjoyment but if the three criteria (A, B & C) isn't met, then it pretty much overrides that fun factor due to what results.

situation:
1. when a quest/raid fails = wasted time. (repeating process = grind)
2. when time spent in quest doesn't amount to much in terms of reward = waste. (= grind)
3. when you have to fall back on consumables to succeed = wasted resources. (= less resources or increased cost to continue questing which increases the chance that situation 1 will occur = grind)
4. when the cost in consumables spent is not exceeded by the worth of the items gained at the end when sold as vendor trash (= net loss, = situation 3+1, requires loot runs to make up cost with the risk of situation 2 = grind)

Doing the same quests over and over? it's part of the fun. If the situations above occur, it turns what might otherwise be considered a fun process into a grind.

does that make sense?

No, but only because I no longer remember what the original point was.

[Magi]

I interrupt your regularly scheduled post for an induction of intelligent thought...You say powergamers die....none of the ones I play with die while leveling....and how would you know, you dont run with them.

I now return you to "Dribble without thought or evidence" Brought to you by branmakmuffin, when you need a troll, just post.

[Chaos000]

No, but only because I no longer remember what the original point was.

hey no worries.

I didn't see how making the game more challenging or nerfing certain weapons would help make the game "more fun" and easier for less than optimal groups to complete in a reasonable amount of time.

I knew for sure however that there is a direct link between time spent and resources consumed.

= Making it less desireable to group with new players - of whom are prone to spend more time in a quest which results in more resources consumed - due to inexperience and/or lack of gear.

= Which results in less "good players" grouping with new people to increase their level of enjoyment.

= Will finally result in people not coming back and that not making buisness sense.

[Chaos000]

I now return you to "Dribble without thought or evidence" Brought to you by branmakmuffin, when you need a troll, just post.

he's not so bad. besides I think he means well

[Magi]

he's not so bad. besides I think he means well

You're welcome to your opinion but you might want to look back over his last several hundred posts like I did...then decide.

[Chaos000]

You're welcome to your opinion but you might want to look back over his last several hundred posts like I did...then decide.

I did read them. posts a lot for someone that isn't at all emotionally invested in this game.

eh, I figure everyone trolling in the forums at least has a live account. On the upside the game's still funded. gotta look on the bright side eh?

[osirisisis]

[QUOTE=Magi;2011633]

First of all my credentials


The random loot table is like a lotto. When a player opens a chest or gets a end reward he or she has a chance to get something so rare and valuable that there is great excitement in the anticipation. That item can make them feel special as they tell stories about where they got it and show it off to friends. This excitement is a major part of the "ENJOYMENT OF THE DDO EXPERIENCE"


Being a power gamer with I'm sure as many hours I have to agree. I still loot run a lot but there are few places left to loot run because even items have less value due to crafting. It has become an issue where crafted items have reduced power gamers, that can get everything they need on a toon through crafting and raiding in less than a week, to running loot runs for situational only items. I pretty much have limited my current looting to the cursed crypt, but only one loot run gets boring. I feel like I'm back in threnal.

So, as a suggestion, it would be nice if you not only used some of the weapon suggestions but also adding additional situational effect items for the twitch players. Scourge chokers are a good example. A great situational item that stacks. This is an item that still holds value due to the fact it stacks.

Now, honestly, I have no suggestions for these items, I'd rather be surprised!

There is no greater feeling in the world than popping a chest and finding the item you've been looking for...and that has never come from pulling a large scale.

Signed...I would love to see expanded dept in the named loot category.

[Boldrin]

You quoted and signed yourself, lol. And credentials of playing a lot doesn't mean you're an expert at anything, just that you have a lot of free time and no life outside of DDO. I don't disagree with all you say, but you lost any credibility when you stated DDO credentials.

[osirisisis]

You quoted and signed yourself, lol. And credentials of playing a lot doesn't mean you're an expert at anything, just that you have a lot of free time and no life outside of DDO. I don't disagree with all you say, but you lost any credibility when you stated DDO credentials.

Hey look a troll. Worse then that a troll who lacks reading comprehension. I'm quoting magi who quoted me then added his own opinion.... Go back to your cage troll....... squelched

[parvo]

Waste of Dev time. You can solve the apparent issue through voluntary play rules.

Note: I actually think the OP is very smart and has good ideas. However, I'm so sick of the above stupid argument, I'm just going to use it on "normal" players for a while. Fact is, everything except bug fixing falls under the same umbrella. Everything is a waste of dev time.

[Thorzian]

Hey look a troll. Worse then that a troll who lacks reading comprehension. I'm quoting magi who quoted me then added his own opinion.... Go back to your cage troll....... squelched

then call me a troll too. listing yer "credentials" and assuming that, somehow, they add credibility to yer ideas is arrogant and dumb. the ideas are good on their own account. that, in turn, shows yer credibility far more than any list you may write about how great you are.

[krud]

What are the things that keep people's interest? In order of starting out it's:

1) exploring quests/new content.

2) rolling and leveling better/different characters.

3) acquiring loot for those characters.


At the current stage in the game most people who have been around for a while are left with only the 3rd option to keep them interested. How many ways can they keep the acqusition of loot interesting? Turbine has been trying a bunch of different things, and I think they kept the loot grind interesting with the shroud, but it will be tough to keep people around by focusing only on the loot grind. Without the content to back it up, they are just grasping at straws. Like raids, sometimes they hit on a good formula, sometimes they don't, but the problem is when they don't, then it's a long wait till next mod.

So, what can they do besides the loot grind to keep people interested? New classes and races, but you'd need more than just one in a year to make the number 2 option interesting again. Besides, people seem to power level them anyway, so you are still left with them looking for stuff to do when they cap out (i.e. more loot grind)

So they need to address the first option, but how can Turbine ever release enough material at this time to keep any power gamer happy? Anything they do would have to be a really big module to satisfy any powergamer. The answer I say is user generated content! As long as you leave named items out of user content, and leave the loot grind to turbine, you can have an endless supply of new content. Some might be good, some might be bad, but at least it's constantly new and interesting.

[JobeTheMan]

IMHO, I'd have to say lack of advertising is killing DDO.

This is a poll of 198 people walking into (or out of) the largest gaming store in the Olympia, WA area. No joke, I and my cousin conducted this survey over a 3 day period from Thursday to Saturday. (I wont name the store, but if you're from the area you know which one I mean...) Of those polled 172 played MMORPG's either currently or recently. 156 have played some version of D&D/AD&D. All 198 have heard of WoW. Only 55 have claimed to have even heard of DDO. Of those only 36 have played it, and only 12 said they currently play. Of those that said they had not heard of it, 98 said they would try it now that they have heard of it (I should get paid for this advertising ;-P ) There were other stats we polled on, but those are pretty much the relevant ones. Of the 36 that had played, 20 quit in the first two months due to lack of content. I think Turbine is fixing that problem quite well over the last two years though.

[osirisisis]

I like many of your ideas except for in particular #8 keen shouldnt stack with improved crit as it goes directly against pnp rules and with certain barbs and kensai able to improve on this anyways its enough. As to why ddo has less players people are fickle some get bored others just want some mindless entertainment and ddo makes them think more then wow, also maybe if ddo was advertised more we would have more players. and your playing hours are impossible maybe per month but not per week 24*7=168-140=28 hours to sleep, eat and bath a week I am sure you did a lot but lets be realistic.

I do believe in preserving the PNP tradition to some degree, but DDO is a new level and should be a constant evolving organism. The main problem with tradition is that if nothing changes there is no growth or evolving. The positive with tradition is that it preserves what has been proven to work. It seems like a dance of decrement.