U51 Preview 3: Shadowdancer

[SpardaX]

Dark Imbuement: "increases your melee range"... yeah? Sounds good, but please elaborate, like explain what it actually does!

It increases your melee range. So you can be a bit further away from enemies and still hit them with melee attacks. It's one of the things that Dark Imbuement does right now on live. Go respec into SD and take it and have a look.

[SpardaX]

Does your dataset show that significant percentage of active; Level 20 or higher (non-default path) Rogues, have actually taken the "Nimble Fingers" feat: https://ddowiki.com/page/Nimble_Fingers. I could be wrong, but I very much doubt that most will do... Hafeal, mentioned similar in [Post #16].

It would be poor reason to have decided; the feat is so "unpopular", that to make it useful, its main purpose becomes that it can effect a Shadowdancer enhancement. :-/

Quote from overview thread:

Feat Tie-Ins
We're going to try to reclaim as many of the old and sub-optimal feats as we can - for example, an ED ability that grants a significant bonus if you have the Luck of Heroes Feat trained - in ways that would reward you for having them in your build without making them mandatory. Some feats might need additional help, but with this we're going to make an effort to tie a lot of those loose ends up.

You'll also see a lot of abilities that tie into Destiny and Epic feats that are underused or overlooked, such as Embodiment of Chaos/Law and the Bulwark of Defense feat. When these appear, rather than being requirements to train, they will instead apply an additional bonus if you have the feat to reward players who decide to shift their own meta.

End Quote.

Stuff like the Nimble Fingers tie in is there because their dataset shows it's not a feat that is currently picked.

[elvesunited]

Quote from overview thread:

Feat Tie-Ins
We're going to try to reclaim as many of the old and sub-optimal feats as we can - for example, an ED ability that grants a significant bonus if you have the Luck of Heroes Feat trained - in ways that would reward you for having them in your build without making them mandatory. Some feats might need additional help, but with this we're going to make an effort to tie a lot of those loose ends up.

You'll also see a lot of abilities that tie into Destiny and Epic feats that are underused or overlooked, such as Embodiment of Chaos/Law and the Bulwark of Defense feat. When these appear, rather than being requirements to train, they will instead apply an additional bonus if you have the feat to reward players who decide to shift their own meta.

End Quote.

Stuff like the Nimble Fingers tie in is there because their dataset shows it's not a feat that is currently picked.

This works both ways.
Putting a rarely picked feat with a destiny ability might make that feat more desirable.
But putting a rarely picked feat on a destiny ability can also make the destiny ability a lot less desirable.
Most of the time and particularly in the Shadowdancer tree its the latter.

[Zdevor]

Core 1 (level 20): Shadow Training: You gain the Trapfinding feat if you didn't have it already. Each core ability including this one grants +5 Melee Power and +4 Ranged Power, +1 Sneak Attack Dice, as well as 5 Force Spellpower and 5 Universal Spellpower. Each core also grants a +1 Epic bonus to all Spell DCs.


Just an idea to make this Core 1 a bit more fair and useful.
In some trees if U dont have a feat (for example Evasion) the ED tree will grant it for the player.
If the player already has it, it will be improved. (Improved Evasion)
But not this one!!!
What if someone already has the trapfinding feat? (so have minimum 1 lvl of Rogue or Artificer). It would be nice for those players with 1 lvl of Rogue/Artificer this Core will add something useful, for example Watchful Eyes feat or some kind of autodetect. Of course with high enough spot and search needed.
This will free up Epic Feat 3 for some builds so can choose another useful feat instead of Watchful Eyes.
Autodetect is very practical but costs a feat which is expensive and a luxury.
Rogues and Artificers are the 2 main trapfinder/disable classes in DDO. I find it very awkward that an Inquisitor can autodetect trapboxes at lvl 4 (ench tree) and the two main trapper classes have to wait till lvl 27 for the same.
It would be awesome to have autodetect at Epic levels for Shadowdancer Core 1!!!

[JoeCamb02140]

So I've been trying to figure out how to save the new "Consume Shadows" ability since it doesn't look like we are going to get another AoE instakill for non-casters. IF we are set on this course, then how about the following:

Consume Shadow: From-Sneak Active attack. Enemy must make a will save vs 20 + highest ability score + assassinate or be permanently cursed with Shadow Loss.
Shadow Loss. You no longer cast a shadow. (literally. we literally turn their shadow visuals off). In addition, you have -20 PRR and MRR. In addition you receive a +6 circumstance bonus to the DC of your Assassination and tactical feat attempts against this target.

At the very least this gives it some usefulness. It makes it likelier that I can kill the target and gives me an advantage when fighting it. That said, you should not make it have any kind of animation that would interrupt my sneaking up on the target or attacking it. Sneaky characters don't want to do flashy hand gestures or spend a lot of time doing a dance before killing their target. That would defeat the point of being, you know, sneaky. This is a Tier 5 skill. It should feel tier 5, not tier 1. If you wanted to make it even more useful, you could make it give the target a -6 to their Fortification saving throw. Then you add Ninja Spy's Death Touch to the list of things that this would be useful for. That said you would not do both +6 Assassination and -6 Fortification. That would be overkill.

[SpardaX]

This works both ways.
Putting a rarely picked feat with a destiny ability might make that feat more desirable.
But putting a rarely picked feat on a destiny ability can also make the destiny ability a lot less desirable.
Most of the time and particularly in the Shadowdancer tree its the latter.

Yup.

I wasn't really advocating for it. Just, that was the 3rd or 4th post like that i've seen asking "Why make the feat do the thing" and I'm sure if Iv seen 4, there are definitely heaps more because I'm not reading every single thing.

And the answer for good or bad is in the overview. Which means if they'd read the overview they wouldn't ask the question. So I just wanted to bring it to their attention. Cause again, for good or bad, the question HAS an answer that they should have seen, so it's bugging me they keep asking the question.

[Seph1roth5]

I've mentioned it a billion times here and in the discord, but almost every feat that they added synergy to in the new EDs blow. Not only that, but most of the enhancements that synergize WITH a feat blow too. It seems like they're happy with that.

Power critical is garbage, and any of the enhancements that adds a little atk/damage/seeker is probably **** +1/2/3 too. Taking DP and a feat slot is not worth that.

Raise the horrible worse-than-heroic numbers in the EDs, AND make the **** heroic feats you synergize with better. It shouldn't take this much resources and STILL be worse than heroic.

[VinoeWhines]

Disclaimer

Everything seen on the preview server, Lamannia, is not final and is subject to change or removal before live release.

Core 1 (level 20) : Shadow Training: You gain the Trapfinding feat if you didn't have it already. If you have the Trapfinding Feat trained you gain: Watchful Eyes Feat. Each core ability including this one grants +5 Melee Power and +4 Ranged Power, +2 Sneak Attack Dice, as well as 5 Force Spellpower/Spell Crit and 5 Universal Spellpower. Each core also grants a +1 Epic bonus to all Spell DCs.(*Many on the forums are requesting Watchful Eye as thematic to progression of Feats/Enhancements.)

Core 3 (level 23): Step Through Shadow: Dimension Door clickie. 2m cooldown. Also gain: Active Ability: (Cooldown: 90 seconds) Shadow Walk(duration30 seconds) Also, while using weapons that qualify for Weapon Finesse, you gain 3% profane bonus to your chance to doublestrike. This doublestrike bonus applies to attacks made by a Crossbow, dagger, handaxe, kama, kukri, light hammer, light mace, light pick, rapier, shortsword, sickle, quarterstaff or when unarmed or in druid animal form. (**This is Shadow Training IV.)


Core 6 (level 26): The Darkest Luck: You have Evasion, normal Evasion rules apply. If you have Evasion already, you gain Improved Evasion. If you have Improved Evasion already, you no longer fail Reflex Saves automatically(Pretty Nice!) by rolling a 1. In addition, when you roll a natural 20 on a melee or ranged attack, you envelop the target in shadow, granting it 5% vulnerability to physical damage and removing its immunity to sneak attack for a short duration, if applicable (debuff lasts 12 seconds DDO Forums). You gain +2 to your assassinate DC.(***This is already on Live now and can save a spot to free up in Tier IV "The Drop" of this tree, with another option to gain back another Enhancement like Executioner Strike/Shot.)

Tier 1 (req level 20):

• Stealthy: +1/2/3 Reflex Saves, +2/4/6 hide and move silently. Rank 3: Hide in Plane Sight feat. +2/4/6 Assassinate DCs. Is already on Live as it doesn't need to be split up. It also gives another option to add to tier I like a starter/builder for Meld.
• Cover of Darkness: +10/20/30% less threat from all sources. Rank 3: Nightshield permanently
• Well of Darkness: +30/60/100 Spellpoints, +2/4/6 Sneak Attack Dice. Rank 3: +10% Force Absorption
• Meld into Darkness I: Active: Gain 10% uncapped dodge 6/8/10s, cooldown 15 seconds.
• Technician: +2/4/6 to Search, Spot, Disable Device, Open Lock. Rank 3: If you have the Improved Traps Feat/Enhancement your traps have a 20%/30%/40% percent chance at No Save.

Tier 2 (req level 20):

• Shadow Weaponry: +5/10/15% Strikethrough, +3/6/10% Offhand Strike Chance, +1/2/3% Doublestrike and Doubleshot. Rank 3: Gain the Sap Feat, if trained already gain the Stun feat.
• Sleight of Hand: Actve: Create a Mechanical(Shadowy) Spider that crawls to your target(like mechanical spiders from Sharn) and detonate on impact. With chance to knock down target on failed Reflex Save. +2/4/6 UMD. +25/50/75% damage and healing of your wands, scrolls and other items that cast spells. Adds +1/2/3 to the save DC's of your offensive wands. (yes, this is wand and scroll mastery)
• Shadowform: Shadowdancer Destiny Mantle. +25% sneak speed, +30% enhancement bonus to movement speed. Also grants ghost touch on all attacks. You are also less affected by caster movement penalties (if you have this + mobile spellcasting, this will drop the penalty to roughly 0, letting you cast without any movement disruption) When tumbling, you vanish into a cloud of black smoke and can pass through enemies while doing so. (It's on Live already.)
• Epic Strike: Multiselector:
  
  • Shadow Lance: Active: (Cooldown: 15 seconds) Throws 3 Spectral Spears, each dealing [4/6/8]d8 + [18/24/30] Force damage and has a chance to blind target (Fort DC [14/16/18] + character level + save vs 20 + highest ability score + assassinate bonuses). This damage scales with 400% of the higher of your melee or ranged power or 100% Spell Power.
  • Dark Imbuement: Active: Imbues your weapons and spellcasts with Evil energies for 6/8/10s, cooldown 15 seconds.
    
    • Melee/Ranged: You deal 1d2/4/6 per Sneak Attack Dice in Untyped damage on hit (scaling with Melee or Ranged Power, or Force spellpower if its higher), and on a vorpal strike, your attacks blind enemies with no save. This blind lasts 5 seconds and can only apply to each monster once per 60 seconds.
    • Spellcasting: Your Sneak Attack dice are now applied to your harmful spellcasts. Your spells deal 1d2/4/6 Untyped damage per Sneak Attack Dice you have (scaling with Force/Untyped spellpower). This may only trigger once per spellcast per monster, so multi-hit spells will only have one additional damage value.
• Lithe: Passive Bonus: +4/6/10 reflex saves, AC, PRR/MRR and light armor Max Dex Bonus, Rank 3: +5 Force/Universal Spellpower. +5 Sneak Attack to Hit.

Tier 3 (req level 23):

• Depths of Darkness: Your Shadowdancer destiny mantle grants +1/2/3 sneak attack dice and +1/2/3 Spell Penetration. Also gain: When tumbling, you vanish into a cloud of black smoke and can pass through enemies while doing so (As on Live).
• Quick Strike: Multiselector:
  
  • Your Quicken metamagic costs 1/2/3 SP less
  • +2/4/6% Doublestrike and Doubleshot. Rank 3: You gain Quick Draw as a Feat, if trained already, your attacks gain Improved Deception.
• Grim Precision: Bypass 5/10/15% enemy fortification and 1/2/3% enemy dodge.
• Shadowdancer Focus: +1/2/3 Assassinte, Illusion, Necromancy, Enchantment or Abjuration DCs
• Shadowcaster: -15% Cooldowns to Assassinate, Improve Uncanny Dodge, Traps and Spells, Scrolls, Wands and Clicky items. +5 Force/Universal Spellpower.

Tier 4 (req level 26):

• Pierce the Gloom: +1/2/3 Accuracy, to-hit with Sneak attacks, to-hit while flanking. Rank 3: You gain immunity to Silence, Quell, and Blindness. Also Your First Attack will always hit except when you roll a 1 on your attack roll.(60 second cooldown)
• Dark Armor:(Clothe and Light armor) +10/12/14 PRR and MRR,+3/6/10% Dodge, +3/6/10 Force/Universal Spellpower. Rank 3: Immunity to Energy Drain and 5% Incorporeal(Stacking) and Max Dex Bonus.
• Dark Mercy: Your shadowdancer mantle now grants +5/10/15% helplessness damage Meld now grants 30% uncapped dodge(Cloth and Light armor. When enemies miss you in combat while Meld is active, they are blinded by shadows with no save. This blind lasts 5 seconds and can only apply to each monster once per 60 seconds.
• The Drop:Multi-Selector: Executioner's Strike/Shot: Active Ability Multi-Selector: (Cooldown: 12 seconds) Melee or ranged attack. Perform an attack with +[1/2/3][W] damage, +1 critical threat range and +1 critical damage multiplier. If you have the Assassinate Feat On hit: You have a 35/45/55% chance to kill a target instantly if the target fails a Fortitude save (DC 10 + character level + higher of INT/DEX/WIS modifier + Assassination bonuses). Even on successful save target takes an additional [50/75/100] damage from this attack.
  
  • The Drop: Spellcasting: Your Force Spells has a 35% chance to strip away their Spell Resistance for 5 seconds and be vulnerable to 100% Force Spell Critical (Cooldown: 90 seconds) and cause Shadow Strike.
  • Shadow Strike debuff: -3 Spell Resistance, -3 PRR and -3 MRR per stack. Lasts 12 seconds, stacks drop 1 at a time. Max 3 stacks.
• Multiselector:
  
  • Improved Shadow Lance: Your Spectral Spears have attempt to dominate the target for 1 minute (Enemy must make a will save vs 20 + highest ability score + assassinate bonuses), after which it is subject to instant death if it fails a fortitude save (DC 20 + highest ability score + assassinate bonuses). once per 60 seconds.
  • Improved Dark Imbuement now increases your melee range and reduces the cost of all of your metamagics by 1 each. When enemies miss you in combat while Meld is active, they are blinded by shadows with no save. This blind lasts 5 seconds and can only apply to each monster once per 60 seconds.
    
    
    I think the Epic Strikes should be Multi Selectable, exclusive Actives, that way you can select which part of the Mantle you want active, just like you can do when choosing other Tree mantles as you can't have them both on. This way you can at least have the benefit of your Main Tree switchable with in the Tree's Mantle, but will have to choose the second and third Tree's Mantle as is proposed on the Previews.
    This way you get to have the flexibility in your own Destiny Mantle Tree but not being switchable in the other Trees.

Tier 5 (req level 30):

• Improved Shadowform: Adds to your Destiny Mantle: You gain +25% incorp, float as if you had feather fall, +20 hide and move silently, and no longer trigger pressure plate or bear traps. You also are not automatically detected by monsters with Tremor Sense (aka All-Hearing - this is for Spiders and Ooze), but remain detectable by All-Seeing monsters (like Dragons or Reapers). When tumbling, you vanish into a cloud of black smoke and can pass through enemies while doing so and deal Enervation on all melee, ranged and casting, critical hits.
  
• Just a Taste: Toggle: Create a Shadowy Aura around you that deals 1d6 Force damage per character level This damage scales with 400% of the higher of your melee or ranged power or 100% of Spell Power. Your Shadows heal you over time based off of Heal Amp and Spell Power. +1 mult on 19-20 with bows, thrown, crossbows, and finessable melee weapons
  

Multiselector:

• Weird: You gain the Weird spell - AoE Phantasmal Killer, scales off Illusion DC. You must be able to cast level 9 spells. Cooldown 60s, SP cost 50 (matches implosion). DC 20 + highest of int/wis/cha + illusion bonuses
• Consume Shadow: Dissolve into a whorl of shadow, leaving your corporeal form behind. While in this form, you are considered Sneaking and Invisible regardless of what you do. You also gain 3d6 Sneak Attack Dice, 50% Incorporeality, as well as the effects of Dark Imbuement and Meld into Darkness as if they had been fully trained and upgraded. When non-boss enemies PASS BY YOU you in this state, they are slain by their fear, automatically taking a Phantasmal Killer effect with no save. Duration: 20 seconds. Cooldown 60s
  
  
• Enhanced Shadowdancer Spell Focus: +1/2/3 Spell DCs

• Shadow Mastery: Epic Moment: From-Sneak Active attack. Enemies in an area(AOE) must make a will save vs 20 + highest ability score + assassinate or be permanently cursed with Shadow Loss. you are considered Sneaking and Invisible regardless of what you do. You also gain 3d6 Sneak Attack Dice, 50% Incorporeality, as well as the effects of Dark Imbuement and Meld into Darkness as if they had been fully trained and upgraded for 30 seconds. Shadow Loss: You no longer cast a shadow. (literally. we literally turn their shadow visuals off). In addition, you have -20 PRR/MRR/AC and Spell Resistance. Cooldown: 5 minutes.
  
  A cool thing about this is that as a caster you can use spells that are on your list that you normally wouldn't be able to use but since, if Shadow Loss hits, you have the option of using lesser spells to allow you to switch it up for that small moment window of time with a -20 Spell Reistance.

Known Issues:

• The All-Hearing portion of Improved Shadowform is not yet implemented

In spending considerable time in going over past, present and future iterations of Shadow Dancer Tree. It is the hope that all bases were covered in not missing anything as being viable, though not implicitly expressed Quarterstaff should also be included in all melee attacks as well.

As a Suggestion/Request, If there needs to be any deviation from tree, I think it would be constructive to move forward if maybe this could be a base line to add/subtract/change from us, the readers perspective, that way it would be easier for the developers to glean from one template of our Request For Proposals(RFP's) so that they don't get lost in the piles of responses and have the chance of being overlooked due to volumes of information they have to sift through. Especially those that add value with your timely suggestions to work on our Shadow Dancer Tree.

[VinoeWhines]

Consume Shadows title seems to be what Shadow Mastery is doing.

Consuming their shadow and PK'ing them in the process is in line with what Weird is doing and would fit thematically with the Weird equivalent multi-selector.


Weird Multi-Selector:

• Weird: You gain the Weird spell - AoE Phantasmal Killer, scales off Illusion DC.
  
• Consume Shadows: Dissolve into a whorl of shadow, leaving your corporeal form behind. When non-boss enemies miss you in this state, they are slain by their fear, automatically taking a Phantasmal Killer effect.

Shadow Mastery seems what a Master of shadow can remove, a removal of PRR/MRR with a dash of Sneak Attack.

• Shadow Mastery: Epic Moment: From-Sneak Active attack. Enemies in an area(AOE) must make a will save vs 20 + highest ability score + assassinate or be permanently cursed with Shadow Loss. you are considered Sneaking and Invisible regardless of what you do. You also gain 3d6 Sneak Attack Dice, 50% Incorporeality, as well as the effects of Dark Imbuement and Meld into Darkness as if they had been fully trained and upgraded for 30 seconds.
  
• Shadow Loss. You no longer cast a shadow. (literally. we literally turn their shadow visuals off). In addition, you have -20 PRR/MRR/AC and Spell Resistance. Cooldown: 5 minutes.

It seems that flipping them around would fit with it's definition of what it's doing.

Of course an Executioner Strike/Shot equivalent and a Shadow Manipulation tie in as well. Master of Flower got back Everything is Nothing AND they got a Cool Shadow double of themselves as well. That's pretty cool adds to that tree for sure.



I'm hoping Ol' Betsy Shadow Manipulation can come from the rear around this oval race track of an overhaul and catch up to at least to tie, or who know...even win? in these Epic Destiny changes.

[DYWYPI]

I knew prior to Preview 3 the feat Nimble fingers was used by default path Rogue Master Mechanic. I was also aware of the 'Feat Tie-Ins' section [Post #2]. I also thought it was an unfortunate scenario: that to make it useful, its main purpose becomes that it can effect a Shadowdancer enhancement [Post #26]. I even made a reference to Blind Lemon Jefferson elsewhere in that post. :-)

Regarding the "auto reveal" of traps, as a substitute for the planned [Trapfinding] within Core1' I would be STRONGLY opposed. I do exclusively play pure Assassin when in Epics. Although to be honest, I don't really support 'Trapfinding' being there either. I find it disheartening that 'Trapfinding' is being granted there. :-/

Rather than "Trapfinding" perhaps True Seeing or maybe automatically revealing Secret doors of a specific Search DC would be more apt for a more open "Illusion and darkness" based theme. Obviously pure Rogues aren't native casters.

There's hardly been any feedback supporting having Trapfinding within the Shadowdancer cores. Given that both 'Nothing Is Hidden' and 'Mind Like Iron' would already require you to have Trapfinding (or Find Traps) to deal with Traps on Level 6 quests on Elite. That further reduces the relevance or need of 'Trapfinding' appearing in Shadowdancer.

Lynnabel, it's looking more like Trapfinding is placed there for some personal reason rather than practical. I can only really think of about two reasons, at most four, as to why it ever surfaced there. The most logical reason of the four I've mentioned in the paragraph prior; would I be getting warm? It'd possibly solve a lot of confusion if you gave some indication about why 'Trapfinding' is (currently) there.

[SoVeryBelgian]

--
--

I'm not completely putting together what Consume Shadow does in this context? I feel like the choice of words isn't conveying something, either that or I'm just slow on the pick-up.

It also feels like this tree needs a little more oomph as far as direct actions? Since we don't have Executioner's Shot or Shadow Manipulation...

And shouldn't Dark Mercy be called Lethality since you took Lethality out?

[kuzka111]

Disclaimer

Everything seen on the preview server, Lamannia, is not final and is subject to change or removal before live release.

Core 1 (level 20) : Shadow Training: You gain the Trapfinding feat if you didn't have it already. If you have the Trapfinding Feat trained you gain: Watchful Eyes Feat. Each core ability including this one grants +5 Melee Power and +4 Ranged Power, +2 Sneak Attack Dice, as well as 5 Force Spellpower/Spell Crit and 5 Universal Spellpower. Each core also grants a +1 Epic bonus to all Spell DCs.(*Many on the forums are requesting Watchful Eye as thematic to progression of Feats/Enhancements.)

Core 3 (level 23): Step Through Shadow: Dimension Door clickie. 2m cooldown. Also gain: Active Ability: (Cooldown: 90 seconds) Shadow Walk(duration30 seconds) Also, while using weapons that qualify for Weapon Finesse, you gain 3% profane bonus to your chance to doublestrike. This doublestrike bonus applies to attacks made by a Crossbow, dagger, handaxe, kama, kukri, light hammer, light mace, light pick, rapier, shortsword, sickle, quarterstaff or when unarmed or in druid animal form. (**This is Shadow Training IV.)


Core 6 (level 26): The Darkest Luck: You have Evasion, normal Evasion rules apply. If you have Evasion already, you gain Improved Evasion. If you have Improved Evasion already, you no longer fail Reflex Saves automatically(Pretty Nice!) by rolling a 1. In addition, when you roll a natural 20 on a melee or ranged attack, you envelop the target in shadow, granting it 5% vulnerability to physical damage and removing its immunity to sneak attack for a short duration, if applicable (debuff lasts 12 seconds DDO Forums). You gain +2 to your assassinate DC.(***This is already on Live now and can save a spot to free up in Tier IV "The Drop" of this tree, with another option to gain back another Enhancement like Executioner Strike/Shot.)

Tier 1 (req level 20):

• Stealthy: +1/2/3 Reflex Saves, +2/4/6 hide and move silently. Rank 3: Hide in Plane Sight feat. +2/4/6 Assassinate DCs. Is already on Live as it doesn't need to be split up. It also gives another option to add to tier I like a starter/builder for Meld.
• Cover of Darkness: +10/20/30% less threat from all sources. Rank 3: Nightshield permanently
• Well of Darkness: +30/60/100 Spellpoints, +2/4/6 Sneak Attack Dice. Rank 3: +10% Force Absorption
• Meld into Darkness I: Active: Gain 10% uncapped dodge 6/8/10s, cooldown 15 seconds.
• Technician: +2/4/6 to Search, Spot, Disable Device, Open Lock. Rank 3: If you have the Improved Traps Feat/Enhancement your traps have a 20%/30%/40% percent chance at No Save.

Tier 2 (req level 20):

• Shadow Weaponry: +5/10/15% Strikethrough, +3/6/10% Offhand Strike Chance, +1/2/3% Doublestrike and Doubleshot. Rank 3: Gain the Sap Feat, if trained already gain the Stun feat.
• Sleight of Hand: Actve: Create a Mechanical(Shadowy) Spider that crawls to your target(like mechanical spiders from Sharn) and detonate on impact. With chance to knock down target on failed Reflex Save. +2/4/6 UMD. +25/50/75% damage and healing of your wands, scrolls and other items that cast spells. Adds +1/2/3 to the save DC's of your offensive wands. (yes, this is wand and scroll mastery)
• Shadowform: Shadowdancer Destiny Mantle. +25% sneak speed, +30% enhancement bonus to movement speed. Also grants ghost touch on all attacks. You are also less affected by caster movement penalties (if you have this + mobile spellcasting, this will drop the penalty to roughly 0, letting you cast without any movement disruption) When tumbling, you vanish into a cloud of black smoke and can pass through enemies while doing so. (It's on Live already.)
• Epic Strike: Multiselector:
  
  • Shadow Lance: Active: (Cooldown: 15 seconds) Throws 3 Spectral Spears, each dealing [4/6/8]d8 + [18/24/30] Force damage and has a chance to blind target (Fort DC [14/16/18] + character level + save vs 20 + highest ability score + assassinate bonuses). This damage scales with 400% of the higher of your melee or ranged power or 100% Spell Power.
  • Dark Imbuement: Active: Imbues your weapons and spellcasts with Evil energies for 6/8/10s, cooldown 15 seconds.
    
    • Melee/Ranged: You deal 1d2/4/6 per Sneak Attack Dice in Untyped damage on hit (scaling with Melee or Ranged Power, or Force spellpower if its higher), and on a vorpal strike, your attacks blind enemies with no save. This blind lasts 5 seconds and can only apply to each monster once per 60 seconds.
    • Spellcasting: Your Sneak Attack dice are now applied to your harmful spellcasts. Your spells deal 1d2/4/6 Untyped damage per Sneak Attack Dice you have (scaling with Force/Untyped spellpower). This may only trigger once per spellcast per monster, so multi-hit spells will only have one additional damage value.
  
  
• Lithe: Passive Bonus: +4/6/10 reflex saves, AC, PRR/MRR and light armor Max Dex Bonus, Rank 3: +5 Force/Universal Spellpower. +5 Sneak Attack to Hit.

Tier 3 (req level 23):

• Depths of Darkness: Your Shadowdancer destiny mantle grants +1/2/3 sneak attack dice and +1/2/3 Spell Penetration. Also gain: When tumbling, you vanish into a cloud of black smoke and can pass through enemies while doing so (As on Live).
• Quick Strike: Multiselector:
  
  • Your Quicken metamagic costs 1/2/3 SP less
  • +2/4/6% Doublestrike and Doubleshot. Rank 3: You gain Quick Draw as a Feat, if trained already, your attacks gain Improved Deception.
  
  
• Grim Precision: Bypass 5/10/15% enemy fortification and 1/2/3% enemy dodge.
• Shadowdancer Focus: +1/2/3 Assassinte, Illusion, Necromancy, Enchantment or Abjuration DCs
• Shadowcaster: -15% Cooldowns to Assassinate, Improve Uncanny Dodge, Traps and Spells, Scrolls, Wands and Clicky items. +5 Force/Universal Spellpower.

Tier 4 (req level 26):

• Pierce the Gloom: +1/2/3 Accuracy, to-hit with Sneak attacks, to-hit while flanking. Rank 3: You gain immunity to Silence, Quell, and Blindness. Also Your First Attack will always hit except when you roll a 1 on your attack roll.(60 second cooldown)
• Dark Armor:(Clothe and Light armor) +10/12/14 PRR and MRR,+3/6/10% Dodge, +3/6/10 Force/Universal Spellpower. Rank 3: Immunity to Energy Drain and 5% Incorporeal(Stacking) and Max Dex Bonus.
• Dark Mercy: Your shadowdancer mantle now grants +5/10/15% helplessness damage Meld now grants 30% uncapped dodge(Cloth and Light armor. When enemies miss you in combat while Meld is active, they are blinded by shadows with no save. This blind lasts 5 seconds and can only apply to each monster once per 60 seconds.
• The Drop:Multi-Selector: Executioner's Strike/Shot: Active Ability Multi-Selector: (Cooldown: 12 seconds) Melee or ranged attack. Perform an attack with +[1/2/3][W] damage, +1 critical threat range and +1 critical damage multiplier. If you have the Assassinate Feat On hit: You have a 35/45/55% chance to kill a target instantly if the target fails a Fortitude save (DC 10 + character level + higher of INT/DEX/WIS modifier + Assassination bonuses). Even on successful save target takes an additional [50/75/100] damage from this attack.
  
  • The Drop: Spellcasting: Your Force Spells has a 35% chance to strip away their Spell Resistance for 5 seconds and be vulnerable to 100% Force Spell Critical (Cooldown: 90 seconds) and cause Shadow Strike.
  • Shadow Strike debuff: -3 Spell Resistance, -3 PRR and -3 MRR per stack. Lasts 12 seconds, stacks drop 1 at a time. Max 3 stacks.
  
  
• Multiselector:
  
  • Improved Shadow Lance: Your Spectral Spears have attempt to dominate the target for 1 minute (Enemy must make a will save vs 20 + highest ability score + assassinate bonuses), after which it is subject to instant death if it fails a fortitude save (DC 20 + highest ability score + assassinate bonuses). once per 60 seconds.
  • Improved Dark Imbuement now increases your melee range and reduces the cost of all of your metamagics by 1 each. When enemies miss you in combat while Meld is active, they are blinded by shadows with no save. This blind lasts 5 seconds and can only apply to each monster once per 60 seconds.
    
    
    I think the Epic Strikes should be Multi Selectable, exclusive Actives, that way you can select which part of the Mantle you want active, just like you can do when choosing other Tree mantles as you can't have them both on. This way you can at least have the benefit of your Main Tree switchable with in the Tree's Mantle, but will have to choose the second and third Tree's Mantle as is proposed on the Previews.
    This way you get to have the flexibility in your own Destiny Mantle Tree but not being switchable in the other Trees.

Tier 5 (req level 30):

• Improved Shadowform: Adds to your Destiny Mantle: You gain +25% incorp, float as if you had feather fall, +20 hide and move silently, and no longer trigger pressure plate or bear traps. You also are not automatically detected by monsters with Tremor Sense (aka All-Hearing - this is for Spiders and Ooze), but remain detectable by All-Seeing monsters (like Dragons or Reapers). When tumbling, you vanish into a cloud of black smoke and can pass through enemies while doing so and deal Enervation on all melee, ranged and casting, critical hits.
• Just a Taste: Toggle: Create a Shadowy Aura around you that deals 1d6 Force damage per character level This damage scales with 400% of the higher of your melee or ranged power or 100% of Spell Power. Your Shadows heal you over time based off of Heal Amp and Spell Power.

Multiselector:

• Weird: You gain the Weird spell - AoE Phantasmal Killer, scales off Illusion DC. You must be able to cast level 9 spells. Cooldown 60s, SP cost 50 (matches implosion). DC 20 + highest of int/wis/cha + illusion bonuses
• Consume Shadow: Dissolve into a whorl of shadow, leaving your corporeal form behind. While in this form, you are considered Sneaking and Invisible regardless of what you do. You also gain 3d6 Sneak Attack Dice, 50% Incorporeality, as well as the effects of Dark Imbuement and Meld into Darkness as if they had been fully trained and upgraded. When non-boss enemies PASS BY YOU you in this state, they are slain by their fear, automatically taking a Phantasmal Killer effect with no save. Duration: 20 seconds. Cooldown 60s
• Enhanced Shadowdancer Spell Focus: +1/2/3 Spell DCs

• Shadow Mastery: Epic Moment: From-Sneak Active attack. Enemies in an area(AOE) must make a will save vs 20 + highest ability score + assassinate or be permanently cursed with Shadow Loss. you are considered Sneaking and Invisible regardless of what you do. You also gain 3d6 Sneak Attack Dice, 50% Incorporeality, as well as the effects of Dark Imbuement and Meld into Darkness as if they had been fully trained and upgraded for 30 seconds. Shadow Loss: You no longer cast a shadow. (literally. we literally turn their shadow visuals off). In addition, you have -20 PRR/MRR/AC and Spell Resistance. Cooldown: 5 minutes.
  
  A cool thing about this is that as a caster you can use spells that are on your list that you normally wouldn't be able to use but since, if Shadow Loss hits, you have the option of using lesser spells to allow you to switch it up for that small moment window of time with a -20 Spell Reistance.

Known Issues:

• The All-Hearing portion of Improved Shadowform is not yet implemented

In spending considerable time in going over past, present and future iterations of Shadow Dancer Tree. It is the hope that all bases were covered in not missing anything as being viable, though not implicitly expressed Quarterstaff should also be included in all melee attacks as well.

As a Suggestion/Request, If there needs to be any deviation from tree, I think it would be constructive to move forward if maybe this could be a base line to add/subtract/change from us, the readers perspective, that way it would be easier for the developers to glean from one template of our Request For Proposals(RFP's) so that they don't get lost in the piles of responses and have the chance of being overlooked due to volumes of information they have to sift through. Especially those that add value with your timely suggestions to work on our Shadow Dancer Tree.

this atleast

[Gloomfall]

Core 1 (level 20) : Shadow Training: You gain the Trapfinding feat if you didn't have it already. If you have the Trapfinding Feat trained you gain: Watchful Eyes Feat. Each core ability including this one grants +5 Melee Power and +4 Ranged Power, +2 Sneak Attack Dice, as well as 5 Force Spellpower/Spell Crit and 5 Universal Spellpower. Each core also grants a +1 Epic bonus to all Spell DCs.(*Many on the forums are requesting Watchful Eye as thematic to progression of Feats/Enhancements.)

Core 3 (level 23): Step Through Shadow: Dimension Door clickie. 2m cooldown. Also gain: Active Ability: (Cooldown: 90 seconds) Shadow Walk(duration30 seconds) Also, while using weapons that qualify for Weapon Finesse, you gain 3% profane bonus to your chance to doublestrike. This doublestrike bonus applies to attacks made by a Crossbow, dagger, handaxe, kama, kukri, light hammer, light mace, light pick, rapier, shortsword, sickle, quarterstaff or when unarmed or in druid animal form. (**This is Shadow Training IV.)

Tier 1 (req level 20):

• Stealthy: +1/2/3 Reflex Saves, +2/4/6 hide and move silently. Rank 3: Hide in Plane Sight feat. +2/4/6 Assassinate DCs. Is already on Live as it doesn't need to be split up. It also gives another option to add to tier I like a starter/builder for Meld.
• Cover of Darkness: +10/20/30% less threat from all sources. Rank 3: Nightshield permanently
• Well of Darkness: +30/60/100 Spellpoints, +2/4/6 Sneak Attack Dice. Rank 3: +10% Force Absorption
• Meld into Darkness I: Active: Gain 10% uncapped dodge 6/8/10s, cooldown 15 seconds.
• Technician: +2/4/6 to Search, Spot, Disable Device, Open Lock. Rank 3: If you have the Improved Traps Feat/Enhancement your traps have a 20%/30%/40% percent chance at No Save.

Tier 2 (req level 20):


Tier 3 (req level 23):
[*]Dark Armor:(Clothe and Light armor) +10/12/14 PRR and MRR,+3/6/10% Dodge, +3/6/10 Force/Universal Spellpower. Rank 3: Immunity to Energy Drain and 5% Incorporeal(Stacking) and Max Dex Bonus.

Tier 5 (req level 30):

• Improved Shadowform: Adds to your Destiny Mantle: You gain +25% incorp, float as if you had feather fall, +20 hide and move silently, and no longer trigger pressure plate or bear traps. You also are not automatically detected by monsters with Tremor Sense (aka All-Hearing - this is for Spiders and Ooze), but remain detectable by All-Seeing monsters (like Dragons or Reapers). When tumbling, you vanish into a cloud of black smoke and can pass through enemies while doing so and deal Enervation on all melee, ranged and casting, critical hits.
  
• Just a Taste: Toggle: Create a Shadowy Aura around you that deals 1d6 Force damage per character level This damage scales with 400% of the higher of your melee or ranged power or 100% of Spell Power. Your Shadows heal you over time based off of Heal Amp and Spell Power.

Can agree with most of what you have here. I really like the change you made to "Just a Taste", though we'd need some method of gaining our crit multiplier bonus on a roll of 19-20. I've been pushing for better sustain options for Shadowdancer for a LONG time. Unfortunately, having to rely on the clunky behavior of scrolls/wands just isn't feasible for self sustain. It's possible.. just unfun. I do think that scaling 400% with melee/ranged power is just too much though. It should likely scale with 100% or 200%.

Completely agree with the Watchful Eye feat if you already have Trapfinding. This is something that Shiradi already gets out of the gate. Which is a bit confusing to me.

I think that Meld should offer a passive bonus to Dodge and Max Dodge, in addition to a significant reduction to the cooldown time of Uncanny Dodge and Improved Uncanny Dodge. This will make Rogue and Barbarian a bit more attractive options when it comes to the Shadowdancer playstyle. I know that it will probably annoy me to have to press yet another cooldown ability every 15 seconds, that may also have a shared cooldown with other abilities. So might as well enable the abilities we already have to be better. I would prefer this bonus to dodge be an increase of 10% with the upgrade enhancement raising it to 15%, doubled when wearing Light Armor or Clothing.

I do also think that Improved Shadowform should add another 25% or 50% to sneak speed AND should make us invisible while sneaking as well. Additional bonus if we gain Improved Invisibility for a short duration of maybe 10 seconds when exiting stealth once every minute or so.

[Zdevor]

Disclaimer

Everything seen on the preview server, Lamannia, is not final and is subject to change or removal before live release.

Core 1 (level 20) : Shadow Training: You gain the Trapfinding feat if you didn't have it already. If you have the Trapfinding Feat trained you gain: Watchful Eyes Feat. Each core ability including this one grants +5 Melee Power and +4 Ranged Power, +2 Sneak Attack Dice, as well as 5 Force Spellpower/Spell Crit and 5 Universal Spellpower. Each core also grants a +1 Epic bonus to all Spell DCs.(*Many on the forums are requesting Watchful Eye as thematic to progression of Feats/Enhancements.)

Core 3 (level 23): Step Through Shadow: Dimension Door clickie. 2m cooldown. Also gain: Active Ability: (Cooldown: 90 seconds) Shadow Walk(duration30 seconds) Also, while using weapons that qualify for Weapon Finesse, you gain 3% profane bonus to your chance to doublestrike. This doublestrike bonus applies to attacks made by a Crossbow, dagger, handaxe, kama, kukri, light hammer, light mace, light pick, rapier, shortsword, sickle, quarterstaff or when unarmed or in druid animal form. (**This is Shadow Training IV.)


Core 6 (level 26): The Darkest Luck: You have Evasion, normal Evasion rules apply. If you have Evasion already, you gain Improved Evasion. If you have Improved Evasion already, you no longer fail Reflex Saves automatically(Pretty Nice!) by rolling a 1. In addition, when you roll a natural 20 on a melee or ranged attack, you envelop the target in shadow, granting it 5% vulnerability to physical damage and removing its immunity to sneak attack for a short duration, if applicable (debuff lasts 12 seconds DDO Forums). You gain +2 to your assassinate DC.(***This is already on Live now and can save a spot to free up in Tier IV "The Drop" of this tree, with another option to gain back another Enhancement like Executioner Strike/Shot.)

Tier 1 (req level 20):

• Stealthy: +1/2/3 Reflex Saves, +2/4/6 hide and move silently. Rank 3: Hide in Plane Sight feat. +2/4/6 Assassinate DCs. Is already on Live as it doesn't need to be split up. It also gives another option to add to tier I like a starter/builder for Meld.
• Cover of Darkness: +10/20/30% less threat from all sources. Rank 3: Nightshield permanently
• Well of Darkness: +30/60/100 Spellpoints, +2/4/6 Sneak Attack Dice. Rank 3: +10% Force Absorption
• Meld into Darkness I: Active: Gain 10% uncapped dodge 6/8/10s, cooldown 15 seconds.
• Technician: +2/4/6 to Search, Spot, Disable Device, Open Lock. Rank 3: If you have the Improved Traps Feat/Enhancement your traps have a 20%/30%/40% percent chance at No Save.

Tier 2 (req level 20):

• Shadow Weaponry: +5/10/15% Strikethrough, +3/6/10% Offhand Strike Chance, +1/2/3% Doublestrike and Doubleshot. Rank 3: Gain the Sap Feat, if trained already gain the Stun feat.
• Sleight of Hand: Actve: Create a Mechanical(Shadowy) Spider that crawls to your target(like mechanical spiders from Sharn) and detonate on impact. With chance to knock down target on failed Reflex Save. +2/4/6 UMD. +25/50/75% damage and healing of your wands, scrolls and other items that cast spells. Adds +1/2/3 to the save DC's of your offensive wands. (yes, this is wand and scroll mastery)
• Shadowform: Shadowdancer Destiny Mantle. +25% sneak speed, +30% enhancement bonus to movement speed. Also grants ghost touch on all attacks. You are also less affected by caster movement penalties (if you have this + mobile spellcasting, this will drop the penalty to roughly 0, letting you cast without any movement disruption) When tumbling, you vanish into a cloud of black smoke and can pass through enemies while doing so. (It's on Live already.)
• Epic Strike: Multiselector:
  
  • Shadow Lance: Active: (Cooldown: 15 seconds) Throws 3 Spectral Spears, each dealing [4/6/8]d8 + [18/24/30] Force damage and has a chance to blind target (Fort DC [14/16/18] + character level + save vs 20 + highest ability score + assassinate bonuses). This damage scales with 400% of the higher of your melee or ranged power or 100% Spell Power.
  • Dark Imbuement: Active: Imbues your weapons and spellcasts with Evil energies for 6/8/10s, cooldown 15 seconds.
    
    • Melee/Ranged: You deal 1d2/4/6 per Sneak Attack Dice in Untyped damage on hit (scaling with Melee or Ranged Power, or Force spellpower if its higher), and on a vorpal strike, your attacks blind enemies with no save. This blind lasts 5 seconds and can only apply to each monster once per 60 seconds.
    • Spellcasting: Your Sneak Attack dice are now applied to your harmful spellcasts. Your spells deal 1d2/4/6 Untyped damage per Sneak Attack Dice you have (scaling with Force/Untyped spellpower). This may only trigger once per spellcast per monster, so multi-hit spells will only have one additional damage value.
• Lithe: Passive Bonus: +4/6/10 reflex saves, AC, PRR/MRR and light armor Max Dex Bonus, Rank 3: +5 Force/Universal Spellpower. +5 Sneak Attack to Hit.

Tier 3 (req level 23):

• Depths of Darkness: Your Shadowdancer destiny mantle grants +1/2/3 sneak attack dice and +1/2/3 Spell Penetration. Also gain: When tumbling, you vanish into a cloud of black smoke and can pass through enemies while doing so (As on Live).
• Quick Strike: Multiselector:
  
  • Your Quicken metamagic costs 1/2/3 SP less
  • +2/4/6% Doublestrike and Doubleshot. Rank 3: You gain Quick Draw as a Feat, if trained already, your attacks gain Improved Deception.
• Grim Precision: Bypass 5/10/15% enemy fortification and 1/2/3% enemy dodge.
• Shadowdancer Focus: +1/2/3 Assassinte, Illusion, Necromancy, Enchantment or Abjuration DCs
• Shadowcaster: -15% Cooldowns to Assassinate, Improve Uncanny Dodge, Traps and Spells, Scrolls, Wands and Clicky items. +5 Force/Universal Spellpower.

Tier 4 (req level 26):

• Pierce the Gloom: +1/2/3 Accuracy, to-hit with Sneak attacks, to-hit while flanking. Rank 3: You gain immunity to Silence, Quell, and Blindness. Also Your First Attack will always hit except when you roll a 1 on your attack roll.(60 second cooldown)
• Dark Armor:(Clothe and Light armor) +10/12/14 PRR and MRR,+3/6/10% Dodge, +3/6/10 Force/Universal Spellpower. Rank 3: Immunity to Energy Drain and 5% Incorporeal(Stacking) and Max Dex Bonus.
• Dark Mercy: Your shadowdancer mantle now grants +5/10/15% helplessness damage Meld now grants 30% uncapped dodge(Cloth and Light armor. When enemies miss you in combat while Meld is active, they are blinded by shadows with no save. This blind lasts 5 seconds and can only apply to each monster once per 60 seconds.
• The Drop:Multi-Selector: Executioner's Strike/Shot: Active Ability Multi-Selector: (Cooldown: 12 seconds) Melee or ranged attack. Perform an attack with +[1/2/3][W] damage, +1 critical threat range and +1 critical damage multiplier. If you have the Assassinate Feat On hit: You have a 35/45/55% chance to kill a target instantly if the target fails a Fortitude save (DC 10 + character level + higher of INT/DEX/WIS modifier + Assassination bonuses). Even on successful save target takes an additional [50/75/100] damage from this attack.
  
  • The Drop: Spellcasting: Your Force Spells has a 35% chance to strip away their Spell Resistance for 5 seconds and be vulnerable to 100% Force Spell Critical (Cooldown: 90 seconds) and cause Shadow Strike.
  • Shadow Strike debuff: -3 Spell Resistance, -3 PRR and -3 MRR per stack. Lasts 12 seconds, stacks drop 1 at a time. Max 3 stacks.
• Multiselector:
  
  • Improved Shadow Lance: Your Spectral Spears have attempt to dominate the target for 1 minute (Enemy must make a will save vs 20 + highest ability score + assassinate bonuses), after which it is subject to instant death if it fails a fortitude save (DC 20 + highest ability score + assassinate bonuses). once per 60 seconds.
  • Improved Dark Imbuement now increases your melee range and reduces the cost of all of your metamagics by 1 each. When enemies miss you in combat while Meld is active, they are blinded by shadows with no save. This blind lasts 5 seconds and can only apply to each monster once per 60 seconds.
    
    
    I think the Epic Strikes should be Multi Selectable, exclusive Actives, that way you can select which part of the Mantle you want active, just like you can do when choosing other Tree mantles as you can't have them both on. This way you can at least have the benefit of your Main Tree switchable with in the Tree's Mantle, but will have to choose the second and third Tree's Mantle as is proposed on the Previews.
    This way you get to have the flexibility in your own Destiny Mantle Tree but not being switchable in the other Trees.

Tier 5 (req level 30):

• Improved Shadowform: Adds to your Destiny Mantle: You gain +25% incorp, float as if you had feather fall, +20 hide and move silently, and no longer trigger pressure plate or bear traps. You also are not automatically detected by monsters with Tremor Sense (aka All-Hearing - this is for Spiders and Ooze), but remain detectable by All-Seeing monsters (like Dragons or Reapers). When tumbling, you vanish into a cloud of black smoke and can pass through enemies while doing so and deal Enervation on all melee, ranged and casting, critical hits.
  
• Just a Taste: Toggle: Create a Shadowy Aura around you that deals 1d6 Force damage per character level This damage scales with 400% of the higher of your melee or ranged power or 100% of Spell Power. Your Shadows heal you over time based off of Heal Amp and Spell Power.

Multiselector:

• Weird: You gain the Weird spell - AoE Phantasmal Killer, scales off Illusion DC. You must be able to cast level 9 spells. Cooldown 60s, SP cost 50 (matches implosion). DC 20 + highest of int/wis/cha + illusion bonuses
• Consume Shadow: Dissolve into a whorl of shadow, leaving your corporeal form behind. While in this form, you are considered Sneaking and Invisible regardless of what you do. You also gain 3d6 Sneak Attack Dice, 50% Incorporeality, as well as the effects of Dark Imbuement and Meld into Darkness as if they had been fully trained and upgraded. When non-boss enemies PASS BY YOU you in this state, they are slain by their fear, automatically taking a Phantasmal Killer effect with no save. Duration: 20 seconds. Cooldown 60s
  
  
• Enhanced Shadowdancer Spell Focus: +1/2/3 Spell DCs

• Shadow Mastery: Epic Moment: From-Sneak Active attack. Enemies in an area(AOE) must make a will save vs 20 + highest ability score + assassinate or be permanently cursed with Shadow Loss. you are considered Sneaking and Invisible regardless of what you do. You also gain 3d6 Sneak Attack Dice, 50% Incorporeality, as well as the effects of Dark Imbuement and Meld into Darkness as if they had been fully trained and upgraded for 30 seconds. Shadow Loss: You no longer cast a shadow. (literally. we literally turn their shadow visuals off). In addition, you have -20 PRR/MRR/AC and Spell Resistance. Cooldown: 5 minutes.
  
  A cool thing about this is that as a caster you can use spells that are on your list that you normally wouldn't be able to use but since, if Shadow Loss hits, you have the option of using lesser spells to allow you to switch it up for that small moment window of time with a -20 Spell Reistance.

Known Issues:

• The All-Hearing portion of Improved Shadowform is not yet implemented

In spending considerable time in going over past, present and future iterations of Shadow Dancer Tree. It is the hope that all bases were covered in not missing anything as being viable, though not implicitly expressed Quarterstaff should also be included in all melee attacks as well.

As a Suggestion/Request, If there needs to be any deviation from tree, I think it would be constructive to move forward if maybe this could be a base line to add/subtract/change from us, the readers perspective, that way it would be easier for the developers to glean from one template of our Request For Proposals(RFP's) so that they don't get lost in the piles of responses and have the chance of being overlooked due to volumes of information they have to sift through. Especially those that add value with your timely suggestions to work on our Shadow Dancer Tree.

YES! YES AND YES!


PS: Dont limit any of the skills to cloth or light armor.

[slarden]

Weird Multi-Selector:

• Weird: You gain the Weird spell - AoE Phantasmal Killer, scales off Illusion DC.
• Consume Shadows: Dissolve into a whorl of shadow, leaving your corporeal form behind. When non-boss enemies miss you in this state, they are slain by their fear, automatically taking a Phantasmal Killer effect.

I certainly think adding this ability is good, but it shouldn't replace the existing consume shadows and instead should be another option.

At least from my perspective the existing consume shadow with the shadow loss debuff would be more valuable to the group than another instakill in almost every scenario I can think of.

[VinoeWhines]

I certainly think adding this ability is good, but it shouldn't replace the existing consume shadows and instead should be another option.

At least from my perspective the existing consume shadow with the shadow loss debuff would be more valuable to the group than another instakill in almost every scenario I can think of.

I guess you didn't read the full exchange, I suggested to switch it up from Weird multi-selector and use it for the Epic Moment instead so that way Consume Shadow would fit more thematically with Weird as an AOE tick assassination. I also suggested for it to have a debuff AC and Spell Resistance to round out the debuffs.

Multiselector:
Weird: You gain the Weird spell - AoE Phantasmal Killer, scales off Illusion DC. You must be able to cast level 9 spells. Cooldown 60s, SP cost 50 (matches implosion). DC 20 + highest of int/wis/cha + illusion bonuses
Consume Shadow: Dissolve into a whorl of shadow, leaving your corporeal form behind. While in this form, you are considered Sneaking and Invisible regardless of what you do. You also gain 3d6 Sneak Attack Dice, 50% Incorporeality, as well as the effects of Dark Imbuement and Meld into Darkness as if they had been fully trained and upgraded. When non-boss enemies PASS BY YOU you in this state, they are slain by their fear, automatically taking a Phantasmal Killer effect with no save. Duration: 20 seconds. Cooldown 60s

Shadow Mastery: Epic Moment: From-Sneak Active attack. Enemies in an area(AOE) must make a will save vs 20 + highest ability score + assassinate or be permanently cursed with Shadow Loss. you are considered Sneaking and Invisible regardless of what you do. You also gain 3d6 Sneak Attack Dice, 50% Incorporeality, as well as the effects of Dark Imbuement and Meld into Darkness as if they had been fully trained and upgraded for 30 seconds. Shadow Loss: You no longer cast a shadow. (literally. we literally turn their shadow visuals off). In addition, you have -20 PRR/MRR/AC and Spell Resistance. Cooldown: 5 minutes.

[slarden]

I guess you didn't read the full exchange, I suggested to switch it up from Weird multi-selector and use it for the Epic Moment instead so that way Consume Shadow would fit more thematically with Weird as an AOE tick assassination. I also suggested for it to have a debuff AC and Spell Resistance to round out the debuffs.

Multiselector:
Weird: You gain the Weird spell - AoE Phantasmal Killer, scales off Illusion DC. You must be able to cast level 9 spells. Cooldown 60s, SP cost 50 (matches implosion). DC 20 + highest of int/wis/cha + illusion bonuses
Consume Shadow: Dissolve into a whorl of shadow, leaving your corporeal form behind. While in this form, you are considered Sneaking and Invisible regardless of what you do. You also gain 3d6 Sneak Attack Dice, 50% Incorporeality, as well as the effects of Dark Imbuement and Meld into Darkness as if they had been fully trained and upgraded. When non-boss enemies PASS BY YOU you in this state, they are slain by their fear, automatically taking a Phantasmal Killer effect with no save. Duration: 20 seconds. Cooldown 60s

Shadow Mastery: Epic Moment: From-Sneak Active attack. Enemies in an area(AOE) must make a will save vs 20 + highest ability score + assassinate or be permanently cursed with Shadow Loss. you are considered Sneaking and Invisible regardless of what you do. You also gain 3d6 Sneak Attack Dice, 50% Incorporeality, as well as the effects of Dark Imbuement and Meld into Darkness as if they had been fully trained and upgraded for 30 seconds. Shadow Loss: You no longer cast a shadow. (literally. we literally turn their shadow visuals off). In addition, you have -20 PRR/MRR/AC and Spell Resistance. Cooldown: 5 minutes.

Yeah moving it to the epic moment isn't a good thing with the 5 minute cooldown. The debuff should remain with the multiselctor. If they want to add a third instakill ability that is good but taking away the debuff isn't worth it. The debuff adds much more value to a party.

[elvesunited]

Yeah moving it to the epic moment isn't a good thing with the 5 minute cooldown. The debuff should remain with the multiselctor. If they want to add a third instakill ability that is good but taking away the debuff isn't worth it. The debuff adds much more value to a party.

One of the things plaguing many of the destinies is that there are really two types of enemies. Boss fights. And trash mobs. Bosses are giant bags of hp who tend to do moderate damage. Trash mobs are groups of enemies which much more managable levels of hp who can inflict a lot of damage due to their larger numbers ( and in some cases they just hit harder than bosses ) but they can killed quicker and are vulnerable to crowd control and instakills.

Assassins being melees with limited defenses are particularly vulnerable to trash mobs which is why Shadowdancer was popular with them. It allowed them through additional inst-kills thin the herd quickly and reduce mobs to more manageable numbers. But the new shadowdancer replaced all that with an anti-boss debuff that is pretty much useless against trash. It's a strong debuff. ( assuming the boss is capable of failing the save I suspect the big ones have really high saves ) But it still leaves them in the lurch.

The epic strike fixes some of that by potentially greatly increasing the damage, but its not insta-kills.

I'd restore at least one of the insta-kills and move the consume shadow debuff to Tier 4 to replace the Drop.

[VinoeWhines]

Yeah moving it to the epic moment isn't a good thing with the 5 minute cooldown. The debuff should remain with the multiselctor. If they want to add a third instakill ability that is good but taking away the debuff isn't worth it. The debuff adds much more value to a party.

Moving it to an Epic Moment doesn't change the outcome of the ability, as it's permanent. This ability is more in line for a Boss fight and thus it wouldn't expire after it proc'd.
The party has enough debuffing and CCing in a group to kill mobs, that Rogues don't need to add to that pile as -20 PRR/MRR on mobs that are already being controlled/CC'd and being hit with all the other procs going on. Doesn't really add more to party dynamic in dungeon. It is very useful for Boss/Mini or even Red Names, which on a 5 minute cool down could be used about twice a dungeon or so.

Weird is on a 60 second cool down and deals with mobs in the vicinity, so the equivalent of that would be: When non-boss enemies miss you in this state, they are slain by their fear, automatically taking a Phantasmal Killer effect with no save..

Weird is the equivalent to that effect but Weird seems to do it faster. They both should be equal in affect and time.

Debuffing mobs isn't the same as Weird or what it is doing. Multi-Selectors on other Trees give you similar results with different choices on accomplishing it.
I wouldn't mind they add more for the Epic Moment as a Debuffer, like we suggested, if they want to still keep the -20 Debuffer in tree. But if those two are the ones they like, it would make sense to flip them as to what they are doing compared to the choices as a Multi-Selector.

Again the requests we are making is not far off from the template on Live.


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Core 1 (level 20) : Shadow Training: You gain the Trapfinding feat if you didn't have it already. If you have the Trapfinding Feat trained you gain: Watchful Eyes Feat. Each core ability including this one grants +5 Melee Power and +4 Ranged Power, +2 Sneak Attack Dice, as well as 5 Force Spellpower/Spell Crit and 5 Universal Spellpower. Each core also grants a +1 Epic bonus to all Spell DCs.(*Many on the forums are requesting Watchful Eye as thematic to progression of Feats/Enhancements.)

Core 3 (level 23): Step Through Shadow: Dimension Door clickie. 2m cooldown. Also gain: Active Ability: (Cooldown: 90 seconds) Shadow Walk(duration30 seconds) Also, while using weapons that qualify for Weapon Finesse, you gain 3% profane bonus to your chance to doublestrike. This doublestrike bonus applies to attacks made by a Crossbow, dagger, handaxe, kama, kukri, light hammer, light mace, light pick, rapier, shortsword, sickle, quarterstaff or when unarmed or in druid animal form. (**This is Shadow Training IV.)


Core 6 (level 26): The Darkest Luck: You have Evasion, normal Evasion rules apply. If you have Evasion already, you gain Improved Evasion. If you have Improved Evasion already, you no longer fail Reflex Saves automatically(Pretty Nice!) by rolling a 1. In addition, when you roll a natural 20 on a melee or ranged attack, you envelop the target in shadow, granting it 5% vulnerability to physical damage and removing its immunity to sneak attack for a short duration, if applicable (debuff lasts 12 seconds DDO Forums). You gain +2 to your assassinate DC.(***This is already on Live now and can save a spot to free up in Tier IV "The Drop" of this tree, with another option to gain back another Enhancement like Executioner Strike/Shot.)
Tier 1 (req level 20):

Stealthy: +1/2/3 Reflex Saves, +2/4/6 hide and move silently. Rank 3: Hide in Plane Sight feat. +2/4/6 Assassinate DCs. Is already on Live as it doesn't need to be split up. It also gives another option to add to tier I like a starter/builder for Meld.
Cover of Darkness: +10/20/30% less threat from all sources. Rank 3: Nightshield permanently
Well of Darkness: +30/60/100 Spellpoints, +2/4/6 Sneak Attack Dice. Rank 3: +10% Force Absorption
Meld into Darkness I: Active: Gain 10% uncapped dodge 6/8/10s, cooldown 15 seconds.
Technician: +2/4/6 to Search, Spot, Disable Device, Open Lock. Rank 3: If you have the Improved Traps Feat/Enhancement your traps have a 20%/30%/40% percent chance at No Save.


Tier 2 (req level 20):

Shadow Weaponry: +5/10/15% Strikethrough, +3/6/10% Offhand Strike Chance, +1/2/3% Doublestrike and Doubleshot. Rank 3: Gain the Sap Feat, if trained already gain the Stun feat.
Sleight of Hand: Actve: Create a Mechanical(Shadowy) Spider that crawls to your target(like mechanical spiders from Sharn) and detonate on impact. With chance to knock down target on failed Reflex Save. +2/4/6 UMD. +25/50/75% damage and healing of your wands, scrolls and other items that cast spells. Adds +1/2/3 to the save DC's of your offensive wands. (yes, this is wand and scroll mastery)
Shadowform: Shadowdancer Destiny Mantle. +25% sneak speed, +30% enhancement bonus to movement speed. Also grants ghost touch on all attacks. You are also less affected by caster movement penalties (if you have this + mobile spellcasting, this will drop the penalty to roughly 0, letting you cast without any movement disruption) When tumbling, you vanish into a cloud of black smoke and can pass through enemies while doing so. (It's on Live already.)
Epic Strike: Multiselector:
Shadow Lance: Active: (Cooldown: 15 seconds) Throws 3 Spectral Spears, each dealing [4/6/8]d8 + [18/24/30] Force damage and has a chance to blind target (Fort DC [14/16/18] + character level + save vs 20 + highest ability score + assassinate bonuses). This damage scales with 400% of the higher of your melee or ranged power or 100% Spell Power.
Dark Imbuement: Active: Imbues your weapons and spellcasts with Evil energies for 6/8/10s, cooldown 15 seconds.
Melee/Ranged: You deal 1d2/4/6 per Sneak Attack Dice in Untyped damage on hit (scaling with Melee or Ranged Power, or Force spellpower if its higher), and on a vorpal strike, your attacks blind enemies with no save. This blind lasts 5 seconds and can only apply to each monster once per 60 seconds.
Spellcasting: Your Sneak Attack dice are now applied to your harmful spellcasts. Your spells deal 1d2/4/6 Untyped damage per Sneak Attack Dice you have (scaling with Force/Untyped spellpower). This may only trigger once per spellcast per monster, so multi-hit spells will only have one additional damage value.
Lithe: Passive Bonus: +4/6/10 reflex saves, AC, PRR/MRR and light armor Max Dex Bonus, Rank 3: +5 Force/Universal Spellpower. +5 Sneak Attack to Hit.



Tier 3 (req level 23):

Depths of Darkness: Your Shadowdancer destiny mantle grants +1/2/3 sneak attack dice and +1/2/3 Spell Penetration. [COLOR="#00FF00"]Also gain: When tumbling, you vanish into a cloud of black smoke and can pass through enemies while doing so (As on Live).
Quick Strike: Multiselector:
Your Quicken metamagic costs 1/2/3 SP less
+2/4/6% Doublestrike and Doubleshot. Rank 3: You gain Quick Draw as a Feat, if trained already, your attacks gain Improved Deception.
Grim Precision: Bypass 5/10/15% enemy fortification and 1/2/3% enemy dodge.
Shadowdancer Focus: +1/2/3 Assassinte, Illusion, Necromancy, Enchantment or Abjuration DCs
Shadowcaster: -15% Cooldowns to Assassinate, Improve Uncanny Dodge, Traps and Spells, Scrolls, Wands and Clicky items. +5 Force/Universal Spellpower.



Tier 4 (req level 26):

Pierce the Gloom: +1/2/3 Accuracy, to-hit with Sneak attacks, to-hit while flanking. Rank 3: You gain immunity to Silence, Quell, and Blindness. Also Your First Attack will always hit except when you roll a 1 on your attack roll.(60 second cooldown)
Dark ArmorClothe and Light armor/half if wearing Medium or Heavy armor) +10/12/14 PRR and MRR,+3/6/10% Dodge, +3/6/10 Force/Universal Spellpower. Rank 3: Immunity to Energy Drain and 5% Incorporeal(Stacking) and Max Dex Bonus.
Dark Mercy: Your shadowdancer mantle now grants +5/10/15% helplessness damage Meld now grants 30% uncapped dodge(Cloth and Light armor. When enemies miss you in combat while Meld is active, they are blinded by shadows with no save. This blind lasts 5 seconds and can only apply to each monster once per 60 seconds.
The Drop: Multi-Selector:
Executioner's Strike/Shot: Active Ability Multi-Selector: (Cooldown: 12 seconds) Melee or ranged attack. Perform an attack with +[1/2/3][W] damage, +1 critical threat range and +1 critical damage multiplier. If you have the Assassinate Feat On hit: You have a 35/45/55% chance to kill a target instantly if the target fails a Fortitude save (DC 10 + character level + higher of INT/DEX/WIS modifier + Assassination bonuses). Even on successful save target takes an additional [50/75/100] damage from this attack.
The Drop of Spellcasting: Your Force Spells has a 35% chance to strip away their Spell Resistance for 5 seconds and be vulnerable to 100% Force Spell Critical (Cooldown: 90 seconds) and cause Shadow Strike.
Shadow Strike debuff: -3 Spell Resistance, -3 PRR and -3 MRR per stack. Lasts 12 seconds, stacks drop 1 at a time. Max 3 stacks.

Improved Epic Strike Multiselector:
Improved Shadow Lance: Your Spectral Spears have attempt to dominate the target for 1 minute (Enemy must make a will save vs 20 + highest ability score + assassinate bonuses), after which it is subject to instant death if it fails a fortitude save (DC 20 + highest ability score + assassinate bonuses). once per 60 seconds.
Improved Dark Imbuement now increases your melee range and reduces the cost of all of your metamagics by 1 each. When enemies miss you in combat while Meld is active, they are blinded by shadows with no save. This blind lasts 5 seconds and can only apply to each monster once per 60 seconds.


I think the Epic Strikes should be Multi Selectable, exclusive Actives, that way you can select which part of the Mantle you want active, just like you can do when choosing other Tree mantles as you can't have them both on. This way you can at least have the benefit of your Main Tree switchable with in the Tree's Mantle, but will have to choose the second and third Tree's Mantle as is proposed on the Previews.
This way you get to have the flexibility in your own Destiny Mantle Tree but not being switchable in the other Trees.



Tier 5 (req level 30):

Improved Shadowform: Adds to your Destiny Mantle: You gain +25% incorp, float as if you had feather fall, +20 hide and move silently, and no longer trigger pressure plate or bear traps. You also are not automatically detected by monsters with Tremor Sense (aka All-Hearing - this is for Spiders and Ooze), but remain detectable by All-Seeing monsters (like Dragons or Reapers). When tumbling, you vanish into a cloud of black smoke and can pass through enemies while doing so and deal Enervation on all melee, ranged and casting, critical hits.

Just a Taste: Toggle: Create a Shadowy Aura around you that deals 1d6 Force damage per character level This damage scales with 400% of the higher of your melee or ranged power or 100% of Spell Power. Your Shadows heal you over time based off of Heal Amp and Spell Power.


Multiselector:
Weird: You gain the Weird spell - AoE Phantasmal Killer, scales off Illusion DC. You must be able to cast level 9 spells. Cooldown 60s, SP cost 50 (matches implosion). DC 20 + highest of int/wis/cha + illusion bonuses
Consume Shadow: Dissolve into a whorl of shadow, leaving your corporeal form behind. While in this form, you are considered Sneaking and Invisible regardless of what you do. You also gain 3d6 Sneak Attack Dice, 50% Incorporeality, as well as the effects of Dark Imbuement and Meld into Darkness as if they had been fully trained and upgraded. When non-boss enemies PASS BY YOU you in this state, they are slain by their fear, automatically taking a Phantasmal Killer effect with no save. Duration: 20 seconds. Cooldown 60s

Enhanced Shadowdancer Focus: +1/2/3 Spell DCs, 1/2/3 Sneak Dice and 5/10/15 Sneak Attack Damage.

Shadow Mastery: Epic Moment: From-Sneak Active attack. Enemies in an area(AOE) must make a will save vs 20 + highest ability score + assassinate or be permanently cursed with Shadow Loss. you are considered Sneaking and Invisible regardless of what you do. You also gain 3d6 Sneak Attack Dice, 50% Incorporeality, as well as the effects of Dark Imbuement and Meld into Darkness as if they had been fully trained and upgraded for 30 seconds. Shadow Loss: You no longer cast a shadow. (literally. we literally turn their shadow visuals off). In addition, you have -20 PRR/MRR/AC and Spell Resistance. Cooldown: 5 minutes.

A cool thing about this is that as a caster you can use spells that are on your list that you normally wouldn't be able to use but since, if Shadow Loss hits, you have the option of using lesser spells to allow you to switch it up for that small moment window of time with a -20 Spell Reistance and at a 5 minute cooldown, it can't be overused.

[slarden]

Moving it to an Epic Moment doesn't change the outcome of the ability, as it's permanent. This ability is more in line for a Boss fight and thus it wouldn't expire after it proc'd.
The party has enough debuffing and CCing in a group to kill mobs, that Rogues don't need to add to that pile as -20 PRR/MRR on mobs that are already being controlled/CC'd and being hit with all the other procs going on. Doesn't really add more to party dynamic in dungeon. It is very useful for Boss/Mini or even Red Names, which on a 5 minute cool down could be used about twice a dungeon or so.

Weird is on a 60 second cool down and deals with mobs in the vicinity, so the equivalent of that would be: When non-boss enemies miss you in this state, they are slain by their fear, automatically taking a Phantasmal Killer effect with no save..

Weird is the equivalent to that effect but Weird seems to do it faster. They both should be equal in affect and time.

Debuffing mobs isn't the same as Weird or what it is doing. Multi-Selectors on other Trees give you similar results with different choices on accomplishing it.
I wouldn't mind they add more for the Epic Moment as a Debuffer, like we suggested, if they want to still keep the -20 Debuffer in tree. But if those two are the ones they like, it would make sense to flip them as to what they are doing compared to the choices as a Multi-Selector.

Again the requests we are making is not far off from the template on Live.

In that case I am against the change. There are many cases I wouldn't want to wait the 5 minutes and debuffing adds way more to the party than another instakill.

I originally thought you were proposing adding a third option which seemed reasonable, but I don't want to lose the debuff ability to a long timer.