U51 Preview 3: Shadowdancer

[Rauven]

• Improved Shadowform: Adds to your Destiny Mantle: You float as if you had feather fall, +20 hide and move silently, and no longer trigger pressure plate or bear traps. +10 Force/Universal Spellpower

Hi Lynnabel. This current iteration of the tree looks better. I am still going to miss Shadow Manipulation, though. Can you clarify something about Improved Shadowform? The current Shadow Form allows us to phase through enemies when we tumble. Does the new Shadowform, at either the first, second, or third tier, retain that ability?

[Gloomfall]

Hi all!

So much has changed with this tree internally that using any sort of color coding would make it impossible to read, so here's the entire tree again with the changes incorporated. I am also replacing the text of the OP with this just to cause as much confusion as possible....

Some positive changes, some negative changes. One extremely negative change.

1. I like the inclusion of Magical Training, though I feel like it might need something for people who already have it trained. Probably an additional bonus to spellpoints?
2. Through Shadow at Core 3 should also unlock Shadow Walk as well as Dimension Door. There's no reason for it not to.
3. "Depths of Darkness" isn't a bad ability per say, but you removed Dark Armor for this and split those two effects off of the Shadowform and Improved Shadowform effectively watering down those abilities and adding additional cost. It would be nice if there were something else to both Shadowform and Improved Shadowform if you're going to leave this in as is. I put in some additional feedback on this below.
4. Having Meld into Darkness continue to be a short duration click effect that competes with Dark Imbuement still feels... rough. Especially with the fact that it's only a 10-15% dodge increase. At this point, I'd much rather it get baked into Shadowform or Lithe as a passive just granting a bonus 5/10/15% uncapped dodge increase in addition to its normal effects and just get rid of Meld into Darkness click ability entirely.
5. I do like the new Shadowcaster/Shadowstriker multiselector. That's a really positive change from the previous iteration.
6. Consumed by Shadows feels like it should have a longer duration for what it does. Probably closer to 10-12 seconds.

Additionally, I want to focus my feedback specifically on Shadowform and what it grants as an Epic Mantle. By itself it doesn't really add much to write home about. The only real major benefit is in the "Depths of Darkness" passive that you split the concealment and incorporeality onto. With that said, even with those it only offers minor bonuses compared to some other epic mantles.

List of the full benefits.

Shadowform

1. +30% enhancement bonus to movement speed.
2. 25% Insight bonus to Sneak Speed.
3. 25% Insight bonus to Cast Run Speed.
4. Grants ghost touch on all attacks.

The Enhancement Bonus to Movement Speed seems like one of the more stand-out issues as pretty much every Rogue by level 20 SHOULD have a Striding or Speed item equipped that will add 30% to their movement speed. This enhancement bonus will likely never really come up. Especially since Speed Items are a default in most itemization for the melee attack speed that they offer. The Insight Bonus to Sneak Speed is a positive change, and one that is worth having, especially if it's additive and stacks with all other methods of sneak speed increases. The Insight bonus to Cast Run Speed is a positive change, especially if it works with Wands and Scrolls as well as normal spells. Granting Ghost Touch on all attacks is another positive change, but one of limited usefulness. Similar to the Enhancement Bonus to movement speed almost every Rogue will likely have some sort of item with the Ghostly effect on it. This grants ghost touch to all of your attacks anyway.

Limited usefulness with the real only "stand out" bonuses being the Sneak Sped and Cast Run Speed.

Depths of Darkness

1. 25% Incorporeality.
2. 25% Concealment.

Both fairly positive increases and ones that are worth having. Almost every character would have an item of Blur and potentially Lesser Displacement.. so the bonus that the Concealment adds is questionable, but easier and guaranteed access to them is a net positive change. If these bonuses are additive and stacking with existing benefits however, that's a game changer and is very useful to have. When it comes to Incorporeality the same thing can be said that was mentioned before of most characters having a Ghostly item equipped or some other method of gaining some Incorporeality. This bonus is obviously higher than some of those benefits so it is a net positive. My issue is the fact that these were split off of Shadowform and Improved Shadowform and thrust onto their own enhancement. This drastically watered down the benefits of Shadowform and Improved Shadowform when it comes to being the primary Epic Mantle abilities.

Dark Mercy

1. 5/10/15% bonus damage to Helpless targets.

Not personally my favorite direction for a damage bonus, but it seems that all epic destinies are getting this treatment so... I guess it's alright?

Improved Shadowform

1. You float as if you had feather fall
2. +20 hide and move silently
3. No longer trigger pressure plate or bear traps.
4. +10 Force/Universal Spellpower

These bonuses are... questionable at best. Feather fall is an extremely easy effect to get. Even to the point that most characters will likely have an augment simply built into their gear at this point. I don't mind it being there for thematic purposes, but it's not a huge draw for me on the ability. The +20 Hide/Move Silently bonus is also questionable, depending on whether or not it stacks with other bonuses. If this is an enhancement bonus then the benefits are mild at best. If it stacks with other forms of bonuses then I gladly welcome the skill boosts. No longer triggering pressure plates or bear traps is a positive change, and one I look forward to playing with. But it has questionable utility to it as most Rogues will simply jump over those when they detect them or disable them for the bonus. Finally, the +10 Force/Universal Spellpower bonuses are really only there to benefit casters which isn't terrible but doesn't really add much to the power of melee or ranged Shadowdancers.

All in all this Epic Destiny Mantle is... luke warm at best? Compared to something like the Fury Mantle or the Shiradi Mantle and you'll see a very stark difference in combat power.

My suggestions would be the following.

Shadowform
1. Move the +25% Concealment bonus from Depths of Darkness back to the Shadowform ability.
2. Potentially consider removing Meld into Darkness as an activatable "Epic Strike" ability and simply add a 5% bonus as a passive uncapped dodge to Shadowform.


Depths of Darkness
1. Increase the Sneak Speed bonus from Shadowform to 50%.
2. Increase the Passive Uncapped Dodge bonus from Shadowform by 5% to a total of 10%.
3. Add back the much requested ability to tumble through enemies by disappearing into a puff of smoke, that Shadowdancer already has on Live.

Improved Shadowform
1. Increase the Sneak Speed bonus from Shadowform to 75%.
2. Increase the Passive Uncapped Dodge bonus from Shadowform by another 5% to a total of 15%.
3. Consider adding an additional stacking Incorporeality and/or Concealment bonus.
4. Potentially consider giving something like a vampiric effect on melee/ranged attacks that scales with the higher of melee/ranged power and a vampiric effect on spells that scales on spellpower.

Finally, I will once again shout out my desire for an Invisibility effect while stealthed for the Shadowdancer.

I would also LOVE to see a buff/rework for the Mechanic Enhancement Tree for Rogue and have a ton of feedback for that whenever you're ready for it.

[Seph1roth5]

Looks pretty good, a lot of enhancements (is that what we call them?) have definitely improved a lot from the other previews/trees with sad sad numbers. Few things

Core 3 - Why the 2 min cooldown on DD? Normal is 30s I think. I can't see it being abusive (or it would be for all spellcasters), and a 2 min cooldown just makes mistakes like someone missing a DD more annoying.

Technician - loads better, but I'd still like the **** feats like nimble fingers brought up some. Regardless of synergy there's a lot of feats out there that blow lol.

Shadowform Mantle - Like many have said, 30% movement speed is worthless. Maybe an insight boost for normal movement, even if it's just 5-10? The other movement speeds are nice bumps.

Paranois - unsure of the wording, does this mean fireball will do this SA for every monster hit? I've played arcane tricksters before and they're pretty difficult to make not suck. The fact that multi-hitting spells like scorching ray trigger sneak attack is a big help. That and HP is much much lower (MUCH) in tabletop. So being able to add your SA dice to spells, even with the melee/ranged/force power boost, seems a little low. Maybe bump up the dice to d10s? I just can't imagine any sort of caster with enough sneak attack, even with the tree's bonuses, accomplishing much. Love the idea though. Maybe just let it trigger on multi hits lol, would be cool to get new use out of scorching ray, dots, ice storm, etc.

Pierce the Gloom - just a bit on the weak side, because blindness is easy to stop, quell only annoying to some, and silence rarely comes up. Not sure if that's +1/2/3 hit while sneaking and ANOTHER 1/2/3 while flanking also. Any way to make yourself immune to other graphical messes, like shadowfell?

From the Shadows - cool idea but lacking info. What's the range, cooldown? Does it trigger a load like when going through a DD?

Bring Darkness - First blood also blows. Still not understanding the interaction with this ability and first blood though. If you have both, your spells cause the debuff on hit as long as they're above 90% hp? First blood needs a boost.

Improved Shadowform - like someone mentioned, most of these don't matter that much. I'd say it could all be in the base form of the mantle really, and change the t5 mantle to other stuff (and bring it down to 29)

Weird/Consumed by Shadow - uhhhh these are better epic moments than the epic moments in the trees lol. I mean that in a good way, they have a great balance of power/cooldown.

Epic Moment - still don't like anyone's epic moment. The 5 min cooldown just kills it. It's a cool idea but just so long cooldown, really only sounds useful in high high reaper? Unless "non-boss" doesn't apply to red named stuff? That'd be worth it lol.

Overall a lot of good stuff I like.

[Pandjed]

Shadowform Mantle - Like many have said, 30% movement speed is worthless. Maybe an insight boost for normal movement, even if it's just 5-10? The other movement speeds are nice bumps.

I think the 30% are not considered balance-wise at all and are more there to make better use of your sneak speed. Even if you don't count it, the improve in sneak and cast speed is enough to consider taking it for the intended playstyles (plus Ghosttouch, I guess).
You now, it's entirely possible to add something to an enhancement because it fits or is there to support something else, without counting that something towards the balance.

Paranois - unsure of the wording, does this mean fireball will do this SA for every monster hit?

You don't sneak attack with Paranoia, the sneak attack dice you have are just plainly added to your damage. With the wording, a fireball will do its normal damage and the additional damage to every target. Whether this is enough or not will mostly depend on your build, as you're right, pure casters will only be able to get 10 SA-dice maximum (from this tree and halfling) +3 from active Epic Moment, plus whatever might be possible with gear (not up-to-date for every gear set). With the latest force support item-wise, in feydark, and this tree, this may work out better than expected. Especially if you add some SA dice from a class split.

Still not understanding the interaction with this ability and first blood though. If you have both, your spells cause the debuff on hit as long as they're above 90% hp?.

You're right: Debuff is brought when you hit your target with attacks or spells while it's at 90%.

[Pandjed]

Remember when I said, a caster can get 10 SA dice? Forget about it. Let's introduce the halfling wraith wizard.

3 from halfling, 4 from PM wraith form (requires tier 5), +3 from item set, +7 from this tree, +6 of Scion of Etheral and we got 23 Sneak attack dice without even taking monk or rogue levels (which each translates to 1 potential per level up to 4, though would be hard point-wise to get them all). Takes 16 points in halfling, 32 in Pake Master and then you can get creative.

Too bad I won't be able to test it on Lamannia.

[Gloomfall]

...

Just to give a comparison in terms of combat "power" for an Epic Destiny Mantle, I present to you Shiradi Champion.

Prism: Shiradi Champion Destiny Mantle: Your ranged and thrown attacks have a 15% chance to deal 3d100+100 extra damage of a random type. This damage scales with 200% Ranged Power. Your offensive spells have a 30% chance to deal 3d100+200 extra damage of a random type. This damage scales with 100% of the type's Spell Power.

Stay: Multiselector:
Stay Good: While in your Prism stance, Ranged and thrown attacks have a 15% chance to deal 1d100+60/2d100+120/3d100+180 extra light damage. Your offensive spells have a 30% chance to proc this damage. This Light damage scales with 200% Ranged Power if from a Ranged attack, or 200% Light Spell Power if from a spell. Rank 3: Enemies hit by your ranged attacks have a 20% chance to be blinded for 10 seconds. Enemies hit by your offensive spells have a 30% chance to be blinded for 10 seconds.
Stay Frosty: While in your Prism stance, Ranged and thrown attacks have a 15% chance to deal 1d100+60/2d100+120/3d100+180 extra cold damage. Your offensive spells have a 30% chance to proc this damage. This Light damage scales with 200% Ranged Power if from a Ranged attack, or 200% Cold Spell Power if from a spell. Rank 3: Enemies hit by your ranged attacks have a 20% chance to be slowed for 10 seconds. Enemies hit by your offensive spells have a 30% chance to be slowed for 10 seconds.

Double Rainbow: While in your Prism Mantle, your ranged and thrown attacks have a 7% chance to inflict a random effect on your target. Your offensive spells have a 14% chance to proc these effects. These effects scale with various different things depending on their origins, including Melee, Ranged, and Spell Power.

Still: Multiselector:
Stay Still: While in Prism stance, your ranged and thrown attacks and offensive spells have a 7% chance to paralyze living creatures for 6 seconds. Requires Stay Good.
Stay Frozen: While in Prism stance, your ranged and thrown attacks and offensive spells have a 7% chance to freeze living creatures for 6 seconds. Requires Stay Frosty.

So, with just the Destiny Mantle abilities you're looking at the following.

Ranged/Thrown Weapons
1. 15% chance to deal 3d100+100 extra damage of a random type. This damage scales with 200% Ranged Power.
2. 15% chance to deal 1d100+60/2d100+120/3d100+180 extra light or cold damage, depending on your selection. This damage scales with 200% Ranged Power. Rank 3: Enemies hit by your ranged attacks have a 20% chance to be blinded or slowed depending on your selection for 10 seconds.
3. 7% chance to paralyze or freeze living creatures for 6 seconds, depending on your selection.
4. 7% chance to inflict a random effect on your target. These effects scale with various different things depending on their origins, including Melee, Ranged, and Spell Power.

Spellcasting
1. 30% chance to deal 3d100+200 extra damage of a random type. This damage scales with 100% of the type's Spell Power.
2. 30% chance to deal 1d100+60/2d100+120/3d100+180 extra light or cold damage, depending on your selection. This damage scales with 200% Light or Cold Spell Power. Rank 3: Enemies hit by your offensive spells have a 30% chance to be blinded or slowed depending on your selection for 10 seconds.
3. 7% chance to paralyze or freeze living creatures for 6 seconds, depending on your selection.
4. 14% chance to proc these effects. These effects scale with various different things depending on their origins, including Melee, Ranged, and Spell Power.

With the Epic Moment, it feeds into this MASSIVELY. See the Epic Moment Shiradi Champions have for example.

Inexorable Advance: Epic Moment: For 30 seconds, you gain +30 Ranged Power, can move while still gaining Archer's Focus stacks, and you do not take the normal 20% damage penalty while using Improved Precise Shot. You also gain 30% Action Boost bonus to Movement Speed for the duration. In addition, your Ranged attacks have a 100% chance to deal 3d100+180 Cold damage and 3d100+180 Light damage which scale with 200% Ranged Power in addition to Stay Good or Stay Frosty. Finally, your Ranged attacks in this state have a 100% chance to proc Double Rainbow effects. Cooldown: 5 minutes.

30% Action Boost to Movement Speed (stacks with enhancement bonus) and a 100% chance to deal 3d100+180 Cold Damage and 3d100+180 Light Damage that scales 200% with Ranged Power in addition to Blinding and Slowing your targets. You're also guaranteed to layer a ton of various effects onto your targets INCLUDING the potential for an instant death effect.

Compared to Featherfall, some Incorporeality and Concealment, and the ability to ignore floor traps.. It's kind of insulting when I compare them.

When testing with Shiradi Champion, I was able to get attacks that hit for over 16,000 damage. It was pretty silly.

[wax_on_wax_off]

What about:

Shadow Loss: Shadows are now absorbed and provide buffs.

Epic Moment: Enemies' Shadows begin attacking them. Any absorbed Shadows are released and attack as well.

Shadow Defender: the Shadowdancers' Shadow provides defense attacking enemies that attack and deflecting arrows/spells and can be activated to detach from the Shadowdancer and fight separately for a short time.

[Natashaelle]

I think Shadow Loss would be more fun if it conjured a Shadow that attacked the target preferentially, then other targets in that location (but would not follow the Shadowdancer character around like a normal Summoned creature).

[slarden]

Just to give a comparison in terms of combat "power" for an Epic Destiny Mantle, I present to you Shiradi Champion.

Prism: Shiradi Champion Destiny Mantle: Your ranged and thrown attacks have a 15% chance to deal 3d100+100 extra damage of a random type. This damage scales with 200% Ranged Power. Your offensive spells have a 30% chance to deal 3d100+200 extra damage of a random type. This damage scales with 100% of the type's Spell Power.

Stay: Multiselector:
Stay Good: While in your Prism stance, Ranged and thrown attacks have a 15% chance to deal 1d100+60/2d100+120/3d100+180 extra light damage. Your offensive spells have a 30% chance to proc this damage. This Light damage scales with 200% Ranged Power if from a Ranged attack, or 200% Light Spell Power if from a spell. Rank 3: Enemies hit by your ranged attacks have a 20% chance to be blinded for 10 seconds. Enemies hit by your offensive spells have a 30% chance to be blinded for 10 seconds.
Stay Frosty: While in your Prism stance, Ranged and thrown attacks have a 15% chance to deal 1d100+60/2d100+120/3d100+180 extra cold damage. Your offensive spells have a 30% chance to proc this damage. This Light damage scales with 200% Ranged Power if from a Ranged attack, or 200% Cold Spell Power if from a spell. Rank 3: Enemies hit by your ranged attacks have a 20% chance to be slowed for 10 seconds. Enemies hit by your offensive spells have a 30% chance to be slowed for 10 seconds.

Double Rainbow: While in your Prism Mantle, your ranged and thrown attacks have a 7% chance to inflict a random effect on your target. Your offensive spells have a 14% chance to proc these effects. These effects scale with various different things depending on their origins, including Melee, Ranged, and Spell Power.

Yes the reduction in debuff is hard to understand when looking at other destinies. If they are toning down some other trees it might make more sense.

This makes it a trifecta. Literally the main 3 abilities in the EDs I provided high positive feedback on were taken away or highly nerfed.

[wax_on_wax_off]

I think Shadow Loss would be more fun if it conjured a Shadow that attacked the target preferentially, then other targets in that location (but would not follow the Shadowdancer character around like a normal Summoned creature).

Absorbing Shadows for stacking buffs and then releasing all stored shadows during the Epic moment is, well, Epic. Imagine killing mobs over a 5 minute cool down and then releasing them all at once in a fury of swirling shadows that kill everything. As long as 50% of the cool down has expired then it could also provide a protection from death effect which temporarily reanimates the character with absorbed Shadow energy with a duration determined by the amount of Shadows absorbed (ala Jibbers).

This combined with a Shadowdancer who's own shadow attacks enemies and provides defense and can be given tasks. The Shadowdancer could learn a new task at each tier for example: distract, envelop (blind), defend, mercy kill, assassinate. Envelop, defend and mercy kill could all be on autocast: envelop could automatically blind a Ranged or spellcasting enemy targeting the player, defend could automatically defends a party member under 50% health and mercy kill could automatically attempt to kill an enemy under 30% health. For example.

Let's make it Epic!

[Tentaki]

Hi all!

So much has changed with this tree internally that using any sort of color coding would make it impossible to read, so here's the entire tree again with the changes incorporated. I am also replacing the text of the OP with this just to cause as much confusion as possible.

Core 1 (level 20 NOT 21!): Shadow Training: You gain the Magical Training feat if you didn't have it already. Each core ability including this one grants +5 Melee Power and +4 Ranged Power, +1 Sneak Attack Dice, 50 Spellpoints, and 5 Force Spellpower and 5 Universal Spellpower.

Core 3 (level 23): Step Through Shadow: Dimension Door clickie. 2m cooldown.

Core 6 (level 26): The Darkest Luck: You have Evasion, normal Evasion rules apply. If you have Evasion already, you gain Improved Evasion. If you have Improved Evasion already, you no longer fail Reflex Saves automatically by rolling a 1.

Regarding the cores, is the +1 Epic Spell DC per core gone now?

[DYWYPI]

Lynnabel, I believe you were meaning to type: Hide in Pla[in] Sight?

[...] I am also replacing the text of the OP with this just to cause as much confusion as possible. ...

It's a shame these vBulletin boards haven't got the Strikethrough function enabled, you wouldn't need as many colouring pencils or a rubber (eraser).

Are you still planning on adding a "pass through enemy" function during tumble as per 'Shadow Form', which several people actually keep asking for... It's ridiculous that you can float over traps, which is an exploit. Albeit you cannot pass through enemies at that stage as per the current 'Shadow Form' on live - shake one's head. I'm not asking for any type of damage or speed boost; it's for diversity and tactical movement purposes, e.g. stealth related functions. For example when things "go south" with monsters hemming you in (or lag) and your screen is choked full of mobs and you cannot see anything other, it allows an escape or re-positioning route. She primarily uses dual daggers, not a sweeping quarterstaff.

[...] The All-Hearing portion of Improved Shadowform is not yet implemented. ...

Has that idea also been scrapped, i.e. the being able to bypass tremor sense or just got lost in this recent translation?

Lynnabel, do you happen to know (when you are in stealth) if the monster 'visual detection' range: is still 18 metre (metre is the correct spelling for a unit of length).

Can we have the new smoky Shadowform animation in cloudy pink please.

[Xgya]

NOW, the tree feels much smoother.

The Epic Moment FEELS like an Epic Moment for sure.
Extra miss chances, and people that miss you die outright. Lovely.

Guessing that part of the Moment won't work on things normally immune to Phantasmal?

Love the change to Meld.

[Tilomere]

Let's introduce the halfling wraith wizard.... we got 23 Sneak attack dice without even taking monk or rogue levels

I'll see your halfling wraith wizard, and raise you halfling hellball great crossbow rogue mechanic with prism stance and first blood!

Hellfire Halfling!

[slarden]

Regarding the cores, is the +1 Epic Spell DC per core gone now?

Yeah I really don't understand why he decided to remove the DCs. The devs really confuse me.

[Arkat]

(metre is the correct spelling for a unit of length).

In Europe, it may be. But in the US, it ain't.

[kuzka111]

Hi all!

So much has changed with this tree internally that using any sort of color coding would make it impossible to read, so here's the entire tree again with the changes incorporated. I am also replacing the text of the OP with this just to cause as much confusion as possible.

Core 1 (level 20 NOT 21!): Shadow Training: You gain the Magical Training feat if you didn't have it already. Each core ability including this one grants +5 Melee Power and +4 Ranged Power, +1 Sneak Attack Dice, 50 Spellpoints, and 5 Force Spellpower and 5 Universal Spellpower.

Core 3 (level 23): Step Through Shadow: Dimension Door clickie. 2m cooldown.

Core 6 (level 26): The Darkest Luck: You have Evasion, normal Evasion rules apply. If you have Evasion already, you gain Improved Evasion. If you have Improved Evasion already, you no longer fail Reflex Saves automatically by rolling a 1.

Tier 1 (req level 20):

• Stealthy: +1/2/3 Reflex Saves, +2/4/6 hide and move silently. Rank 3: Hide in Plane Sight feat.
• Cover of Darkness: +10/20/30% less threat from all sources. Rank 3: Nightshield permanently
• Well of Darkness: +30/60/100 Spellpoints, Rank 3: +5 Force/Universal Spellpower
• Assassinate: +2/4/6 Assassinate DCs.
• Technician: +2/4/6 to Search, Spot, Disable Device, Open Lock. Rank 3: If you have the Nimble Fingers feat, +1 sneak attack dice.

Tier 2 (req level 20):

• Dance in the Dark: +1/2/3 Sneak Attack Dice
• Sleight of Hand: +2/4/6 UMD. +25/50/75% damage and healing of your wands, scrolls and other items that cast spells. Adds +1/2/3 to the save DC's of your offensive wands.
• Shadowform: Shadowdancer Destiny Mantle. Grants +30% enhancement bonus to movement speed, 25% Insight bonus to Sneak Speed, 25% Insight bonus to Cast Run Speed, and grants ghost touch on all attacks.
• Multiselector:
  
  • Shadowstrike (melee or ranged): Epic Strike: +5W, +3 Threat and Mult. Enemy must make a fort save vs (20 + highest ability score + assassinate) or be cursed with Shadow Loss. Cooldown: 10 seconds.
  • Nightmare Lance (spell): Epic Strike: Illusion Spell, deals 1d6+6 Force damage per caster level. Enemies must make a will save vs (20 + highest ability score + illusion bonuses + fear bonuses) or be cursed with Shadow Loss. Cooldown: 10 seconds.
    
    • Shadow Loss. You no longer cast a shadow. In addition, you have -5 PRR, MRR, and Spell Resistance.
  
  
• Lithe: Passive Bonus: +2/4/6 reflex saves, AC and light armor Max Dex Bonus, Rank 3: +5 Force/Universal Spellpower.

Tier 3 (req level 23):

• Depths of Darkness: While in your Shadowdancer Destiny Mantle, you gain 25% Incorporeality and 25% Concealment.
• Multiselector:
  
  • Meld into Darkness: Your Epic Strike now grants you 10% uncapped dodge for 10s
  • Dark Imbuement: Your Epic Strike now imbues your weapons with Evil energies for 10s: You deal 1d6 per Sneak Attack Dice in Untyped damage on hit (scaling with Melee or Ranged Power, or Force spellpower if its higher), and on a vorpal strike, your attacks blind enemies with no save. This blind lasts 5 seconds and can only apply to each monster once per 60 seconds.
  • Paranoia: Your Epic Strike now imbues your spells with Evil energies for 10s: Your Sneak Attack dice are now applied to your harmful spellcasts. Your spells deal 1d6 Untyped damage per Sneak Attack Dice you have (scaling with Melee or Ranged Power, or Force spellpower if its higher). This may only trigger once per spellcast per monster, so multi-hit spells will only have one additional damage value.
  
  
• Grim Precision: +1/2/3 Spell Penetration, and you bypass 5/10/15% enemy fortification.
• Shadowdancer Spell Focus: +1/2/3 Illusion, Necromancy, Enchantment or Abjuration DCs
• Multiselector:
  
  • Shadowcaster: -10% Spell Cooldowns. Immunity to Energy Drain.
  • Shadowstriker: +5% Doublestrike and Doubleshot. Immunity to Energy Drain.

Tier 4 (req level 26):

• Pierce the Gloom: +1/2/3 Accuracy, to-hit with Sneak attacks, to-hit while flanking. Rank 3: You gain immunity to Silence, Quell, and Blindness.
• From the Shadows: From-Stealth Active: From a stealthed position, dissolve into shadows, before appearing some distance in front of you. This grants you the buffs from your Shadowdancer Epic strike if you have them trained.
• Dark Mercy: Your Shadowdancer mantle now grants you +5/10/15% helplessness damage.
• Bring Darkness: When you roll a natural 20 on a melee or ranged attack, you envelop the target in shadow, applying the Darkness debuff. If you have the feat First Blood, the trigger of First Blood now also applies the Darkness debuff, and First Blood now triggers on Harmful Spellcasts.
  
  • Darkness: You are no longer immune to Sneak Attacks. -3 Spell Resistance, -3 PRR and -3 MRR per stack. Lasts 12 seconds, stacks drop 1 at a time. Max 3 stacks.
  
  
• Multiselector:
  
  • Linger in the Dark: Meld now grants 15% uncapped dodge. When enemies miss you in combat while Meld is active, they are blinded by shadows with no save. This blind lasts 5 seconds and can only apply to each monster once per 60 seconds.
  • Long Shadows: Dark Imbuement now increases your melee range.
  • Shadowed Insight: Paranoia now reduces the cost of all of your metamagics by 1 each.

Tier 5 (req level 30):

• Improved Shadowform: Adds to your Destiny Mantle: You float as if you had feather fall, +20 hide and move silently, and no longer trigger pressure plate or bear traps. +10 Force/Universal Spellpower
• Just a Taste: +1 mult on 19-20 with bows, thrown, crossbows, quarterstaves, and finessable melee weapons
• Multiselector:
  
  • Weird: You gain the Weird spell - AoE Phantasmal Killer, scales off Illusion DC. You must be able to cast level 9 spells. Cooldown 60s, SP cost 50 (matches implosion). DC 20 + highest of int/wis/cha + illusion bonuses
  • Consumed by Shadows: From-Sneak Active attack. Enemy must make a will save vs 20 + highest ability score + assassinate or be beset by your shadow. Enemies affected have their AC set to 0 for 5 seconds, and when they are hit, they take a stack of Vulnerability. Cooldown: 30 seconds.
  
  
• Enhanced Shadowdancer Spell Focus: +1/2/3 Spell DCs
• Shadow Mastery: Epic Moment: Dissolve into a whorl of shadow, leaving your corporeal form behind. While in this form, you are considered Sneaking and Invisible regardless of what you do. You also gain 3d6 Sneak Attack Dice, 50% Incorporeality, as well as the effects your Epic Strike as if they had been fully trained and upgraded. When non-boss enemies miss you in this state, they are slain by their fear, automatically taking a Phantasmal Killer effect with no save. Duration: 20 seconds. Cooldown: 5 minutes.

As always, we appreciate your feedback. If you have further suggestions, questions, or thoughts, please feel free to post them below!

2-3 more prev's and you can rename it SHADOWCASTER or make it arcane trickster (bc this is not a shadowdancer anymore)

i corss my fingres for new Assassin/Acrobat tree bc this tree is max for backup

[Ganak]

Thanks for the continued refinement!

Would you consider adding +1(W) to:

Long Shadows: Dark Imbuement now increases your melee range.

Thought process: Taking this is forgoing Meld, a tough choice.

By the way, what can you share about the mechanics/%increase in range distance with this one? What is the data behind the increase?



For: Just a Taste: +1 mult on 19-20 with bows, thrown, crossbows, quarterstaves, and finessable melee weapons

What are the mechanics behind Tier2 of the heroic tempest enhancement Tempest (the T2 core named 'Tempest').

Tempest: You now treat Scimitars as if they were light Melee weapons.

With this, are scimitars considered finessable for 'Just a Taste'?

[VinoeWhines]

So much has changed with this tree internally that using any sort of color coding would make it impossible to read, so here's the entire tree again with the changes incorporated. I am also replacing the text of the OP with this just to cause as much confusion as possible.

(That's a cool rogue move, causing confusion, sneaky...sneaky. It'd be nice to get that sneaky technique in the tree, like the Mass Confusion in Shiradi:

• Mass Chaos: Epic Moment: Enemies in an area are Confused with no save for 30 seconds, gain a stack of Fey Chaos, and apply a stack of Fey Chaos on hitting non-Player, non-Hireling targets while Confused. 5 minute cooldown.

• Fey Chaos: This creature takes 5% more damage from all sources for 10 seconds. This effect can stack up to 10 times, and all stacks expire after not gaining new ones for 10 seconds. This effect works on Bosses and Raid Bosses.

Tier 2 (req level 20):

• Sleight of Hand: +2/4/6 UMD. +25/50/75% damage and healing of your wands, scrolls and other items that cast spells. Adds +1/2/3 to the save DC's of your offensive wands.

Is this going to affect "Clickies" on items/gear?

Appreciate the improvements on the Shadow Dancer Destiny Tree.

We are still pulling for a Consume, and Executioner Strike/Shot options in here.

They are saying every tree has a form of Crowd Control in it, Shadow Manipulation was ours.
Everything is Nothing is nice in GMOF Tree, Consume was our equivalent.


Cut the Strings is pretty cool too. We are asking for something back in our Tree that was there before, but these new "adds" to other Trees are very nice.
We are just asking for similar options in our Tree as well. The changes are welcome and it's definitely getting closer and almost there.

This is cool:
Cut the Strings: SLA. Strike a note to reveal the cords of fate so you might cut them. All monsters within a wide radius around you are forced to dance (Will vs DC:20 + DEX/INT/CHA + Enchantment) pulled by the strings of fate for 10 seconds. In Addition for 10 seconds your character gains the ability to cut their strings with any weapon strike or spell at a rate of once per second, instantly killing them. Bosses if they fail their save do not dance but will take an additional 100 sonic damage that scales with spell power when attacked by you in melee for the duration of the effect. Cooldown: 60 second.


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Tier 5 (req level 30):

• Improved Shadowform: Adds to your Destiny Mantle: You float as if you had feather fall, +20 hide and move silently, and no longer trigger pressure plate or bear traps. +10 Force/Universal Spellpower (Please add back our: When tumbling, you vanish into a cloud of black smoke and can pass through enemies while doing so. It's on Live already.)
  
• Just a Taste of Shadows: Multiselector:
• (Sovereign) Vorpal Strike/Shot: Perform an attack with +[1/2/3][W] damage, +1 mult on 19-20 with bows, thrown, crossbows, quarterstaves, and finessable melee weapons. Rank 3. On a Vorpal Strike: If your target has fewer than 3000 hit points, it is instantly slain. If your target has above 3000 hit points, it takes 300 damage.
• Executioner Strike/Shot: You must be able to Assassinate. If you guys feel Assassinate is a Prestige for Rogue, since Weird is gated to "cast".On hit: You have a 35/45/55% chance to kill a target instantly if the target fails a Fortitude save (vs 20 + highest ability score + assassinate). Even on successful save target takes an additional [50/75/100] damage from this attack(200% Melee or Range Power.)(Cooldown: 12 seconds).

Multiselector:

• Weird: You gain the Weird spell - AoE Phantasmal Killer, scales off Illusion DC. You must be able to cast level 9 spells. Cooldown 60s, SP cost 50 (matches implosion). DC 20 + highest of int/wis/cha + illusion bonuses
• Consume Shadow: Dissolve into a whorl of shadow, leaving your corporeal form behind. While in this form, you are considered Sneaking and Invisible regardless of what you do. You also gain 3d6 Sneak Attack Dice, 50% Incorporeality, as well as the effects of Dark Imbuement and Meld into Darkness as if they had been fully trained and upgraded. When non-boss enemies PASS BY YOU you in this state, they are slain by their fear, automatically taking a Phantasmal Killer effect with no save. Duration: 20 seconds. Cooldown 60s
• Remove Shadow: From-Sneak Active attack. Enemies in an area(AOE) must make a will save vs 20 + highest ability score + assassinate or be permanently cursed with Shadow Loss. You also gain 3d6 Sneak Attack Dice for 30 seconds. Shadow Loss: You no longer cast a shadow. (literally. we literally turn their shadow visuals off). In addition, you have -20 PRR/MRR/AC and Spell Resistance. Cooldown 60s.

Enhanced Shadowdancer Multi-Selector:

• Spell Focus: +1/2/3 Spell DCs and Spell Resistance.
• Attack: Gain the Sap Feat if you have it trained you gain the Long Shadows effect to Sap: Once per attack(Cooldown: 15 seconds)
  Long Shadows: Attack now increases your melee range.

Something Similiar?

• Mass Chaos: Epic Moment: Enemies in an area are Confused with no save for 30 seconds, gain a stack of Fey Chaos, and apply a stack of Fey Chaos on hitting non-Player, non-Hireling targets while Confused. 5 minute cooldown.
  
  • Fey Chaos: This creature takes 5% more damage from all sources for 10 seconds. This effect can stack up to 10 times, and all stacks expire after not gaining new ones for 10 seconds. This effect works on Bosses and Raid Bosses.

[VinoeWhines]

Absorbing Shadows for stacking buffs and then releasing all stored shadows during the Epic moment is, well, Epic. Imagine killing mobs over a 5 minute cool down and then releasing them all at once in a fury of swirling shadows that kill everything. As long as 50% of the cool down has expired then it could also provide a protection from death effect which temporarily reanimates the character with absorbed Shadow energy with a duration determined by the amount of Shadows absorbed (ala Jibbers).

This combined with a Shadowdancer who's own shadow attacks enemies and provides defense and can be given tasks. The Shadowdancer could learn a new task at each tier for example: distract, envelop (blind), defend, mercy kill, assassinate. Envelop, defend and mercy kill could all be on autocast: envelop could automatically blind a Ranged or spellcasting enemy targeting the player, defend could automatically defends a party member under 50% health and mercy kill could automatically attempt to kill an enemy under 30% health. For example.

Let's make it Epic!

This does sound very Epic. Glad to see others chiming in for parity in this Tree with other Trees and our Epic Moment.