U50 Preview 2: New Universal Enhancement Tree: Horizon Walker

[Enderoc]

to those going boo hoo about how single target is maximized are not taking into consideration you will be adding supplemental enhancements from other trees...plus you get scattershot which I assume is IPS savvy.
Not every build needs to be a high DC one trick pony nuker....just saying
I go back to my point some people are just horribad when it comes to understanding the gameplay of ranged builds. This tree if utilized right will blow inquisitor out...quote me on that.

[SWCarter]

Please move the Dex Trance to Tier 2, or better yet Tier 1.

Agreed. I'd prefer that all trances are equally placed at Tier 2, like KTA. I'd also really like to see all trances available through Universal trees so that multi-classing isn't required.

The placement of the trance in a tree is build-defining and can put one class/build over another one in terms of power. Ideally, a pure build should be able to take a 41-point capstone, a 31-point core 5 in another tree, and still have points left to pick up a trance. At the very least, always having trances at Tier 2 would drive consistency across melee builds. If a melee build cannot reasonably afford the AP for their relevant trance (such as 21+ for Falconry), it puts them at a severe disadvantage such that reasonable tactical DCs cannot be achieved.

[Steelstar]

Agreed. I'd prefer that all trances are equally placed at Tier 2, like KTA. I'd also really like to see all trances available through Universal trees so that multi-classing isn't required.

The placement of the trance in a tree is build-defining and can put one class/build over another one in terms of power. Ideally, a pure build should be able to take a 41-point capstone, a 31-point core 5 in another tree, and still have points left to pick up a trance. At the very least, always having trances at Tier 2 would drive consistency across melee builds. If a melee build cannot reasonably afford the AP for their relevant trance (such as 21+ for Falconry), it puts them at a severe disadvantage such that reasonable tactical DCs cannot be achieved.

The positioning of individual trances, including this one, is very intentional.

We don't have any plans to equalize the positioning and costs of trances, but if we were going to, they would all end up in Tier 4. A much more likely outcome down the line is that we redesign and rebalance how the bonuses from Trances are obtained outright so they aren't such a polarizing, do-or-die ability for builds. But that is not happening in u50 either (and might not happen at any point).

While Trances still exist in their current states and are balanced in the fashion that they currently are, this one is sticking where it is.

[elvesunited]

Wrong question. What's right with Shifter archer? Nothing. It's Wood Elf or bust.


Strawmanning bad builds is a waste of everyone's time.

The shifter with rage can manage +8 Dex bonus with its rage compared to the +4 from wood elf and gets +5 Wisdom on top of that
Other archer friendly abilities from the tree include +3 Con , +6% dodge, +6 Natural Armor

The only real drawback other than having to refresh your rage every few minutes is that you have to spend 1 AP in tier 3 in order to cast spells while raging.

There's a lot there for a shifter archer. What does wood elf has that makes it that much better?

[Tilomere]

Hard:


R3:

[Vish]

Hard:


R3:

if only spells cost mana

prob get it bout same time as a stamina bar

[LurkingVeteran]

...

Again, cherry picking screenshots is a bad way of starting a balance discussion. I'm not even sure what you are trying to say here, nerf Archmage T5 that nobody else picks?

[Assassination]

The positioning of individual trances, including this one, is very intentional.

We don't have any plans to equalize the positioning and costs of trances, but if we were going to, they would all end up in Tier 4. A much more likely outcome down the line is that we redesign and rebalance how the bonuses from Trances are obtained outright so they aren't such a polarizing, do-or-die ability for builds. But that is not happening in u50 either (and might not happen at any point).

While Trances still exist in their current states and are balanced in the fashion that they currently are, this one is sticking where it is.

Sticking these trances into epic destinies might be a better fit. We don't usually have the points to take them until we've reached epics anyway.

[SWCarter]

We don't have any plans to equalize the positioning and costs of trances, but if we were going to, they would all end up in Tier 4.

I'm 100% fine with this, if you balance the game around it. This wildly inconsistent point expenditure for a trance depending on which class/build you choose is simply frustrating at the moment. And I have to imagine it's challenging from a development standpoint, too, because some classes are going to be able to overcome significantly higher tactics DCs than others.

[droid327]

We don't have any plans to equalize the positioning and costs of trances, but if we were going to, they would all end up in Tier 4. A much more likely outcome down the line is that we redesign and rebalance how the bonuses from Trances are obtained outright so they aren't such a polarizing, do-or-die ability for builds. But that is not happening in u50 either (and might not happen at any point).

At the risk of precipitating another nerf, I will just point out that the reduction of Insightful Damage affixes at L29+ has made trances relatively MORE of a de facto requirement....

I'm 100% fine with this, if you balance the game around it. This wildly inconsistent point expenditure for a trance depending on which class/build you choose is simply frustrating at the moment. And I have to imagine it's challenging from a development standpoint, too, because some classes are going to be able to overcome significantly higher tactics DCs than others.

The trances aren't that wildly different when you consider them in context with alt stat to dmg. Harper requires 12 AP for both. FI requires 7 but has no trance so that's at least 4 in a cha class tree. Dex to dmg is innate on bows and can be finessed various ways so the trance at t3 is comparable. It's only wis, really, that's anomalously high in its overall opportunity cost at t4

[Shadowperson]

Change Favored Enemy: Evil Outsider Feat to all outsiders.

[SpardaX]

Part Quoted:

Kind of curious. What's wrong with a shifter archer?

Wrong question. What's right with Shifter archer? Nothing. It's Wood Elf or bust.

Actual Quote:

Kind of curious. What's wrong with a shifter archer? 11 AP and you can be in pretty much constant wildhunt rage and be at +8 Dex, +5 Wis, -2 Str with either +6 dodge or +3 Con and still be able to cast spells.
just 2 more AP get you another favored enemy.

Seems to me like the answer to your question was the bit you specifically ignored. Easy mistake to make, I understand. Happens all the time.

[CaptainSpacePony]

Change Favored Enemy: Evil Outsider Feat to all outsiders.

Simple. Elegant. Let's do it.

[Bacon_Burger]

The positioning of individual trances, including this one, is very intentional.

We don't have any plans to equalize the positioning and costs of trances, but if we were going to, they would all end up in Tier 4. A much more likely outcome down the line is that we redesign and rebalance how the bonuses from Trances are obtained outright so they aren't such a polarizing, do-or-die ability for builds. But that is not happening in u50 either (and might not happen at any point).

While Trances still exist in their current states and are balanced in the fashion that they currently are, this one is sticking where it is.

You need to keep HW's stance at T2, that way, people won't have to waste anymore points.


This is by-far the weakest & wonkiest UT to date.


I can't endorse a tree *designed for bow users* that does very little for them, and reminds me of 2 day old meatloaf, boring w/ no flavor.

[MaeveTuohy]

I can't endorse a tree *designed for bow users* that does very little for them, and reminds me of 2 day old meatloaf, boring w/ no flavor.

You are right that HW isn't rich offering, but are you sure they were looking for your endorsement?

[Assassination]

You are right that HW isn't rich offering, but are you sure they were looking for your endorsement?

If they are trying to sell this thing, you'd think they would prefer us to like it.

[Zretch]

Again, cherry picking screenshots is a bad way of starting a balance discussion. I'm not even sure what you are trying to say here, nerf Archmage T5 that nobody else picks?

Cherry picking screenshots is all Tilomere does. Might as well tell rain to stop being wet.

[Arkat]

Change Favored Enemy: Evil Outsider Feat to all outsiders.

This does make more sense within the context of what potential enemies a Horizon Walker could run into.

[Epicsoul]

The shifter with rage can manage +8 Dex bonus with its rage compared to the +4 from wood elf and gets +5 Wisdom on top of that
Other archer friendly abilities from the tree include +3 Con , +6% dodge, +6 Natural Armor

The only real drawback other than having to refresh your rage every few minutes is that you have to spend 1 AP in tier 3 in order to cast spells while raging.

There's a lot there for a shifter archer. What does wood elf has that makes it that much better?

Wood Elf has +6% to hit with attacks, +4 dmg with Longbows and 6% double shot. That is far better than the stats listed above.

[Akoriv]

The positioning of individual trances, including this one, is very intentional.

We don't have any plans to equalize the positioning and costs of trances, but if we were going to, they would all end up in Tier 4. A much more likely outcome down the line is that we redesign and rebalance how the bonuses from Trances are obtained outright so they aren't such a polarizing, do-or-die ability for builds. But that is not happening in u50 either (and might not happen at any point).

While Trances still exist in their current states and are balanced in the fashion that they currently are, this one is sticking where it is.

The problems is that you have jacked mob saves to such high levels, you have made trances mandatory for any class wanting to use c/c feats and enhancements.