Reaper is a complete fail

[Vanhooger]

So you've chosen to deliberately limit what you play, and now want what, SSG to cater to your specific needs? There's no way they're going to be able to do that, because if they try to slow curve power creep and don't add new gear, new content at cap is a wasted investment, because you'll only be playing what's "worthwhile" instead of what's available. I submit that there's no way they can build to suit you, because the content you demand is already in game.

So for you the only way to play ddo is TR? You think I am the only one who want endgame content? Seriously?
If I was playing what is worthwhile my main would be already farming reaper xp in heroics instead of his 25k reaper xp in 2 weeks of epics r10, while guildmates already got over 100k in a week of tr.

And to answer your post, no, I'm not limiting myself, i just don't have either interest / time to TR.

[nokowi]

So for you the only way to play ddo is TR? You think I am the only one who want endgame content? Seriously?
If I was playing what is worthwhile my main would be already farming reaper xp in heroics instead of his 25k reaper xp in 2 weeks of epics r10, while guildmates already got over 100k in a week of tr.

The idea that we "limit our play" to things we enjoy is incomprehensible to some.

1. Shut up and play the game as it is or leave
2. Don't make any suggestions for improvement
3. You are complaining because of negative things we can say about you without knowing a thing about you personally

(1-3 are not my opinions for those of you that have trouble with comprehension)

[nokowi]

I see reaper two ways, it is a WIN for a certain groups of players, people that have felt left aside for some time and for them I am glad.

I see it as a WIN for veteran TR junkies like myself (although I don't play in reaper personally), the challenge seekers, the raiders, the folks that have found new fun in an old game.

I see it as a FAIL in terms of planning and execution, and I will say why (subjective opinion of course...lol):

What was supposed to be something quick and dirty, at least that is the impression I had, maybe I missed a post or something, please show me the way If I am wrong. However, the impression I had was this was going to be "easy" and would not require much effort or resources, correct? Well... that has turned into 2 hotfixes, downtime and so on...

So really, this was not so "easy" to do and actually did take lots of resources. That is where I see the failure and the need for improvement. The planning and execution.

Overall though I believe it has somehow fulfilled and earned the right to be somewhat called a success because it has made a subset of the community happy, a subset that has felt neglected for some time. SO in essence the design of the update might have been a much needed enhancement in adding an extra difficulty...only time will tell on the true impact it will have on the community and grouping. For now I remain undecided, but skeptical.

I may not like the way the update was implemented, or the way the game design has changed, but I will adapt and live with it and find a way to see a positive side and look forward to future updates that will appeal to me or layer onto existing enhancements and make them appealing to me.

Well said. Reaper does seem to have been worth the time and effort.

The question I have is why it didn't appear 2-3 years ago when we got the power of the class passes?

Even having just R1-R5 settings would have solved a bunch of issues a long time ago.

R6+ still needs some work.

[Vanhooger]

The idea that we "limit our play" to things we enjoy is incomprehensible to some.

1. Shut up and play the game as it is or leave
2. Don't make any suggestions for improvement
3. You are complaining because of negative things we can say about you without knowing a thing about you personally

(1-3 are not my opinions for those of you that have trouble with comprehension)

Yeah, it's like:

- I like play football

- Why? You are limiting yourself! Play football and rugby.

Doesn't matter if you like it or not.

[Rys]

So for you the only way to play ddo is TR? You think I am the only one who want endgame content? Seriously?
If I was playing what is worthwhile my main would be already farming reaper xp in heroics instead of his 25k reaper xp in 2 weeks of epics r10, while guildmates already got over 100k in a week of tr.

Go home you elite pretender.

[Vanhooger]

Go home you elite pretender.

[slarden]

Yeah, it's like:

- I like play football

- Why? You are limiting yourself! Play football and rugby.

Doesn't matter if you like it or not.

The problem isn't what you like to play. It's the fact you expect the devs to change rewards and incentives to force people to group with you. Your analogy doesn't work because you are ignoring the fact that you are demanding a full party for just 10 skull reaper and other players are choosing to do different things. Some possibly for the same reason as me they want to run all the quests on reaper at level as it's a new twist on these old quests.

The idea that we "limit our play" to things we enjoy is incomprehensible to some.

1. Shut up and play the game as it is or leave
2. Don't make any suggestions for improvement
3. You are complaining because of negative things we can say about you without knowing a thing about you personally

(1-3 are not my opinions for those of you that have trouble with comprehension)

I think people have crossed the line from being reasonable by trying to eliminate rewards for levels 1-29 and/or demand new rewards for level cap. I think it's reasonable to request an equalizer for daily quests at cap to make up for lack of BB and first time bonus.

Reaper was never designed to be an end game activity.

[Skunkhunt42]

Reaper was never designed to be an end game activity.

[Vanhooger]

The problem isn't what you like to play. It's the fact you expect the devs to change rewards and incentives to force people to group with you. Your analogy doesn't work because you are ignoring the fact that you are demanding a full party for just 10 skull reaper and other players are choosing to do different things. Some possibly for the same reason as me they want to run all the quests on reaper at level as it's a new twist on these old quests.

My point is, wasn't reaper about challenge? What we have now has become a zerg to get rewards and xp.

I don't mind people playing lower skull if they feel appropriate to them, all I want is, a r1 zerg should be way less rewarding then a r10 quest, either eroic or epic.

You choose less challenge = less reward (xp)

You choose greater challenge = greater reward (xp)

50% of the problem reside in the first time bouns.

As it is now, reaper isn't about challenge, it just prioritize TR's and zerg low skull.

Really, I don't know how to explain that anymore.

As an example: 10 r1 quest should be equal xp as 1 r10 it may be too much but you get what I'm saying?

Think as a player prespective when he does see a r10 lfm and an r1-3 lfm: Why would I join r10 when I can get same xp faster without the need of roles, coordination and resources and nearly no chance of wipe.

[nokowi]

I think people have crossed the line from being reasonable by trying to eliminate rewards for levels 1-29 and/or demand new rewards for level cap. I think it's reasonable to request an equalizer for daily quests at cap to make up for lack of BB and first time bonus.

Reaper was never designed to be an end game activity.

This is a reasonable position.

As someone who argued for no RXP, I think I am entitled to discuss how RXP was implemented without being called a special snowflake, with having negatives thrown at me, and without it being all being me needing special rewards.

My position is also quite rational and reasonable, even if it differs from yours.

I'll be interested in what happens after the update at cap, and if moving-forward reaper continues to get more challenge as player power increases, or if it will be watered down by demands for nerfs from those less interested in challenge and more interested in rewards. I can say this without saying one preference is better than the other.

My impression is that RXP will never be perfectly balanced, and that we are always going to have threads filled with X is 10% better than Y as long as everyone is getting the same type of reward (just like we did for class X vs class Y). We will have a push-pull between those that want challenge and those that want rewards, with endless personal attacks about someone with a different preference.

In the same way class differentiation is important (unique contributions rather than the same contribution), separate design allows the same kind of specialization that keeps more players happy. Keeping more players happy is not some sort of entitlement or negative quality.

[slarden]

My point is, wasn't reaper about challenge? What we have now has become a zerg to get rewards and xp.

I don't mind people playing lower skull if they feel appropriate to them, all I want is, a r1 zerg should be way less rewarding then a r10 quest, either eroic or epic.

You choose less challenge = less reward (xp)

You choose greater challenge = greater reward (xp)

50% of the problem reside in the first time bouns.

As it is now, reaper isn't about challenge, it just prioritize TR's and zerg low skull.

Really, I don't know how to explain that anymore.

As an example: 10 r1 quest should be equal xp as 1 r10 it may be too much but you get what I'm saying?

Think as a player prespective when he does see a r10 lfm and an r1-3 lfm: Why would I join r10 when I can get same xp faster without the need of roles, coordination and resources?

As someone that's capable of bringing alot of solid builds to the table for level 30 R10 I honestly don't care. I like the current design over any of your suggestions for the simple reason there is more grouping flexibility with the current design. People can solo, short man, run an an optimized full party and work their way to a higher skull reaper through experience.

Once rewards are introduced of any kind it's no longer about just challenge. That ship already sailed. So now it's about choosing your own challenge level and trying to maximize fun and make progress.

[slarden]

This is a reasonable position.

As someone who argued for no RXP, I think I am entitled to discuss how RXP was implemented without being called a special snowflake, with having negatives thrown at me, and without it being all being me needing special rewards.

My position is also quite rational and reasonable, even if it differs from yours.

I'll be interested in what happens after the update at cap, and if moving-forward reaper continues to get more challenge as player power increases, or if it will be watered down by demands for nerfs from those less interested in challenge and more interested in rewards. I can say this without saying one preference is better than the other.

My impression is that RXP will never be perfectly balanced, and that we are always going to have threads filled with X is 10% better than Y as long as everyone is getting the same type of reward. We will also have a push-pull between those that want challenge and those that want rewards.

In the same way class differentiation is important (unique contributions rather than the same contribution), separate design allows the same kind of specialization that keeps more players happy. Keeping more players happy is not some sort of entitlement or negative quality.

I don't disagree with anything you say. If I called you a special snowflake I retract it. I think we can all agree on the bait-and-switch aspect of this where it started out as an extreme challenge setting and turned into a grind and revenue stream all of a sudden without anyone asking for that type of system directly.

[nokowi]

Once rewards are introduced of any kind it's no longer about just challenge. That ship already sailed. So now it's about choosing your own challenge level and trying to maximize fun.

This is good advice, but I would bet long-term many more players will spend their time running efficiently over having fun.

Reaper is new and shiny right now, but it will likely devolve into the same minimum effort path that XP did. Linking RXP directly to XP pretty much ensures this.

Reaper is still a good gain for DDO, but it's going to be hard to convince a group of players to leave the minimal effort path for challenge. This was not really an issue for solo content, but it is for grouping.

There are infinitely better reaper implementations that don't dangle carrots away from challenge, even if you like this implementation.

[nokowi]

I don't disagree with anything you say. If I called you a special snowflake I retract it. I think we can all agree on the bait-and-switch aspect of this where it started out as an extreme challenge setting and turned into a grind and revenue stream all of a sudden without anyone asking for that type of system directly.

I don't believe you assigned any negatives to me in this thread.

You can read the thread and see where those comments came from.

You summed things up perfectly here.

[Vanhooger]

Reaper is still a good gain for DDO, but it's going to be hard to convince a group of players to leave the minimal effort path for challenge. This was not really an issue for solo content, but it is for grouping.

This is my main issue of the entire reaper system.

[Vexious]

Lmfao +1

[mr420247]

Reaper good for DDO idk about that

There are now 4 viable options for reaper

The world just got a whole lot smaller

Where are the caster passes that would have been great

Must be so nice to play an up to date class the thought of leveling a healbot in reaper

Makes me want to cut my eyeballs out with rusty spoons

[Jasparion]

Reaper good for DDO idk about that

There are now 4 viable options for reaper

The world just got a whole lot smaller

Where are the caster passes that would have been great

Must be so nice to play an up to date class the thought of leveling a healbot in reaper

Makes me want to cut my eyeballs out with rusty spoons

So dont do that then.

[Annex]

Has anyone figured out how long it will take to fill out the Reaper Trees? I presume L30 will repopulate once the first batch of characters acquire all the power from Reaper Trees.

[Rys]

Has anyone figured out how long it will take to fill out the Reaper Trees? I presume L30 will repopulate once the first batch of characters acquire all the power from Reaper Trees.

Only a couple of years.