Collectables

[Vellrad]

Level is base quest lvl or quest lvl modified by difficulty?

why reinvent the wheel... making tier collectibles will force people to have to run that content to craft. Some people don't like heroic or some people don't like epic.

So, you prefer to be unable to farm collectables if need be, and have your ability to craft items rely solely on luck?
If they're sorted by levels, that means you can spend few minutes running that harbor quest, as opposed to playing anything and getting completely random junk that will mostly be useless to thing you want to craft.

[changelingamuck]

Tier 1 collectibles are the clear chokepoint, as in natural gameplay players do not spend much time at all in levels 1-5.

The obvious solution from a player's point of view is to cheat by coding a bot that can farm these materials for you in safe low level quests. If the obvious solution is to cheat, the system is broken and is not ready for release.

Yeah, this absolutely would happen. Yes, it would promote player engagement with the in-game economy through increased trading. Who would primarily reap the benefits of that though? People who are cheating.

The simple solution is to change the level ranges, so that items found in natural gameplay are more in tune with the demand.

I think (base quest level) 1-12 being tier 1, 13-16 tier 2, 17-20 tier 3, 21-24 tier 4, 25-28 tier 5 and 29-32 tier 6 would better reflect actual gameplay patterns. There'll be a slight excess of tier 3 and tier 6 collectables and a slight deficit of tier 1 and 5, but it should be quite manageable - and going and farming tier 5 collectables with your Legendary-ready level 30 character won't be so completely trivial that you fall asleep.

Yeah, this would mitigate the problem; but I still think that the problem should be eliminated altogether with the solution that I proposed here:

I also think that the quest level ranges for which collectibles drop in which quests should be eliminated.

I would say just base what collectibles are produced by what dispensers on their category type alone. Keep the frequency categories of Common, Uncommon, and Rare; but all of the arcane collectibles would have a chance of dropping from an arcane dispenser, all of the natural collectibles would have a chance of dropping from a natural dispenser, and so on (regardless of the quest's level in which the collectible dispenser is found).

This would make it more difficult to 'farm' for specific collectibles; but it would mean that players would be collecting all of the collectibles regardless of the level range of content they are running. Really, who wants to farm for collectibles anyways? The level range differentiated drop system is going to create a weird little economy encouraging players to run over-level characters through low-level quests dashing from one collectible dispenser to the next over and over and over in order to sell them on the ASAH. Does anybody actually want to do that though? Does it sound fun? I would say no.

I think we agree one the root problem, if I am understanding where you are coming from.

Without redesigning the recipes or how the collectible nodes work there could be another solution. If you run level-appropriate content and have access to exchange the collectibles you do get from level-appropriate content for multiple items of lower tiers, or exchange stacks to trade-up to higher tier collectibles, it won't be as efficient as actually getting the stuff you need from the node, but it will make getting *anything* from a node worth *something* for crafting.

This would be an acceptable solution also. I think it's fixing a problem that doesn't need to exist in the first place; but I'd be satisfied with it. It does have the advantage over my solution that players would still be able to go to specific quests to farm for specific collectibles, if they wanted to.

NoWorries, if you're absolutely set on having this level-range-based drop system, please consider creating a trade-in NPC that would allow us to get collectibles of higher or lower tiers by trading in collectibles of other tiers.

This is the same silly way of doing things like the early Crystal cove with some gems only dropping at specific tiers. That was later 'fixed' by being able to downgrade higher end gems to lower. Turbine realized what the problem was then.

I really hope you will realize how backwards this system is and instead of banking on people trading, actually create a system that is natural to how people play. Please learn from your mistakes.

Yes. This is fundamentally the exact same problem as the one that existed with the level-range-based gem drop system within Crystal Cove. And it was roundly disliked by players because they did not want to feel pressured to run Cove in a level-range that they didn't want to play--just like the possibility of a level-range-based drop system for collectibles seems to be roundly disliked now. And then they fixed that problem with a trade-in system similar to the one proposed by CrideasBane above. I'd rather the problem just not be created in the first place by having all collectibles of a given category have a chance of dropping from a dispenser/node of that category regardless of quest level. But a trade-in system would be a reasonable solution.

[Lerincho]

There has been a lot of discussing about collectables lately with the changes to Cannith Crafting. We thought it might be useful to give more details on how collectable drops have changed and what players can expect.


Let's start with what the tiers of collectables are. Collectables from clickable devices are now in 6 tiers broken up in 5 level ranges (collectables that drop from creatures will still drop as they have before). A few collectables have been moved around to flush out some of the tiers, but for the most part the old collectables drop as players would expect.


Collectables come in four different category types: Arcane, Lore, Natural, Cultural. An Arcane device of a given Tier has the chance to drop all items in that tier, same with the other categories. Backpacks/Rubble piles have the chance to drop all categories of collectables for a given tier. The tier and the collectable device are the only determination on the collectables received. They are no longer broken up into house groups.


Collectables will start showing up in non-Eberron content, with the exception of lore restricted items (such as Soarwood) and Eberron shards.

My thought/concern/question about collectables has remained relatively the same over the past 11 years of DDO. Why is there not a way to exchange more common collectables for rarer collectables? Because what we all need is another 10,000 kobold prayer beads while trying to find the rare ones. For the extremely common I would be willing to go as high as 5 for a chance at the higher tier collectable. So common to semi-common then semi-common to rare.

Has this been talked about at all since it seem Cannith Crafting is going to be even more reliant on collectables?

[changelingamuck]

Level is base quest lvl or quest lvl modified by difficulty?



So, you prefer to be unable to farm collectables if need be, and have your ability to craft items rely solely on luck?
If they're sorted by levels, that means you can spend few minutes running that harbor quest, as opposed to playing anything and getting completely random junk that will mostly be useless to thing you want to craft.

I don't want to spend minutes running a harbor quest due to a structural problem with a game system that doesn't need to exist...

But okay, this seems to be a common concern then and I definitely see the point that players would want to be able to farm specific collectibles from specific places...

I'm convinced at this point that having a trade-in NPC that would allow trading in collectibles for other collectibles of higher or lower tiers in the best solution.

I withdraw my suggestion to simply have all collectibles of a certain category have a chance to drop from all dispensers/nodes of that category regardless of level-range. Keep the level-range system. Add a trade-in NPC, please.

[Feralthyrtiaq]

Thankfully I enjoy all levels of game-play and have picked up (and kept) every collectible I can JUST for the occasional drop of s/m/l eb shards for Xp pots and Mnem clickies.

As a result I have PLENTY to get started with new crafting.

All it takes is a moment to pick up the ones you see.

The people who are complaining about the drops tiered by level should just shut it.

IT IS YOUR OWN FAULT IF YOU IGNORED ALL THOSE COLLECTIBLES OVER THE YEARS. I commend the devs for not making them obsolete.

IT IS YOUR OWN CHOICE TO ONLY PLAY AT CAP. The majority of the player base runs quests of all levels and this change to collectibles with regards to CC is a GREAT one for a number of reasons.

CANNITH CRAFTING IS YOUR OWN CHOICE TO IGNORE OR PARTICIPATE IN w/e

The current gating via collectibles seems a tad steep if you HAVN'T PICKED ANY UP OR IGNORE THEM.

For those of us that didn't IGNORE collectibles it seems appropriate and it creates a MARKET FOR TRADE.

However, I know A LOT of you are not living a meaningful authentic life if you aren't actively HATING on something /shrug.

[Maelphistez]

Hey NoWorries...

I know that I am probably "urinating" into the wind here, but I just wanted to give it a shot that you are (1) Still reading these and (2) Willing to consider a major change at this late date. I understand the work put into the "tiers" of crafting collectibles that you have put in so far. I hate that my poor red bag is about to become even more burdened, but I understand that this gives the money making opportunity to sell the Uber-Gargantuan, Weightless Red Bag of Supreme Goodness. The company must make money and we all have the option to carry 5 Large bags that are available to be earned in-game if we aren't willing to pay for the UGWRBoSG. But with that said, I agree with everyone else who has stated the opinion that using level-gated collectibles to craft shards without levels is somehow backwards. I would like to ask that you consider making the ML shards require the collectibles since these are naturally geared towards the same amount of level gating and make all of the shards whose effect is determined by ML not require collectibles. Static effect and "rare" effect shards could be coded to require the rare collectibles (ie: Underwater action would require 10 Bottles of Pure Water and 5 Oceanic Spheres). This method both makes "sense" and puts collectible collection at the level appropriate to the gear to be crafted.

Please at least consider this.

[Saaluta]

There has been a lot of discussing about collectables lately with the changes to Cannith Crafting. We thought it might be useful to give more details on how collectable drops have changed and what players can expect.


Let's start with what the tiers of collectables are. Collectables from clickable devices are now in 6 tiers broken up in 5 level ranges (collectables that drop from creatures will still drop as they have before). A few collectables have been moved around to flush out some of the tiers, but for the most part the old collectables drop as players would expect.


Collectables come in four different category types: Arcane, Lore, Natural, Cultural. An Arcane device of a given Tier has the chance to drop all items in that tier, same with the other categories. Backpacks/Rubble piles have the chance to drop all categories of collectables for a given tier. The tier and the collectable device are the only determination on the collectables received. They are no longer broken up into house groups.


Collectables will start showing up in non-Eberron content, with the exception of lore restricted items (such as Soarwood) and Eberron shards.


The plan is to also go back and give collectable devics to some existing content that hasn't had collectables before, such as ToEE.


Lore

• Tier 1 (Levels 1-5):
  
  • Common: Page torn from a Research Notebook
  • Uncommon: Khyber Prayer Pamphlet
  • Rare: Tome: Prophecies of Khyber

• Tier 2 (Levels 6-10):
  
  • Common: Caravan Logbook, Phoenix Tavern Purchase Order
  • Uncommon: Research Diary, 'Wavecrasher' Cargo Manifest
  • Rare: Tome: Myths of Old Xen'drik, Tome: Stormreach Imports and Exports, 857 YK

• Tier 3 (Levels 11-15):
  
  • Common: Runic Parchment, Romantic Sonnet
  • Uncommon: House-Sealed Letter, Silver Flame Hymnal, Scholarly Notes
  • Rare: Tome: History of the Houses, Tomes: Lost Songs of Cyre, Tomes: Codes of the Aurum

• Tier 4 (Levels 16-20):
  
  • Common: Cryptic Message
  • Uncommon: Academic Treatise
  • Rare: Tome: Alchemist's Chapbook

• Tier 5 (Levels 21-25):
  
  • Common: Mystical Formula
  • Uncommon: Warehouse LEdger
  • Rare: Encoded Communique

• Tier 6 (Levels 26+):
  
  • Common: Ancient Text
  • Uncommon: Archaic Logbook
  • Rare: Adventuring Oratorio

Arcane

• Tier 1:
  
  • Common: Amber Vial
  • Uncommon: Vial of Pure Water
  • Rare: Vial of Contagion

• Tier 2:
  
  • Common: Skull Fragment, Glittering Dust
  • Uncommon: Powdered Blood, Sparkling Dust
  • Rare: Intact Fingerbone, Luminescent Dust

• Tier 3:
  
  • Common: Ceramic Bowl, Singed Soarwood, Lodestone
  • Uncommon: Glass Phial, Charred Soarwood, Moonstone
  • Rare: Crystal Decanter, Lightning-Split Soarwood, Stellar Orb

• Tier 4:
  
  • Common: Blessed Candle, Ritual Candle
  • Uncommon: Silver Bowl, Vial of Heavy Water
  • Rare: Ritual Athame, Oceanic Sphere

• Tier 5:
  
  • Common: Mortar and Pestle
  • Uncommon: Fractured Femur
  • Rare: Prismatic Dust

• Tier 6:
  
  • Common: Censer
  • Uncommon: Pouch of Bone Fragments
  • Rare: Vial of Dragon's Blood Ink

Natural

• Tier 1:
  
  • Common: Sweet Whitecap
  • Uncommon: Deadly Feverblanch
  • Rare: Pale Creeper

• Tier 2:
  
  • Common: Withered Cryptmoss, Cryptmoss Worm Larva
  • Uncommon: Cryptmoss, Cryptmoss Worm
  • Rare: Lush Cryptmoss, Cryptmoss Queen

• Tier 3:
  
  • Common: Bruised Spore Pod, Sour Darkcap, Duskbrood Trumpeter
  • Uncommon: Intact Spore Pod, Fragrant Drowshood, Headsman Beetle
  • Rare: Flowering Spore Pod, Flowering Hellscap, Executioner Beetle

• Tier 4:
  
  • Common: Ruddy Fungus, Swaying Mushroom Cluster
  • Uncommon: Bloodfeast Fungus, Swaying Mushroom Spore Pod
  • Rare: Sanguine Moth, Glowmoss Clump

• Tier 5:
  
  • Common: Slime Mold, Zygomycota Fungus
  • Uncommon: Glowmoss Spores, Blister Beetle
  • Rare: Scarlet Cryptmoss

• Tier 6:
  
  • Common: Crypt Moth
  • Uncommon: Hairy Trumpet
  • Rare: Shimmering Spore Pod

Cultural

• Tier 1:
  
  • Common: String of Prayer Beads,
  • Uncommon: Small Wooden Idol
  • Rare: Icon of Khyber

• Tier 2:
  
  • Common: Blade of the Dark Six, Funerary Token
  • Uncommon: Signet of The Devourer, Mark of The Keeper
  • Rare: Shamanic Totem, Necromantic Gem

• Tier 3:
  
  • Common: Amulet of the Lost Empire, Small Planar Crystal
  • Uncommon: Amulet of the Six, Planar Spoor
  • Rare: Amulet of the Archbishop

• Tier 4:
  
  • Common: Chipped Bone Talisman
  • Uncommon: Ivory Scorpion Icon, Polished Ore
  • Rare: Tear of Vulkoor, Elemental Ingot

• Tier 5:
  
  • Common: Smoldering Ember
  • Uncommon: Stone Fetish
  • Rare: Planar Talisman

• Tier 6:
  
  • Common: Flint Knife
  • Uncommon: Ornate Charm
  • Rare: Token of the Spinner

Saw someone ask already, but where will small/med/large eberron shards fall in these categories/levels (since it hasn't been answered) ?

/snip as far as I know, there is no ransack on collectible cabinets, mushrooms, etc.

Do you really have to give the devs ideas like this?

Saal

[patang01]

For the level of gear and flexibility we are receiving on the loot the time investment is minimal.

Lets say you have a system of trading one mat for another.

Given time being used as a currency here, what's the difference in time running content you want and trading those material for material you want?

That was one suggestion. Others like mine is that everything should drop in any content. What is the difference in time there? In fact if the suggestion to lower the drop chance of material out of specific tiers existed then it would take longer time running content you want. Hint, the system of running content where a specific mat have a great chance to drop still exist.

This would be called a win win situation for people who see systems as being organic to play styles. Compared to people arguing for a limited system being the best and everything else as 'no big deal'.

I think the lesson here is the same as we saw during the arguments about crystal cove that lead to a change and everything else, that bad systems will always be defended by people who can't see the forest for all the trees; arguing for a more flexible system don't remove that anyone can waste their time running high end chars in low end content. It just gives others the flexibility of playing DDO the way they want. And no one lose out on anything, asks for anything for free or want a free ride. Perhaps the dumbest tropes offered as a counter argument to what amounts in most cases to the same time spent running and perhaps even to a greater effort.

I've heard all these arguments before; like when we asked for green steel deconstruct. There was always someone there to tell us that their many times wasting their time doing things their way was the ideal way for everyone else to play so man up.

And the result as we can see with so many different systems Turbine created was more or less the player base reacting by simply ignoring it and letting it sink.

This isn't a question of 'easier'. So lets set that trope aside.

This is a question of 'better'. Is it better for Turbine to sliver access based on artifical idea of at what level stuff drops, or to make sure the system is organic to all levels?

Letting the market take care of it is a lazy approach to a dynamic game like DDO that spans 30 levels. If you want universal access and something adoptive to everyone you assure it's accessible without limitations. And you can so easily do that without making it easier. Because again; running low end content on a high end char is as easy as it gets. Again, lets skip the dumb tropes and get to the meat of the problem; we need a system that makes sense to all. Not one that makes sense to a sliver that find the idea of grinding low end content 'no big thing'. I get that. Some people love to waste time doing simple rinse and repeat actions.

Some people don't.

What system would bridge both groups?

[Saekee]

I did mention this in another thread, but I would like to suggest having Collectibles Bonus Days. Bonus days in which collectible dispensers provide additional collectible output or when rare collectibles drops would be more common.

/signed

[alancarp]

... I hate that my poor red bag is about to become even more burdened, but I understand that this gives the money making opportunity to sell the Uber-Gargantuan, Weightless Red Bag of Supreme Goodness. The company must make money and we all have the option to carry 5 Large bags that are available to be earned in-game if we aren't willing to pay for the UGWRBoSG. ...

So you're actually suggesting...

• Shipwreck Salvers Crafting Crate

As you were washed up on the shore of Korthos island, things were fuzzy - until that Rogue brought you back to full consciousness. Fortunately, you had enough presence of mind to both spare his life and to grab this starter's crate of crafting ingredients - a rare and valuable collection of approximately 1000 Tier 1 and 2 ingredients from all 4 categories.

• Apprentice Crafter's Ingredient Crate

You are expanding your skills of making the finest magical equipment any heroic adventurer could need. This crate, filled with approximately 1000 Tier 3 and 4 ingredients from all 4 ingredient categories, will support your efforts to complete your crafting training.

• Epic Crafter's Ingredient Crate

The word is out: The whole of Xendrik is under threat from outside forces not foreseen. You must use all of your skills as an Epic Crafter to support adventurers in their efforts to end these threats. This crate, filled with approximately 1,000 Tier 5 and 6 ingredients from all 4 categories is what you need to assist in this fight.

So.... 1495 Turbine Points apiece.... end, over, done. Amiright?

[Vyrzain]

The only issue with this, is that you have to run low end content in order to find some of those - and to be honest it's not something I've done for years. I get what you're trying to do here and I agree to some extent but by making certain content hinge on level brackets you will end up making high end chars wasting time running pointless quests for mats, instead of picking up mats while running content anyways. It's not a very good system when it feels like it's not a natural part of what you're doing anyways. At least with essences you simply crunch stuff that you're getting from chests - higher level stuff gives more essences. Makes sense.

My suggestion is that down the line you also provide a small chance to get a random mat from any tier when you crunch an item. That way it can be a better part of a natural grind, than an artificial one just to find specific mat. Because I can tell you right now that I'm not looking forward to wasting my time grinding low end content, eventho I look forward to crafting. It just makes no sense.

/agree

Please do not make me waste time running lower level quests over and over again.

[UurlockYgmeov]

/agree

Please do not make me waste time running lower level quests over and over again.

Then help out the new players by buying them from the AH and or trading with them directly. You will not get KoboldCooties! I promise!

[Lonnbeimnech]

But what about all those players that want to be able to craft unlimited amounts of high level items on day 1, without farming for any of these rare collectables?

[AnEvenNewerNoob]

Then help out the new players by buying them from the AH and or trading with them directly. You will not get KoboldCooties! I promise!

Ewwwwww.......new players.
Gross.

[Cantor]

Level is base quest lvl or quest lvl modified by difficulty?



So, you prefer to be unable to farm collectables if need be, and have your ability to craft items rely solely on luck?
If they're sorted by levels, that means you can spend few minutes running that harbor quest, as opposed to playing anything and getting completely random junk that will mostly be useless to thing you want to craft.

THIS.
Also, saw a post where they said it was adjusted level.

[UurlockYgmeov]

Then help out the new players by buying them from the AH and or trading with them directly. You will not get KoboldCooties! I promise!

But what about all those players that want to be able to craft unlimited amounts of high level items on day 1, without farming for any of these rare collectables?

see above. :P

Ewwwwww.......new players.
Gross.

then



JK!!

[bsquishwizzy]

Has anyone suggested a collectable trade-in vendor?

You change x Prayer Beads for Y Amber Vials, or X Prayer Beads for 1 Icon of Khyber? Because some quests are LOADED TO THE FRICKIN' GILLS with prayer beads and skull fragments, but no so much on the others.

That would do a lot to fix the situation.

[EllisDee37]

Yep, a trader seems like the way to go. Feel free to make it "trade down only", similar to crystal cove gem trade-in.

I personally don't really see the issue, as my bags are overflowing with low level collectables just from 5 years ago when I first started playing. Who doesn't already have 1000 funerary tokens or prayer beads? I guess the people who intentionally zerged straight out of low levels by doing those ultra-boring nnnnnnnnhe farms, then spent most of their time doing iconic lives and ETRing (once those became available) to avoid the low levels. Meh. There's nothing intrinsically bad about making low levels relevant, nor is their any particular virtue in rewarding people for skipping content.

[UurlockYgmeov]

Has anyone suggested a collectable trade-in vendor?

You change x Prayer Beads for Y Amber Vials, or X Prayer Beads for 1 Icon of Khyber? Because some quests are LOADED TO THE FRICKIN' GILLS with prayer beads and skull fragments, but no so much on the others.

That would do a lot to fix the situation.

Yep, a trader seems like the way to go. Feel free to make it "trade down only", similar to crystal cove gem trade-in.

I personally don't really see the issue, as my bags are overflowing with low level collectables just from 5 years ago when I first started playing. Who doesn't already have 1000 funerary tokens or prayer beads? I guess the people who intentionally zerged straight out of low levels by doing those ultra-boring nnnnnnnnhe farms, then spent most of their time doing iconic lives and ETRing (once those became available) to avoid the low levels. Meh. There's nothing intrinsically bad about making low levels relevant, nor is their any particular virtue in rewarding people for skipping content.

I am sad. Very Sad if this is the answer.

Collectible traders already exist in game: they are called Players.

What is so horrible about trading in game? Nothing - except it takes effort and you have to deal with other people... Ouch. Painful.

No I am not being sarcastic, ironic, nor sardonic - rather this cry for traders etc. instead of actually being social in a social game.

Sad day.

[kain741]

Yes, it's a waste. No confusion.

I don't get experience. I don't get items I care to use. I take time out of say the 2-3 hours I might have that day to run content that adds nothing to the progression or development of my character.

Ok, if you're not crafting items you care to use then what is it you are crafting? That's the idea, you farm to craft what you want.
Listen, I'm not going to drop to calling names like you but that doesn't change my opinion. I don't care if they use this system or any other system. the benefit of the one proposed is that it is predictable and easily repeatable. If they come out with a better system then I could buy into it as well. My viewpoint is it's a little assuming to want something for nothing. I realize it would be easier for you to just farm for mats while you do everything else you do in game but that doesn't mean that should be the goal of the devs. Maybe they want to stimulate the economy for lowbies that can't generate plat, or encourage more TR'ing or even boost mat sales through the store. Who knows? It's not the end of the world to go farm to get something you want. I'd be open to a tradedown or any other system as well even if it had an inconvenient ratio. I never said it was difficult to farm level 5 material, actually read my posts...they say quite the contrary.
The people griping should be the people in the reverse situation...those that are newer without a capped toon. They're the ones that don't have the option to go farm for the mats they want and are hostage to the economy; not those who just can't find the time to spare to make their gear work.
In any event, I can respect that you want to let the devs know your perspective and that you think everything should be accomplishable at once. That is a fair thought and there is nothing wrong with it. But others can have other thoughts as well. I'd have no issue being able to get everything I need while I run my endgame, no issue at all...my stance is just that I'd have no issue going and spending time doing something else as well (like farming mats) if the end justified it.