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  1. #221
    Community Member BigErkyKid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    When? - power up the flux capacitor with 1.21 jiggawatts and go back to 1985. Gauntlet awaits.
    Told you, Gauntlet already crept into DDO and took it over. Now don't break the consistency and upgrade my TA to demi god.

  2. #222
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigErkyKid View Post
    You got it wrong, it is DDO post u22 and I'd like it to be consistent in its design philosophy.
    You misunderstood the design philosophy then. It is to keep players playing, not to homogenize all classes which will retain one type of player at the expense of others losing interest.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    We are no more d000m'd then we were a week ago. Note - This was posted in 10/2013 (when concurrency was ~4x what it is today)

  3. #223
    Community Member BigErkyKid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    You misunderstood the design philosophy then. It is to keep players playing, not to homogenize all classes which will retain one type of player at the expense of others losing interest.
    Players said they don't want flavor and power builds. So did the devs. Are you saying that they were lying?

  4. #224
    Community Member BigErkyKid's Avatar
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    Also, does anyone else feel like playing PONG all of a sudden?

    PS - But make sure the sticks on both sides are of the same size.

    PS2 - Yes, I read it too :S

  5. #225
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigErkyKid View Post
    I'd go 10 6 3 (the last paladin) if I were you.

    In any case, the DPS and the survivability is behind the current power curve. This becomes more apparent in late epics.

    In heroics, even scroll healing and using fists of light, I was virtually immortal. I got lost in a late inferno run with buddies and mobs were simply unable to kill me. I could have been there 5 hours and nothing would have killed me.

    The fight we are having here is whether it is OK for some classes to "pack everything" and others not. I don't think so. I don't like the game focused on raw DPS + self heals and brute force everything. But that's where we are heading and I refuse to leave behind certain archetypes.
    10/6/3 gives one level left over- I'm planning on the 7th wiz level for 4th level spells. I started this char before even the bard pass (shows how much I've played this char) and the original plan was 12/7/1 (rog/wiz/fighter) I already have 10/5/1 rog wiz fighter - so paladin isn't an option - I'd probably prefer 3 fighter for the 2 feats over 3 paladin on this build anyways.

  6. #226
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigErkyKid View Post
    Players said they don't want flavor and power builds. So did the devs. Are you saying that they were lying?
    Citation needed on this.

    Im pretty positive every single player is not worried about xp / min and timed completions. This is over argued on the forums quite a bit, but seen very little in game.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    We are no more d000m'd then we were a week ago. Note - This was posted in 10/2013 (when concurrency was ~4x what it is today)

  7. #227
    Community Member Thrudh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    And youre complaining about paladins using this logic while clerics, barbarians and wizards simply self heal as they roll on by with no need to take any action whatsoever other than pure offense.

    While the paladin stops to cast their heal, the barbarian hits something in the face with an ax and gets hp back. THe wizard gets HP back while their wail is going off and they are standing in the middle of a dancing ball. Where were the demands to nerf wizards over the years......the cleric gets HP back passively as it kites through BBs....

    So much for having to take an action to heal.....
    They get 500 hp in one burst passively? Do you even know how to compare apples to apples?
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    We are no more d000m'd then we were a week ago. Note - This was posted in 10/2013
    Quote Originally Posted by Eth View Post
    When you stop caring about xp/min this game becomes really fun. Trust me.
    Quote Originally Posted by TedSandyman View Post
    Some people brag about how fast they finished the game. I cant think of a stupider thing to brag about. Or in this game, going from level 1 to level 30 in two days, or however long it takes. I can't even begin to imagine what drives a person to think that is fun. You are ignoring all of the content and options and going for sheer speed. It is like going to a museum and bragging about how fast you made it through. Or bragging about how fast you finished a good steak.

  8. #228
    Community Member BigErkyKid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BD_ View Post
    I'd probably prefer 3 fighter for the 2 feats over 3 paladin on this build anyways.
    it is a trap, don't do it! If you go another life do 3 paladin. I was so smug thinking that I could get away picking extra trash feats and rely on gear for saves. But the leveling process in epics will suck then.

  9. #229
    Community Member BigErkyKid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    Citation needed on this.

    Im pretty positive every single player is not worried about xp / min and timed completions. This is over argued on the forums quite a bit, but seen very little in game.
    Check up the survey and the post with the conclusions. It is there!

    They didn't say they wanted max xp/min because they weren't asked about it. They said they wanted class balance and no flavor vs power builds.

  10. #230
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    Citation needed on this.

    Im pretty positive every single player is not worried about xp / min and timed completions. This is over argued on the forums quite a bit, but seen very little in game.
    Gonna be a smarta... and fix this for you...

    I'm pretty sure not every single player is worried about xp/min and timed completions.....

  11. #231
    Community Member BigErkyKid's Avatar
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    Gentlemen, it's been a pleasure, but my "other work" demands my attention. :P

    Have a blast and thanks for keeping the bitter comments out of this (for the most part).

  12. #232
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigErkyKid View Post
    it is a trap, don't do it! If you go another life do 3 paladin. I was so smug thinking that I could get away picking extra trash feats and rely on gear for saves. But the leveling process in epics will suck then.
    That char has cha as a dump stat, makes UMD'ing heal scrolls a pain.... imp evasion, fom, dw, prot evil takes away the need for high saves most of the time though. That char will probably TR at 20-23ish and alternate between caster and stick builds - all of my btc stuff on that char is either caster or acro orientated and the only pl that char has is a sorc one.

  13. #233
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudh View Post
    They get 500 hp in one burst passively? Do you even know how to compare apples to apples?
    Yep, 500 apples = 500 apples.

    Still awaiting explanation on how overkill self healing is reason for a DPS nerf in the context of current DDO. If you want to compare apples to apples here, please do.
    Last edited by Chai; 03-30-2015 at 02:51 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    We are no more d000m'd then we were a week ago. Note - This was posted in 10/2013 (when concurrency was ~4x what it is today)

  14. #234
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigErkyKid View Post
    Check up the survey and the post with the conclusions. It is there!

    They didn't say they wanted max xp/min because they weren't asked about it. They said they wanted class balance and no flavor vs power builds.
    So rolling up a character will be like swinging blindfolded at a piñata. Doesn't matter what you clicked on or what the class icon is, they will all have awesome heals and DPS. This is how DDO should be balanced?

    Green elf, needs food badly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    We are no more d000m'd then we were a week ago. Note - This was posted in 10/2013 (when concurrency was ~4x what it is today)

  15. #235
    Community Member Blackheartox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    So 500 is not 500?



    Already explained this, but Ill do so again. Game balance DDO failed. Continuously nerfing everything that people complained about failed. Welcome to play experience passed DDO. People got what they demanded in the past, not having to wait 30 minutes for a group of having to rely on clerics for heals. Constant nerfs in the name of game balance is not as marketable as a fun play experience is.
    I would be fully ok with what they do chai, if they just did it faster.

    I mean no disrespect toward turbine, but its just to slow.
    Look at the mess we have now, defacto barbs palies and bards are strong.
    Casters fell off since undead content doesnt synergize well with some casters and construcst just purely suck as caster.
    THey pushed barbs, palies n bards and made list of stuff they will change.

    Ok, all cool but do i really need to wait for 8 more months before they fix druid?
    10 months before they make kensei ok?
    A year and half before they add third sorc tree?

    I mean srsly, it is very very bad what they do.
    If i for example like rogue and see the current change that really brings nothing to rogues to be on par with current super classes, why would i play ddo ?
    Since i know that next rougue buff is upcoming in late 2017 or early 2018?
    I hope you get what i mean, they do their work to slow that i would agree with you.
    Ok, buffing all, making everyhint selfsustainable uber dps and never giving any content to challenge you that involves new mechanics, but only more hp to beat on.
    Ok lets get around that and say ok wel forgive them.
    But why do they change rogue to be so weak even after the pass?
    What to expect in future?
    That barbs palies and bards still dominate without a nerf to their op stuff, and just get along with the wave of, everything is good

    If only they simply did their work faster.
    Last edited by Blackheartox; 03-30-2015 at 03:16 PM.

  16. #236
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackheartox View Post
    I would be fully ok with what they do chai, if they just did it faster.

    I mean no disrespect toward turbine, but its just to slow.
    Look at the mess we have now, defacto barbs palies and bards are strong.
    Casters fell off since undead content doesnt synergize well with some casters and construcst just purely suck as caster.
    THey pushed barbs, palies n bards and made list of stuff they will change.

    Ok, all cool but do i really need to wait for 8 more months before they fix druid?
    10 months before they make kensei ok?
    A year and half before they add third sorc tree?

    I mean srsly, it is very very bad what they do.
    If i for example like rogue and see the current change that really brings nothing to rogues to be on par with current super classes, why would i play ddo ?
    Since i know that next rougue buff is upcoming in late 2017 or early 2018?
    I hope you get what i mean, they do their work to slow that i would agree with you.
    Ok, buffing all, making everyhint selfsustainable uber dps and never giving any content to challenge you that involves new mechanics, but only more hp to beat on.
    Ok lets get around that and say ok wel forgive them.
    But why do they change rogue to be so weak even after the pass?
    What to expect in future?
    That barbs palies and bards still dominate without a nerf to their op stuff, and just get along with the wave of, everything is good
    I agree for the most part.

    Bards and paladins were nerfed already however. The reason rogues cant be as powerful is because the same people argued for nerfs after each revamp. If rogues were made as powerful those folks would demand nerfs to it as well. Kind of made their own bed on that unfortunately. Be careful what we ask for and all that.

    As far as too slow - limited resources. Do we want no content for a year while they do nothing but revamp classes? Or do we want content during that time.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    We are no more d000m'd then we were a week ago. Note - This was posted in 10/2013 (when concurrency was ~4x what it is today)

  17. #237
    Community Member Tinco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    Bards and paladins were nerfed already however.
    A (major) bugfix and a token nerf? Again, be careful what you construct an implication from, this one is pretty self-serving and without much evidence...
    The best days are the days you don't have to wear socks or shoes.

  18. #238
    Community Member Thrudh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    Yep, 500 apples = 500 apples.
    You were talking about cleric and PM auras and comparing them to spells. 60 apples does not equal 500 apples.

    Scroll using rogues fail concentration checks, quickened spells do not. 0 apples does not equal 500 apples.

    It's impossible for me to make this any simpler. 60 apples does not equal 500 apples.

    Throw in DPS loss from scroll healing and now we're comparing oranges and apples. But that might blow your mind, so I've decided not to go there anymore...

    Have a nice day, Chai.
    Last edited by Thrudh; 03-30-2015 at 03:38 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    We are no more d000m'd then we were a week ago. Note - This was posted in 10/2013
    Quote Originally Posted by Eth View Post
    When you stop caring about xp/min this game becomes really fun. Trust me.
    Quote Originally Posted by TedSandyman View Post
    Some people brag about how fast they finished the game. I cant think of a stupider thing to brag about. Or in this game, going from level 1 to level 30 in two days, or however long it takes. I can't even begin to imagine what drives a person to think that is fun. You are ignoring all of the content and options and going for sheer speed. It is like going to a museum and bragging about how fast you made it through. Or bragging about how fast you finished a good steak.

  19. #239
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudh View Post
    You were talking about cleric and PM auras and comparing them to spells. 60 apples does not equal 500 apples.
    60? LOL not with todays heal amp sorry.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudh View Post
    Scroll using rogues fail concentration checks, quickened spells do not. 0 apples does not equal 500 apples.
    Again with the scrolls. Youre not considering the other possibilities in place with todays heal amp.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudh View Post
    It's impossible for me to make this any simpler. 60 apples does not equal 500 apples.
    How you arrived at 60 is flawed

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudh View Post
    Throw in DPS loss from scroll healing and now we're comparing oranges and apples. But that might blow your mind, so I've decided not to go there anymore...
    Compared to what, the even more DPS loss from character death?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudh View Post
    Yep, I made the right choice to stop going there.
    You certainly did, as the explanation offered lacks context of todays DDO. 60 points - yeah, back in 2011 maybe.

    For the objective reader - Calc the average unmodified tick of a CSW then compare to the unmodified tick of a RS heal aura. Then add in all the same mods for both. You will clearly see that if someone can get their CSW as high as your OP example which is being over reacted to, then they can also get a heal aura to the point where they do not have to cast other spells to stay alive. With the capstone, my moderately geared permadeath RS cleric gets radiant aura ticks near 200. He doesn't have anywhere near the heal amp which would be considered max or approaching max, but does have some.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudh View Post
    Have a nice day, Chai.
    Will do.
    Last edited by Chai; 03-30-2015 at 03:32 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    We are no more d000m'd then we were a week ago. Note - This was posted in 10/2013 (when concurrency was ~4x what it is today)

  20. #240
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    Citation needed on this.

    Im pretty positive every single player is not worried about xp / min and timed completions. This is over argued on the forums quite a bit, but seen very little in game.
    I'm really starting to worry that the world may be ending. First Chai agrees with something I posted and now I'm finding that I agree with Chai -- with the sentiment if not the exact wording.

    I guess I'll prolong life on the planet for a while longer by observing that it probably isn't every single player -- but really, its just because I don't want the earth to explode.

    Most of the feedback I've gotten in threads lately has been to tell me that the ultra elitist EE mentality doesn't apply to the game right now. So I find it incredibly hard to believe that the players are asking for flavor builds to disappear -- even in the forums.

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